Author Topic: Lets review the evidence which convicted Jeremy Bamber.  (Read 38257 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Lets review the evidence which convicted Jeremy Bamber.
« on: January 21, 2014, 04:25:49 PM »
OMG Thought Grahame and Mat put paid to this but its back with a vengeance:

The very nature of conspiracies such as this though is that those involved play their part when necessary. There are only two options in this case really.
       Either JB is innocent and was framed as part of a conspiracy or JB is guilty and the discrepancies and anomalies in the case are because police were duped by a manipulative and convincing psychopath.
       There is no middle ground where Jeremy is innocent and his finding of guilt is down to honest mistakes.
       If you believe that Bamber was framed then by extension you also believe that there were co conspirators involved and therefore that all of those involved in the conspiracy have much to lose should the truth ever be revealed.

Why cant it be a MoJ with flawed group thinking and herd mentality.  The prosecution's case was built around the silencer and I agree the finding of the silencer and all that went with it leaves more questions than answers.  The silencer as an exhibit would never get inside a court of law today.  It was this and this alone that convicted JB.  Without it he would have walked.

       We all are aware of the destruction of much evidence in 1996 and how this prevented DNA testing of exhibits, coincidentally just at  the time of great developments in DNA testing. This looks suspicious anyway but on it's own even more so. If you were amongst the conspirators then you would be afraid of this new development knowing that it would expose your plot and your role in the conspiracy.

Even if the exhibits hadn't been destroyed it's likely any evidential value would have been lost through contamination rendering any dna testing on other exhibits as useless

        If however a couple of books and various newspaper articles preceded this destruction then the idea of a manipulative psychopath looking for loopholes and blaming police and relatives for framing him
becomes fixed in the mind of the public who largely believe whatever narrative is given to them by the media and the authorities.

Who would orchestrate the anti JB propaganda machine?  Yes perhaps in the case of Julian Assange or some anti-establishment figure or something or someone that could damage national interest, but JB...Why?  I think the public are little more sceptical and discerning than you give them credit for.

      The destruction of evidence can then be portrayed in a different light. Instead of the conspirators covering up their plot, it can now be portrayed as Bamber the arch manipulator, with one failed appeal and the COLP investigation already behind him attempting to muddy the waters by suggesting the destroyed evidence would clear him. The conspirators are then able to trot out their meme about Bamber, the evil manipulative psychopath who duped the police into not investigating properly, as a malevolent puppet master controlling his gullible supporters.
      Imagine for a moment that you are one of those involved in this gross perversion of justice believing that your work is done and that Bamber is now locked away with his appeal already failed and you are home and dry . With the great strides being made at this time in DNA testing, you would be well aware that the advances in forensic techniques would blow your conspiracy wide open if the evidence still held were to be tested, so it would be beneficial to you if this evidence were to be taken out of the equation.

See above re DNA

        It would also be in your interests to have as much negative publicity as possible about Bamber in the public mind so as to propagate the idea that the evidence was somehow legitimately destroyed. Cue a couple of books and newspaper articles which tell of how those who "knew" him believe him guilty; throw in a few embellished accounts from the same sources of his inherent evil to fix in the public mind the picture of a controlling evil  psychopath . Add in the failed appeal and COLP investigation and you are able to paint the picture of JB clutching at straws.
        This makes it much easier for EP to claim that the evidence was not thought relevant anymore hence it's destruction . Instead of disposing of incriminating evidence against themselves , EP have now managed to convince enough people that there was no relevance in the evidence destroyed and that JB is just using whatever he can to win his freedom and get away with murder. Without the books and negative reporting many more people would have been suspicious of this action by EP .
         EP would be keen to convince the public of Bamber's turpitude to divert attention from their own and other conspirators malevolence.
         One need only think back to Hillsborough to see how police and press collude to protect their own interests and get their retaliation in first when events threaten to work against them.
        Again this is another reason why knowing the background of a writer is important because for all we know Claire Powell could be a ghostwriter employed by EP . I am of the opinion that the books by Wilkes and the mysterious Powell did not happen in a vacuum and that there is nefarious intent behind them quite likely sponsored by those with an interest in hiding the truth.

