Mrs Fenn and that crying child incident revisited.

[Estuarine]

Nice post j.rob take a bow 


Re the Tapas 7 and the reconstitution : if you haven't the read the docs on the link it is well worth it when you are short of laughs.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id279.html

[Redblossom]

The Tapas group said they were checking on their kids every 15/20/30 minutes, "just to make sure no one was crying".....you would think if Mrs Fenn heard this crying for so long that night, one of them would have heard it on their checks either from outside or inside and wondered if it was one of their group which were all housed right close by, but no one mentioned anythng like this...unless they were all in their flats by 10.30 when it started and knew it wasnt one of their own ....when KM said it wasnt Madeleine, did she not think to say,but I did heaR some child crying,but it wasnt Madeleine....if Mrs Fenn heard it and said it was from the floor below well either KM or GM doing their checks, on the floor below,will have heard it better IMO

[jassi]

The Tapas group said they were checking on their kids every 15/20/30 minutes, "just to make sure no one was crying".....you would think if Mrs Fenn heard this crying for so long that night, one of them would have heard it on their checks either from outside or inside and wondered if it was one of their group which were all housed right close by, but no one mentioned anythng like this...unless they were all in their flats by 10.30 when it started and knew it wasnt one of their own ....when KM said it wasnt Madeleine, did she not think to say,but I did heaR some child crying,but it wasnt Madeleine....if Mrs Fenn heard it and said it was from the floor below well either KM or GM doing their checks, on the floor below,will have heard it better IMO

Yes, this makes a nonsense of their claim of doing regular checks.

[Redblossom]

Yes, this makes a nonsense of their claim of doing regular checks.

Quite....and the not hearing anything..and the fact they all decided to play musical chairs every night whilst at the same time trying to have a relaxing dinner and drinks...was the night creche really such a worse idea? Where safety would not be an issue and the worse that could happen is their kids waking up whilst being taken home..oh well

[AnneGuedes]

It may be possible even now to obtain phone records, and look for the 10pm call from witness PF to friend..
Probably landline to landline so its only one phone company to ask.
That should determine whether it was Tue 10pm or Wed 10pm.

Who should do that ? SY ? As if the PJ didn't ? 

[AnneGuedes]

According to the cleaner one of the cots was in the parents bedroom on Wed. That isn't in their statements either.

They said it wasn't true. It's one person's word against another's.

[Lace]

Yes, this makes a nonsense of their claim of doing regular checks.

Kate McCann said it couldn't have been Madeleine crying as they were in the apartment.   Wasn't that the night of the quiz?

[AnneGuedes]

The strange thing is the Maddie crying comments. Almost as if they were meant to  suggest that Mrs Fenn had the date wrong.

Yes, it has been long thought that the crying episode, in fact so single that the McCanns mentioned it many times to the PJ, was invented to challenge Mrs Fenn's credibility.
And who sees some posters recurrently questioning Mrs Fenn's mental state actually finds this hypothesis plausible.
But how could they know that Mrs Fenn had heard a child for 75 minutes ?
Alerted MW telling the McCanns is a pure supposition.

[Benice]

Not quite sure why it is always other people lying in the McCann case and never the McCanns and their friends. They seem to be happy to go around claiming that anyone who does not agree with them are liars. I suppose it is the classic defence position. You accuse those who do not collude with you of doing what you yourself have done. It is designed to disarm, over-power and confuse. And, don't forget, Gerry likes confusion as: 'non-one knows what's true and what's not'. Well, there it is from the horses mouth.

Whose testimony do the McCanns ignore/cast doubt on/claim are lies.

Mrs Fenn - who Kate shouts at.

Murat - who four of the McCann party claim they saw near the apartment the night Madeleine disappeared. Many other witnesses did not see him that night including the police. He was not there but at home with his mother. Did the four friends of the McCanns who claim he was there have bad eye-sight, collective amnesia or did they lie?

Friends and relatives of the McCanns told the press that the shutters had been broken or jemmied open implying the abductor had forced an entry into the apartment in order to abduct Madeleine. Resort staff refute this. There was no sign of a break-in. So who lied over a break-in?

Jane Tanner, at the earliest stage, claims she saw a suspect with a child. The McCann's and all the group put huge emphasis on this 'sighting' believing he may be Madeleine's abductor. On page 97 Kate writes that what Jane saw 'was in all likelihood Madeleine being carried off. There is no evidence whatsoever for this. Why were the McCanns and their friends so determined to focus on  this sighting which the Portugese police always found unconvincing? Were certain people lying in order to advance a story?

A sighting at 10pm by an Irishman which later came to light (and, given that it is given by someone who does not know they McCanns rather than a friend is likely to carry less bias) describes a different looking man with a different appearance carrying a child in a different way. There is no particular reason to think it might be the same man but Kate in her book claims: 'the similarities speak for themselves'. Why would Kate be so keen to suggest that the later sighting by the Irishman was likely to be the same man that Jane Tanner saw. There is no reason to suppose it was, especially as the manner of holding the child was so different.

