Author Topic: A child abducted yet nobody thought to phone the police immediately?  (Read 78490 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Anna

Re: A child abducted yet nobody thought to phone the police immediately?
« Reply #120 on: March 19, 2014, 12:50:43 AM »
You are perpetuating  a myth 

The police did  NOT   "fail to arrive for 50 minutes"  ...  they were not contacted until 10.41pm,  and arrived at the scene less than 20 minutes later  (  phone records establish that fact without question  ) 

Here's the thing though

When Matthew Oldfield returned from reception  KNOWING  that the police had  NOT  been called  ( and  he makes it  perfectly  clear in his regotary statement that he was fully aware that the police had not been contacted at that point  )   did he tell the McCanns,  or not  ? 

Did he go back to the apartment and tell Kate and Gerry that the receptionist had advised they do a more thorough  search  before   contacting the police    ( and that he had accepted that advice  ) 

You'd think he would,  wouldn't you  ?  ...  you think he'd relay that information back to the McCanns wouldn't you  ?   

Or did Matthew Oldfield,   for some inexplicable reason,  decide not to mention that his request for the police to be called had been   rejected by the OC receptionist  ?

Revised translation.

Processos Volume II

Pages 331 - 333

Witness Statement

Vitor Manuel dos Santos

Date/Time: 2007/05/07 11H00

Occupation: Head of Accommodation

Place of Work: Ocean Club


He comes to the process as a witness. He has worked as Head of Accommodation at the resort for seven years, but has been employed there for the past 18 years.

His functions are the management of bookings and the control of contracts whether with private individuals or travel agencies. He is responsible for the management and supervision of the reception.

As concerns the facts being investigated, he says he received the McCann booking as normal and he points out that this reservation was made by Mark Warner, whose representative is John Hill.

He says that it is normal for each reservation to make specifications and that in this case in concrete a request was made that the four families should be accommodated close to each other and a ground floor apartment was requested enabling easy access for the families with small children.

He adds that this family booked from 28th April to 5th May on a half board basis, in other words, breakfast and dinner. For dinner the guests could choose between two options, the Tapas and the Millenium and although the meals are identical, the clients choose the restaurant according to its proximity to their accommodation.

In this case in concrete, the rational choice for dinner would be the Tapas restaurant as it is 100 metres distance from the apartment, whilst the Millenium is situated 600 metres away.

The witness states that from the restaurant it is possible to see the apartment including the window of the living room and the bedroom where the parents slept. The bedroom where the three children slept, situated at the opposite end of the apartment was completely outside of the field of sight of anyone in the Tapas restaurant.

Therefore the most viable solution would be to leave the children in the parents bedroom or in the living room where they could easily be checked from the place where the parents were dining.

When questioned about the availability of a baby sitting service from 19.30 to 23.30 he confirms that this service exists and that it is free.

When asked, the witness replies that he cannot understand why as the service was free, the McCanns did not use it.

When asked, he says that before the disappearance he did not have any contact with the family, they were “just” clients like hundreds of others who stayed at the resort.

With regard to the date of the disappearance on 3rd May 2007, he remembers that at 22.00/22.15 he received a phone call from the reception, from receptionist Helder, who told him that John Hill was extremely agitated as a child had disappeared and that the GNR had been contacted but had not arrived yet. He added (the receptionist) that he had phoned the GNR post several times and that he had been told that they would arrive when they could but that they were investigating a theft in Odiaxere. The receptionist asked the witness whether he should contact the PSP, to which the witness replied no as this area belongs to the GNR.

Given the circumstances, the witness thought it best to go to the resort to find out more about the situation.

When he arrived at the scene about 10 to 15 minutes later, he immediately went to the reception where the GNR were present, taking a statement from the girl’s father.

The witness then went to the apartment where there was an agglomeration of persons, however he managed to perceive that the apartment did not show any sign of disturbance not that anyone had attempted to break in.

He adds that he heard it said at the scene that the mother had not left the shutter open as she always closed the shutter when she left. When asked, he says that he did not notice anything strange in relation to the apartment or its surroundings.

The witness states that the resort did not have any kind of security or cameras.

He never saw anything suspicious or abnormal. He was asked to provide a copy of the rooming list, showing the information relating to the booking made by the family, which he immediately provided and which is annexed to the statement.

The witness says that he has nothing else useful to add.

No more is said. Reads, ratifies, signs.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline pegasus

Re: A child abducted yet nobody thought to phone the police immediately?
« Reply #121 on: March 19, 2014, 01:29:39 AM »
... The police did  NOT   "fail to arrive for 50 minutes"  ...  they were not contacted until 10.41pm,  and arrived at the scene less than 20 minutes later  (  phone records establish that fact without question  ) ...
Agreed, the 2241 phonecall is doubly confirmed (by both the OC and the GNR phone records), and the GNR got there fast.