As I said on another thread I read the books and was then even more convinced of JB's innocence.  Powell was equally negative about Sheila.

Why cant it just be a perfect storm eg rellies not wanting estate going to a non-blood relly, scorned girlfriend given immunity from criminal past, shoddy police investigation, lazy media, bungling judiciary, incompetent expert witnesses, JB having no family support to support his MoJ, JB as scapegoat as he was adopted and went to boarding school and therefore he must have done it coz I don't know anyone who was adopted and went to boarding school and it sounds weird so he must be weird and must have dun it.  The End.


102
« Last Edit: January 30, 2015, 01:07:18 AM by John »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lets review the evidence which convicted Jeremy Bamber.
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2014, 05:05:59 PM »
I read somewhere, I think, that Claire Powell who wrote 'Murder at White House Farm' worked for the BBC.  Is this her?

http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/claire-powell/17/2b0/176
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Andrea

Re: Lets review the evidence which convicted Jeremy Bamber.
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2014, 06:29:29 PM »
Holly, i know you believe Bamber is innocent.

Can you explain how Sheila was able to cause the carnage in WHF and not have a mark on her?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lets review the evidence which convicted Jeremy Bamber.
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2014, 08:32:48 PM »
Holly, i know you believe Bamber is innocent.

Can you explain how Sheila was able to cause the carnage in WHF and not have a mark on her?

Hiya Andrea

Well as far as I'm aware JB had no marks either.

I think it's quite possible that SC was in the kitchen (or elsewhere) with NB and with SC in possession of the gun waving it about with threats to kill herself or others that NB thinks he can handle. NB phones JB.  Meanwhile SC goes upstairs and shoots June rendering her defenceless.  NB drops the phone and runs upstairs and is himself shot.  Despite managing to get downstairs he is already mortally wounded by the 4 or 5 shots (bullet allocation) in and outside the bedroom.  Once in the kitchen he stumbles knocking into things and heads for his comfort zone - his favourite chair  8(8-)) where he is shot another 3 or 4 times (bullet allocation).  If blows rained down on NB with the gun things could easily have been broken and moved eg crockery, light fitting, chairs, tables etc and/or raid team could have caused. 

I don't go in for police wrongdoing on a grand scale and/or conspiracy theories but I do believe that mistakes were made and I don't place much reliance on anything from the soc eg sugar spill, chairs up turned etc.  Burly armed police officers all pumped up knocking the door down all apprehensive about what they were to find were not going to be wiping their feet before entering  8(0(*

I feel a drubbing coming on  8)><( 8)><(  Is this where you and puglove put on a united front and duff me up  8)><( 8)><(
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline sika

Re: Lets review the evidence which convicted Jeremy Bamber.
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2014, 09:46:40 PM »
Hiya Andrea

Well as far as I'm aware JB had no marks either.

I think it's quite possible that SC was in the kitchen (or elsewhere) with NB and with SC in possession of the gun waving it about with threats to kill herself or others that NB thinks he can handle. NB phones JB.  Meanwhile SC goes upstairs and shoots June rendering her defenceless.  NB drops the phone and runs upstairs and is himself shot.  Despite managing to get downstairs he is already mortally wounded by the 4 or 5 shots (bullet allocation) in and outside the bedroom.  Once in the kitchen he stumbles knocking into things and heads for his comfort zone - his favourite chair  8(8-)) where he is shot another 3 or 4 times (bullet allocation).  If blows rained down on NB with the gun things could easily have been broken and moved eg crockery, light fitting, chairs, tables etc and/or raid team could have caused. 

I don't go in for police wrongdoing on a grand scale and/or conspiracy theories but I do believe that mistakes were made and I don't place much reliance on anything from the soc eg sugar spill, chairs up turned etc.  Burly armed police officers all pumped up knocking the door down all apprehensive about what they were to find were not going to be wiping their feet before entering  8(0(*

I feel a drubbing coming on  8)><( 8)><(  Is this where you and puglove put on a united front and duff me up  8)><( 8)><(
Now, why would you think that?  Do you really believe in what you've just posted?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lets review the evidence which convicted Jeremy Bamber.
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2014, 11:10:10 PM »
Now, why would you think that?  Do you really believe in what you've just posted?