Kate and Gerry are suing the detective who was taken off the case, Amaral, for libel. Amaral believed that the McCanns covered-up Madeleine's disappearance with a story about an abduction. If you read Kate's book, you can see that their abduction by a stranger story does not carry any weight. There is no logic to it, no evidence for it and the circumstances surrounding it were dramatically embellished by the McCann's and their friends. Yet they claim they were not there when the child disappeared. They cannot have it both ways. They either had nothing to do it and do not know. Or they do have something to do it and do know. They have stuck themselves in a double bind.

Medical records of Madeleine's were with-held from the police. Why?

Kate refused to answer questions put to her by the police. Why?

The apartment was immaculate as though it had been scrubbed clean so few DNA markers. Why?

Why did the McCanns not search for Madeleine throughout the night she disappeared? Other people did.

They and their friends did not come back to do a re-enactment. Why?

Why did Kate leave the twins in the apartment to raise the alarm given that she thought an intruder had taken Madeleine? Her behaviour is not consistent with this belief.

Why did the McCanns not wake up the twins? Check they were okay and not drugged.

The McCanns claim that they thought the abductor could have drugged all the children. Why did they not then have toxicology tests done on the twins? The fact that these were only done when it was too late to get a result and the twins hair was shorter suggests they did not want to find a result and/or their claim that an abductor drugged their children was not true.

I could go on, and many others have, in a similar vein. None of it adds up. The list of people threatened with libel suits by the McCann's via their legal representatives grows longer. There are very many people who do not believe the McCanns version of events. They believe that the McCanns have lied and they are very suspicious of the use of the Fund money.

In view of the above - do  you not wonder why SY have ruled the McCanns out as suspects and believe an abduction took place?    There must be a reason why they don't see things your way?

Could it be because the myths, disinformation, rumour, distorted facts etc etc which have  been woven into this case since 2007  are simply of no interest to them - no matter how many times members of the public choose to repeat them  -  and that they already know the answers to the questions you ask and are quite satisfied with them? 

You would think that if the McCanns and their friends were the prolific liars you seem to think they are that at least one of them would have been 'exposed' by a professional team of experienced policemen whose whole time is dedicated to this one case - and yet after studying the evidence and no doubt having interviewed those people, they have apparently come  to the opposite conclusion.   

So who is right - you or SY?  It's no contest IMO.   

[AnneGuedes]

In view of the above - do  you not wonder why SY have ruled the McCanns out as suspects and believe an abduction took place?    There must be a reason why they don't see things your way?

Benice, unless you're able to provide a reliable source for SY stating that the abduction was a fact, isn't it better to keep speaking of a disappearance ?

[Benice]

Benice, unless you're able to provide a reliable source for SY stating that the abduction was a fact, isn't it better to keep speaking of a disappearance ?

DCI Redwood is the source of that belief.   How more reliable can you get? 

Can you provide evidence that SY does NOT believe Madeleine was abducted?

[AnneGuedes]

You would think that if the McCanns and their friends were the prolific liars you seem to think they are that at least one of them would have been 'exposed' by a professional team of experienced policemen whose whole time is dedicated to this one case - and yet after studying the evidence and no doubt having interviewed those people, they have apparently come  to the opposite conclusion. 

Can you provide a reliable source for this, Benice ?

[AnneGuedes]

DCI Redwood is the source of that belief.   How more reliable can you get? 

Can you provide evidence that SY does NOT believe Madeleine was abducted?

No ! On the belief topic, there's no evidence possible !
You know perfectly that DCI Redwood never stated that Madeleine was abducted. If he believes so, good for him, but it's a belief, not a fact.
You have an unfortunate tendency to present it as a fact, for instance by recurrently speaking of abduction instead of disappearance, which is the only known fact, up to now.
I find it unfair.

[Benice]

Can you provide a reliable source for this, Benice ?

No I can't Anne, but common sense dictates that interviewing the McCanns and their friends in person, face to face, would be the first thing the policeman in charge of the case and other senior members of the team would want to do.     Can you think of any reason why he would want to avoid doing that?  What benefit to the case would there be in NOT personally interviewing people who you need to satisfy yourself are credible witnesses?   I'm also sure SY will have interviewed the FLO's and the trauma counsellors as well  - and for the same reason. 

 

[Benice]

No ! On the belief topic, there's no evidence possible !
You know perfectly that DCI Redwood never stated that Madeleine was abducted. If he believes so, good for him, but it's a belief, not a fact.
You have an unfortunate tendency to present it as a fact, for instance by recurrently speaking of abduction instead of disappearance, which is the only known fact, up to now.
I find it unfair.

Not true.  Read my posts again.   I have used the word 'belief' - you have used the word 'fact'.

Quote from DCI Redwood

''We have conducted a forensic analysis of the timelines and there is clearly opportunity there for Madeleine McCann to have been removed from that apartment alive''
End quote.

DCI Redwood has also said that although they believe Madeleine was abducted, they do not know whether she is still alive or not as a result of that abduction.

The Crimewatch programme was all about 'abduction'. 

Please provide your evidence that SY do NOT believe an abduction took place.