IMO the missing child was reported by MO at about 2215 to someone in the 24-hour reception building.
The receptionist for that shift says the first he heard of the emergency was by a phonecall from another employee. Maybe there was a different employee at the desk when it was reported?
Also evening creche is in the same building as 24 hour reception (and possibly directly upstairs from it???) and the 3 employees at creche knew about it already fairly soon after 2200 from a creche mum so it seems reasonable to assume that reception would also know?
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 01:38:32 AM by pegasus »

Silkywhiskers

  • Guest
Re: A child abducted yet nobody thought to phone the police immediately?
« Reply #122 on: March 19, 2014, 01:38:28 AM »
Search for an abducted child.  Are you real?

Dodge the question - tick
Throw a random insult - tick
McCann Defense Plan successfully applied. 8@??)(

How do you know M was abducted?  Has there been an arrest I missed out on?

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: A child abducted yet nobody thought to phone the police immediately?
« Reply #123 on: March 19, 2014, 03:07:46 AM »
Revised translation.

Processos Volume II

Pages 331 - 333

Witness Statement

Vitor Manuel dos Santos

Date/Time: 2007/05/07 11H00

Occupation: Head of Accommodation

Place of Work: Ocean Club


He comes to the process as a witness. He has worked as Head of Accommodation at the resort for seven years, but has been employed there for the past 18 years.

His functions are the management of bookings and the control of contracts whether with private individuals or travel agencies. He is responsible for the management and supervision of the reception.

As concerns the facts being investigated, he says he received the McCann booking as normal and he points out that this reservation was made by Mark Warner, whose representative is John Hill.

He says that it is normal for each reservation to make specifications and that in this case in concrete a request was made that the four families should be accommodated close to each other and a ground floor apartment was requested enabling easy access for the families with small children.

He adds that this family booked from 28th April to 5th May on a half board basis, in other words, breakfast and dinner. For dinner the guests could choose between two options, the Tapas and the Millenium and although the meals are identical, the clients choose the restaurant according to its proximity to their accommodation.

In this case in concrete, the rational choice for dinner would be the Tapas restaurant as it is 100 metres distance from the apartment, whilst the Millenium is situated 600 metres away.

The witness states that from the restaurant it is possible to see the apartment including the window of the living room and the bedroom where the parents slept. The bedroom where the three children slept, situated at the opposite end of the apartment was completely outside of the field of sight of anyone in the Tapas restaurant.

Therefore the most viable solution would be to leave the children in the parents bedroom or in the living room where they could easily be checked from the place where the parents were dining.

When questioned about the availability of a baby sitting service from 19.30 to 23.30 he confirms that this service exists and that it is free.

When asked, the witness replies that he cannot understand why as the service was free, the McCanns did not use it.

When asked, he says that before the disappearance he did not have any contact with the family, they were “just” clients like hundreds of others who stayed at the resort.

With regard to the date of the disappearance on 3rd May 2007, he remembers that at 22.00/22.15 he received a phone call from the reception, from receptionist Helder, who told him that John Hill was extremely agitated as a child had disappeared and that the GNR had been contacted but had not arrived yet. He added (the receptionist) that he had phoned the GNR post several times and that he had been told that they would arrive when they could but that they were investigating a theft in Odiaxere. The receptionist asked the witness whether he should contact the PSP, to which the witness replied no as this area belongs to the GNR.

Given the circumstances, the witness thought it best to go to the resort to find out more about the situation.

When he arrived at the scene about 10 to 15 minutes later, he immediately went to the reception where the GNR were present, taking a statement from the girl’s father.

The witness then went to the apartment where there was an agglomeration of persons, however he managed to perceive that the apartment did not show any sign of disturbance not that anyone had attempted to break in.

He adds that he heard it said at the scene that the mother had not left the shutter open as she always closed the shutter when she left. When asked, he says that he did not notice anything strange in relation to the apartment or its surroundings.

The witness states that the resort did not have any kind of security or cameras.

He never saw anything suspicious or abnormal. He was asked to provide a copy of the rooming list, showing the information relating to the booking made by the family, which he immediately provided and which is annexed to the statement.

The witness says that he has nothing else useful to add.

No more is said. Reads, ratifies, signs.

I do not understand why you have brought this witness statement in reply to the question I posed   ...  it has no relevance that I can see 

To reiterate,  I asked  whether or not Matthew Oldfield told the McCanns that the Ocean club receptionist had  NOT  contacted the police when he first told them of Madeleine's disappearance  ? 