Show me the error of my ways...

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline John

Re: Lets review the evidence which convicted Jeremy Bamber.
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2014, 01:32:15 AM »
You forgot to mention that Nevill struggled with his assailant Holly.  Do you really believe a petite Sheila clad only in a nightdress could have taken on an angry man over 6' tall and bleeding profusely and not ended up with a single mark or a spot of his blood on her?  Not to mention shoot and reload the rifle three times yet never cracked a nail?  Also none of Sheila's fingerprints on any bullets.
 
What about the soles of her feet?  The kitchen floor was strewn with small glass shards as a consequence of a glass lampshade being smashed in the struggle yet Sheila's feet were both free from glass or cuts.  Sheila's naked footprints were not found in the kitchen.

It's interesting you mention the silencer, if Mike Tesko is to believed there were three.  Lets consider the one you refer to in your post.  DNA analysis wasn't available in 1985 so the trial had to rely on blood grouping and enzyme analysis.  It was determined that the blood on the silencer and the blood found within the silencer was human (not animal) and could have been Sheila's. This formed the basis of the Crown case.

A few years later a sample taken from the baffles deep inside the silencer was tested using DNA analysis and returned a 13 marker match to Sheila.  Although this falls below the 20 marker threshold required for a conviction in the UK it proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the blood did belong to Sheila.  The chance of that DNA belonging to anyone else is something like 1 in 10,000,000    To remind the reader, the significance of this is that the only way Sheila's DNA could have got so far into the silencer is if she was shot using it.  Sheila was shot twice in the neck, the end of the silencer almost  touching her skin.  The suction following the shots drew minute particles of blood into the silencer where it was deposited on baffles and later recovered by forensic scientists using the latest techniques.

The point in all of this is simple, whoever shot Sheila unscrewed the silencer from the rifle when they realised that with it fitted the weapon was too long for Sheila to have used it to shoot herself in the neck.  The silencer was found a few days after the murder in a shelf inside a gun cabinet.

Maybe you can address these points Holly?

 
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 11:56:12 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Lets review the evidence which convicted Jeremy Bamber.
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2014, 01:50:37 PM »
You forgot to mention that Nevillnstruggled with his assailant Holly.  Do you really believe a petite Sheila clad only in a nightdress could have taken on an angry man over 6' tall and bleeding profusely and not ended up with a single mark or a spot of his blood on her?  Not to mention shoot and reload the rifle three times yet never cracked a nail?  Also none of Sheila's fingerprints on any bullets.

NB was badly injured in the bedroom with two wounds causing substantial blood loss internally and externally and extreme pain; along with another wound causing total impairment of his left arm.  By the time he reached the kitchen I don't believe he was capable of engaging in a struggle with anyone. SC may not have worn the nightdress she was found in throughout the above.  A typical female will carry out hundreds of activities during the course of her lifetime ranging from domestic chores to childcare to recreational activities.  All can be performed without any damage to nails.  I do not see loading and using a gun anymore hazardous to nails.  None of JB's fingerprints on bullets either?
 
What about the soles of her feet?  The kitchen floor was strewn with small glass shards as a consequence of a glass lampshade being smashed in the struggle yet Sheila's feet were both free from glass or cuts.  Sheila's naked footprints were not found in the kitchen.

Did the lampshade produce small chards or a few broken pieces?  When/how was it broken?  Why would her footprints be found in the kitchen?  Blood appears to have pooled around NB only?

It's interesting you mention the silencer, if Mike Tesko is to believed there were three.  Lets consider the one you refer to in your post.  DNA analysis wasn't available in 1985 so the trial had to rely on blood grouping and enzyme analysis.  It was determined that the blood on the silencer and the blood found within the silencer was human (not animal) and could have been Sheila's. This formed the basis of the Crown case.

