A child abducted yet nobody thought to phone the police immediately?

[John]

There will always be people who thought they saw something but didn't and police have to be extremely careful not to get side tracked by them.

I have never understood why Gerry went out looking for Madeleine without first contacting the authorities if he knew she had been abducted.  If I had been in that situation I would have grabbed my mobile and phoned the emergency number while searching outside just in case she had been abandoned by her abductor. In situations like that you have to cover all the bases.

Remind me, how many people offered to phone the police and were told not to bother?  A strange state of affairs?

[misty]

Whoever was responsible, surely you would have welcomed a better police response for a missing child than a few GNR officers.
The GNR celebrations may not have had any influence on the sequence of events but all local situations should be taken into consideration, right down to the windspeed & visibility.

[pegasus]

Whoever was responsible, surely you would have welcomed a better police response for a missing child than a few GNR officers.
The GNR celebrations may not have had any influence on the sequence of events but all local situations should be taken into consideration, right down to the windspeed & visibility.

How many mobile phones did the T9 group take to PDL? Answer = exactly 8.
What % of those 8 knew the number 112? Let's say 50%.
So that is 4 intelligent people with a mobile phone who know the number 112.
How many of them phoned 112 in the first 10 minutes? 0. In the first 70 minutes? 0.
And BTW the 112 call centres in Portugal do have English speaking operators available.
And 112 works even if you have no credit.

[sadie]

How many mobile phones did the T9 group take to PDL? Answer = exactly 8.
What % of those 8 knew the number 112? Let's say 50%.
So that is 4 intelligent people with a mobile phone who know the number 112.
How many of them phoned 112 in the first 10 minutes? 0. In the first 70 minutes? 0.
And BTW the 112 call centres in Portugal do have English speaking operators available.
And 112 works even if you have no credit.

Numbers of Mobile phones .... OK, maybe

Knowing the emergency number 112 ..... 50%  What rubbish !

What a gross assumption to make Pegasus.  I am losing my faith in you, making sweeping and silly statements like that.




You guys really are trying to make something of nothing by twisting facts.

Why?

There has to be a reason

[faithlilly]

Numbers of Mobile phones .... OK, maybe

Knowing the emergency number 112 ..... 50%  What rubbish !

What a gross assumption to make Pegasus.  I am losing my faith in you, making sweeping and silly statements like that.




You guys really are trying to make something of nothing by twisting facts.

Why?

There has to be a reason

There is a reason. The McCanns and their friends actions on the night of May the third were suspicious.

[pegasus]

Numbers of Mobile phones .... OK, maybe
Knowing the emergency number 112 ..... 50%  What rubbish !
What a gross assumption to make Pegasus.  I am losing my faith in you, making sweeping and silly statements like that.
You guys really are trying to make something of nothing by twisting facts.
Why?
There has to be a reason

Maybe 50% was an over estimate.
I now found this source suggesting that only 10% of Brits know the 112 number.
http://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/press/press_releases/2010/pr1010_en.htm
However I would have expected well educated professionals, most of whom had travelled in Europe before, to score better than a poor 10%, or better than 0 out of 8.
The point is - even if there was some distraction of GNR, it would only become relevant after 2242, because non-one phoned the GNR until then.

[Brietta]

How many mobile phones did the T9 group take to PDL? Answer = exactly 8.
What % of those 8 knew the number 112? Let's say 50%.
So that is 4 intelligent people with a mobile phone who know the number 112.
How many of them phoned 112 in the first 10 minutes? 0. In the first 70 minutes? 0.
And BTW the 112 call centres in Portugal do have English speaking operators available.
And 112 works even if you have no credit.

If you were out and about in a group of say six people and an incident occurred necessitating a call to emergency services ... how many calls do you think should be made? 

Do you think all six people should call? 

Think about it logically as you usually do ... one call ... one emergency co-ordinator who will take all necessary information and alert the appropriate authorities using proper procedure and protocols. 

The caller may even be kept online to give updates or provide more information as a situation develops or to be given directions on appropriate action to take until emergency services arrive. 

IMO it takes one caller to register an emergency and give details … if six call at the same time about the same incident in the full knowledge that all six are doing so that is nothing short of lunacy. It is totally unnecessary and in the case of a missing child one call should be all it takes for priority procedures to be implemented.