He was fully aware that the police had  NOT  been contacted at 10.15pm   ...  he makes that clear in his rogatory statement

So did he tell the McCanns that or not  ?   ...  and if he didn't  (  and the McCanns have  made no mention of it   )  then  WHY  didn't he  ? 

Did he allow the McCanns to believe that he had gone to reception and ensured  the police  had been contacted  when he  knew  they had not  ? 

Why would he do that  ? 

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: A child abducted yet nobody thought to phone the police immediately?
« Reply #124 on: March 19, 2014, 07:44:48 AM »
Unfortunately you are trying to apply logic to the illogical act of not locking it from the inside.

Exactly the point.

Offline sadie

Re: A child abducted yet nobody thought to phone the police immediately?
« Reply #125 on: March 19, 2014, 10:59:06 AM »
Jane Tanner was expecting the police at any moment.  As far as the Tapas group were concerned MO had alerted at 10.10 to reception ... to call the police.

She did the right thing waiting for the police to arrive rather than perhaps  unecessarily worrying the parents.  What could the parents do about it anyway if their child had been abducted ?

The reception or the police let them all down, with such a long wait.  Jane did exactly the right thing

Icabod, where have I said 10.15?  Where have I said Jane Tanner waited 50 minutes?

Why are you changing my words?  Please do not twist my words and spin what I said

You are perpetuating  a myth 

The police did  NOT   "fail to arrive for 50 minutes"  ...  they were not contacted until 10.41pm,  and arrived at the scene less than 20 minutes later  (  phone records establish that fact without question  ) 

Here's the thing though

When Matthew Oldfield returned from reception  KNOWING  that the police had  NOT  been called  ( and  he makes it  perfectly  clear in his regotary statement that he was fully aware that the police had not been contacted at that point  )   did he tell the McCanns,  or not  ? 

Did he go back to the apartment and tell Kate and Gerry that the receptionist had advised they do a more thorough  search  before   contacting the police    ( and that he had accepted that advice  ) 

You'd think he would,  wouldn't you  ?  ...  you think he'd relay that information back to the McCanns wouldn't you  ?   

Or did Matthew Oldfield,   for some inexplicable reason,  decide not to mention that his request for the police to be called had been   rejected by the OC receptionist  ? 



I have just said he cantacted the reception and asked them to contact the police at 10.10 (I agree, 10.10 -ish, could be as late as 10.15, maybe))

I then said that Jane Tanner did the correct thing, she waited fopr the Police to arrive .... but no way would they have expected the police to be so long.

What you are saying is completely irrelevant to what I said, but it highlights the delay, seemingly at reception, then with the GNR ... so thanks Icabod.


On this occasion the way you have altered my words has worked out well for my side of the argument.  It shows just how long Jane had to wait. 10.10 ish to (according to you) about 11.01.  Seems she had to wait over 50 minutes  Jeepers !


Please do NOT alter my words again.  That is spin (politely put!)

Offline Anna

Re: A child abducted yet nobody thought to phone the police immediately?
« Reply #126 on: March 19, 2014, 11:35:54 AM »
Icadbod reply to your post below
The Title of the thread?
 So this Witness in his statement was telling lies as was the person who rang him at 10.15 to say the police had been called .By the time this witness got to the Reception ,the police were already there questioning Gerry. How did they get there if nobody called them?
.There is no chance that anyone else phoned from a different phone or mobile?
The police arrived at the Apartment at around 24.00 Hrs according to another witness who was there with Kate ( I will not include that statement)  and from that police officer's statement.
Somebody has got it wrong. Who?
And how could anyone know what MO said or thought regarding alerting the police?
 
 
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 11:51:56 AM by Anna »
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Angelo222

Re: A child abducted yet nobody thought to phone the police immediately?
« Reply #127 on: March 19, 2014, 02:19:45 PM »
Manager John Hill first learned about the incident from Kid Club supervisor Lindsay Johnson at 10.28pm so receptionist Helder could not have communicated with him at 10.15pm.  I will give him the benefit of the doubt and say he was confused.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline John

Re: A child abducted yet nobody thought to phone the police immediately?
« Reply #128 on: March 19, 2014, 03:16:38 PM »
For the benefit of any new member or reader (give or take a minute or two)

10.00  Kate McCann finds Madeleine gone from the holiday apartment.

11.00  First two Portuguese police officers (GNR) arrive at the resort reception.

12.10 The Portuguese criminal police (PJ) arrive at the resort.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

icabodcrane

  • Guest
Re: A child abducted yet nobody thought to phone the police immediately?
« Reply #129 on: March 19, 2014, 03:40:50 PM »
For the benefit of any new member or reader (give or take a minute or two)