Mike Tesko says a lot of things, doesn't mean I agree with all of them. Yes I agree Sheila's blood COULDhave been in the silencer but COULD isn't good enough for me.  It COULD have belonged to a.n other.  The judge misled the jury into thinking there was no COULD about it. It also seems to be taken as a given that if it was Sheila's blood it was produced by back spatter alone and not deposited by way of contamination at a later stage

A few years later a sample taken from the baffles deep inside the silencer was tested using DNA analysis and returned a 13 marker match to Sheila.  Although this falls below the 20 marker threshold required for a conviction in the UK it proves beyond a reasonable doubt that the blood did belong to Sheila.  The chance of that DNA belonging to anyone else is something like 1 in 10,000,000    To remind the reader, the significance of this is that the only way Sheila's DNA could have got so far into the silencer is if she was shot using it.  Sheila was shot twice in the neck, the end of the silencer almost  touching her skin.  The suction following the shots drew minute particles of blood into the silencer where it was deposited on baffles and later recovered by forensic scientists using the latest techniques.

LCN-DNA is incapable of identifying the source of DNA eg blood.  The three appeal court judges agreed with the scientists representing prosecution and defence that SC's DNA MAY have been in the silencer and that June's DNA was definitely present.  However as contamination could not be ruled out the DNA analysis was deemed "utterly meaningless" by the three appeal court judges.  The suction known as back spatter is interesting as I understand it is a rare phenomenon.  When it does occur the following are usually contributory factors: large calibre weapon, direct contact shot, head shot and accompanying skin tissue.  None of these factors apply in this case? 

The point in all of this is simple, whoever shot Sheila unscrewed the silencer from the rifle when they realised that with it fitted the weapon was too long for Sheila to have used it to shoot herself in the neck.  The silencer was found a few days after the murder in a shelf inside a gun cabinet.

I don't believe the silencer ever left the cupboard.  If it did then why was none of Nicholas' blood found in it; he was the only victim to suffer a direct contact shot.  Why was no accompanying skin tissue found?  Yet a "blob of blood" was found on the outside with a grey hair attached?

Maybe you can address these points Holly?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 11:56:40 PM by John »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline John

Re: Lets review the evidence which convicted Jeremy Bamber.
« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2014, 04:35:25 PM »
Thanks for the full response above Holly but I'm afraid some are far of the mark and don't equate with the evidence.

1.  Nevill was shot a total of 8 times, five of which relate to the bedroom and upstairs landing and three relate to the kitchen.  All evidenced by the dispersal of the empty shells. According to the pathologist he put up a brave struggle with his assailant again evidenced by the damage to the rifle stock and the various items strewn around, smashed lampshade etc.  Nevill was effectively beaten up something which Sheila could not have done, she loved and adored her father, Jeremy hated him.

No other nightdress or any other garment were found in the house with blood spatter on them, your comment is simply wishful thinking.  Jeremy Bamber wore gloves but one fell off at one stage...at least this is what he told Julie Mugford.

2.  The lampshade was smashed with shards and pieces of all sizes being spread all over the floor.  The assailants boots crunched the glass into the flooring...this was not achieved by a bare footed woman.  The lampshade was smashed when Nevill fought with his attacker as both struggled with the rifle.  It can only be surmised that the assailant resorted to beating Nevill when he ran out of bullets.

3. There is no way Sheila's DNA could have got on the baffles by contamination since Sheila  never had any other contact with it.  The contamination argument simply does not stand up to scrutiny.  June's DNA was not found in the silencer.

4. The judges were bound by the law relating to DNA markers. The unequivocal fact is that the DNA markers found in the silencer did not belong to any other member of the family.  Sheila had no genetic link to anyone except her twin sons.  No one else had access to the silencer, it was bought new and only used by Jeremy.  As I have stated, the chance that the DNA found in the silencer belonged to anyone else is so remote as to be not worthy of serious consideration.


A final point worth noting is that Nevill was supposed to have used the phone.  Given his injuries from the initial assault upstairs he would not have been able to speak properly, Jeremy never mentioned this in his version of what happened which proves he made it all up. There would have been blood all over the phone and the sideboard had Nevill used the phone, again, no blood was found on or near the phone or the sideboard.

In addition, according to the pathologist Sheila was stunned by the first shot to her neck. The bullet fragmented and left her effectively paralysed.  She was semi conscious and could never have taken a second shot.  There was no blood smear on her neck, no blood on her fingers, no blood on the rifle trigger and no blood spatter caused by coughing up blood from her shattered throat.

I'm afraid that whichever way you look at it the evidence points to Jeremy being the shooter.  There isn't a single piece of evidence which can implicate Sheila. The testimony of the other witnesses simply adds to the plot.  If Jeremy were ever to be retried I have no doubt a jury would convict him all over again.

« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 11:58:02 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline simong

Re: Lets review the evidence which convicted Jeremy Bamber.
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2014, 06:08:58 PM »
Got to dispute point 1 John. I don't think the shell case positions are reliable. Nevills four head shots were fired in pairs according to the trajectory of the bullets. There is a diagram floating around showing the trajectory. The damage caused by one of the head shots would have rendered him dead or near to death. He was certainly not going to be moving anywhere voluntarily after any one of those shots. All of them entered his brain and caused severe damage. This must have happened in the kitchen. The shell case on the stairs has been moved from the kitchen.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 06:10:59 PM by simong »

Offline simong

Re: Lets review the evidence which convicted Jeremy Bamber.
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2014, 06:55:52 PM »
I don't know why JB's assorted legal teams over the years have never looked at the trajectory of bullets in more depth. It must be possible by studying the crime scene photos and through measurements of the various rooms to establish the height at which they were fired from. Not sure what the height of Sheila and Jeremy were/ are but if there is a significant difference, establishing who fired the gun to a fair degree of certainty must be possible. Of course, JB's legal teams may have done this and not liked the results!

Offline John

Re: Lets review the evidence which convicted Jeremy Bamber.
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2014, 08:10:38 PM »
Got to dispute point 1 John. I don't think the shell case positions are reliable. Nevill's four head shots were fired in pairs according to the trajectory of the bullets. There is a diagram floating around showing the trajectory. The damage caused by one of the head shots would have rendered him dead or near to death. He was certainly not going to be moving anywhere voluntarily after any one of those shots. All of them entered his brain and caused severe damage. This must have happened in the kitchen. The shell case on the stairs has been moved from the kitchen.

The shell casing positions are reliable in that what possible reason would anyone have to move them?  The only questionable one for me was the casing which ended up on the stairs. There is no way to determine bullet trajectory, all we can establish is roughly where the gunman was when each bullet was discharged.

According to the pathologist the head and shoulder shots which Nevill sustained on attempting to exit the bedroom were not debilitating.  His mouth and jaw were damaged, not his skull, this would have limited his ability to speak properly, he certainly wasn't making any phone calls summoning help.  He was able to walk down the stairs leaving blood on the wallpaper as he went.  He was able to confront his attacker again in the kitchen where he was beaten with the rifle stock before being executed.

The final three/four shots which killed him were delivered as he lay slumped in the kitchen easy chair.  I agree there is every possibility the casing found on the stairs could have been carried on the sole of someones boot.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2014, 11:49:42 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Andrea

Re: Lets review the evidence which convicted Jeremy Bamber.
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2014, 08:22:23 PM »
Hi holly.

As for JB not having any marks on him, he would have been fully clothed. A jumper to cover his arms, maybe gloves.

Sheila was bare footed and sleevless. There was no blood down her front which suggests she didnt move after the first shot. She didnt have anyone elses blood on her either.

Even Mike Tesco knows Sheila didnt kill herself, he just thinks the coppers did it.

Offline John

Re: Lets review the evidence which convicted Jeremy Bamber.
« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2014, 08:28:54 PM »
Hi holly.

As for JB not having any marks on him, he would have been fully clothed. A jumper to cover his arms, maybe gloves.

Sheila was bare footed and sleevless. There was no blood down her front which suggests she didnt move after the first shot. She didnt have anyone elses blood on her either.

Even Mike Tesco knows Sheila didnt kill herself, he just thinks the coppers did it.

Good points Andrea.  And not forgetting the abandoned wet suit found on the farm which some suggest the killer might have worn before washing and discarding it.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Andrea

Re: Lets review the evidence which convicted Jeremy Bamber.
« Reply #14 on: January 22, 2014, 08:47:05 PM »
JB went to WHF prepared. There is no way Sheila could have shot them all and not end up with another persons blood on her.

Jb probably dumped the clothes he was wearing or washed them, his home wasnt searched for nearly a month after the murders, thats plenty of time to get rid of any incriminating evidence.