10.00  Kate McCann finds Madeleine gone from the holiday apartment.

10.41  Police are contacted  

11.00  First two Portuguese police officers (GNR) arrive at the resort reception.

12.10 The Portuguese criminal police (PJ) arrive at the resort.

I have added the bit in bold above

In the context of this thread,  which questions the delay between Madeleine being found missing,  and the first phone call to the police is very important

There was a delay of forty minutes between those two events which has never been adequately explained by the tapas group

Offline Eleanor

Re: A child abducted yet nobody thought to phone the police immediately?
« Reply #130 on: March 19, 2014, 03:56:26 PM »
I have added the bit in bold above

In the context of this thread,  which questions the delay between Madeleine being found missing,  and the first phone call to the police is very important

There was a delay of forty minutes between those two events which has never been adequately explained by the tapas group

It wasn't their place to explain it.  What makes you think it was?  They were in a foreign country and dependent on help.  It was never their fault.

Offline Anna

Re: A child abducted yet nobody thought to phone the police immediately?
« Reply #131 on: March 19, 2014, 04:48:15 PM »
For the benefit of any new member or reader (give or take a minute or two)

10.00  Kate McCann finds Madeleine gone from the holiday apartment.

11.00  First two Portuguese police officers (GNR) arrive at the resort reception.

12.10 The Portuguese criminal police (PJ) arrive at the resort.

The police had ben contacted twice, before they responded with urgency So what time was the first call made?



Regarding the facts on 3rd May, when he was on patrol with his colleague Roque in the Odiaxere zone, they received a radio communication from the central, telling them to go to P da L, specifically to the OC resort reception where the father of a little girl who had gone missing was. When they were on their way to this place and in the Valverde area, they received a new communication, informing them that this was a very young child and that her father had called again. They continued on their way, now with urgency, heading for the main reception of the resort.

http://themaddiecasefiles.com/topic18-10.html
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 04:52:11 PM by Anna »
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline sadie

Re: A child abducted yet nobody thought to phone the police immediately?
« Reply #132 on: March 19, 2014, 06:45:16 PM »
For the benefit of any new member or reader (give or take a minute or two)


10.00  Kate McCann finds Madeleine gone from the holiday apartment.

11.00  First two Portuguese police officers (GNR) arrive at the resort reception.

12.10 The Portuguese criminal police (PJ) arrive at the resort.


With Icabods addition:

For the benefit of any new member or reader (give or take a minute or two)

10.00  Kate McCann finds Madeleine gone from the holiday apartment.

10.41  Police are contacted

11.00  First two Portuguese police officers (GNR) arrive at the resort reception.

12.10 The Portuguese criminal police (PJ) arrive at the resort.


I have added the bit in bold above

In the context of this thread,  which questions the delay between Madeleine being found missing,  and the first phone call to the police is very important

There was a delay of forty minutes between those two events which has never been adequately explained by the tapas group

quote author=John link=topic=3271.msg137608#msg137608 date=1395242198]
For the benefit of any new member or reader (give or take a minute or two)


Icabods version with sadies addition:

Quote
10.00  Kate McCann finds Madeleine gone from the holiday apartment.

10.10  Matt Oldfield contacted the main reception to ask them to call the police

10.41  Police are contacted

11.00  First two Portuguese police officers (GNR) arrive at the resort reception.

12.10 The Portuguese criminal police (PJ) arrive at the resort.


And I have added the bit in blue bold above.  That gives a fairer, more balanced picture, dont you think Icabod?



So, it is NOT about the Mccanns explaining to YOUR satisfaction the long delay..  They did their bit in 10 minutes, as everyone knows


Instead, why not ask why the delay with the the GNR and OC taking 50 minutes?  Do THEY need to explain things to YOUR satisfaction
?

10.10 - 11.00 =50 minutes


Own goal again, Icabod.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: A child abducted yet nobody thought to phone the police immediately?
« Reply #133 on: March 19, 2014, 07:13:41 PM »
'10.10  Matt Oldfield contacted the main reception to ask them to call the police'

Where is the independent verification of this ?



Offline Angelo222

Re: A child abducted yet nobody thought to phone the police immediately?
« Reply #134 on: March 19, 2014, 07:49:16 PM »
There are other statements where waiters talk about contacting the police so we cannot say for sure when or how many times this happened.  The call to the GNR at 10.41pm might have been the first call to police from the Reception landline but it is probably not the first call.

Mr Receptionist probably realised in hindsight that he didn't help the situation.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2014, 07:54:17 PM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!