This assertion that everyone in the McCann party should have made an emergency call is arrant nonsense and is merely another stick to beat Madeleine’s parents with, but in my opinion it is a particularly ludicrous one.

 It only takes ONE person to make a call to set the whole emergency procedure in motion. ONE.

[pegasus]

 I agree that only one call is required. Also that most or all of the group were under the impression that the important one call had been made, at about 2215 from a landline.
But as it happened, probably through no fault of the group, that call in fact hadn't been made, therefore that 42 minutes part of the delay (from 2200 to 2242) was entirely due to that call not being made, and nothing to do with GNR staffing levels or cunning distraction plans.

[sadie]

Maybe 50% was an over estimate.
I now found this source suggesting that only 10% of Brits know the 112 number.http://ec.europa.eu/unitedkingdom/press/press_releases/2010/pr1010_en.htm
However I would have expected well educated professionals, most of whom had travelled in Europe before, to score better than a poor 10%, or better than 0 out of 8.
The point is - even if there was some distraction of GNR, it would only become relevant after 2242, because non-one phoned the GNR until then.

I now found this source suggesting that only 10% of Brits know the 112 number.

Yep and I bet that most of that number have a place of their own in Europe ... or family over there that they visit.



Both hubby and I are pretty well educated.  Both of us are well travelled in Europe, he particularly so.... but neither of us knew the European emergency number. 

When taking packaage deals we always stayed in 4* or better hotels with a 24 hour reception.  Reception are there to assist with any problems, they speak the language and are trained to know how to help.

When touring, we stayed anywhere that looked OK, and these places did NOT usually have 24 hour reception.  However when touring we always carried The Michelin Guide (a mini travellers bible).   We have driven many thousands of miles in Europe ... and elsewhere in the World, but never had need to call the emergency services ... but as we were touring , we had it on us



But not at package Hotels.  We never took Michelin Guide.    There we relied totally on Reception.




What makes you think that the Mccanns should be any different to us, and most British holiday makers?

[Brietta]

I agree that only one call is required. Also that most or all of the group were under the impression that the important one call had been made, at about 2215 from a landline.
But as it happened, probably through no fault of the group, that call in fact hadn't been made, therefore that 42 minutes part of the delay (from 2200 to 2242) was entirely due to that call not being made, and nothing to do with GNR staffing levels or cunning distraction plans.

If the group believed the call had been made at 2215 absolutely no blame at all can be attached to them if the call they understood had been made was not.

[Carana]

Reading through this...

In the circumstances, I don't find anyone particularly remiss.

The McCann group took around 10 minutes to register that she really had gone and to organise a quick local search. When she was obviously nowhere to be found, Matt went to the reception. The receptionist set the missing child protocol in motion (which must have taken a bit of time to get through to those responsible and to provide any further info). The police were called roughly 1/2 hour later when the initial OC team couldn't find her either.

Up until then, people were just hoping that she'd wandered off on her own, or if she had been abducted, she could have been dumped alive nearby, but might also be in a potentially dangerous situation, e.g., fallen into the swimming pool, a ditch, had been run over or whatever else.

If there are only one or two patrols in Lagos at that time of year and night (it wasn't yet the summer season), then organising a local search as a priority seems to make sense to me. In context, it must have been a frantic 20-30 minutes, with people with strange accents in a state of anxiety trying to communicate.

To OC's credit, the protocol was implemented very quickly with numerous people out searching. I'm not convinced that ringing 112 in the initial minutes would be a natural reaction in a foreign country with a receptionist who knew where they lived, understood English, could get a search party togther and ring the police on their behalf.

[John]

If the group believed the call had been made at 2215 absolutely no blame at all can be attached to them if the call they understood had been made was not.

Matt knew the call hadn't been made so is there any record in the files that he reported this back to the McCanns after he had returned to OC Garden after his tortuous route around PdL?

Another opportunity for the parents and anyone else who knew what was going on to make that call and surprisingly, nobody felt the need to do so?

[Mr Gray]

There is a reason. The McCanns and their friends actions on the night of May the third were suspicious.

  Only in your opinion....I don't find anything suspicious re their behaviour

[Mr Gray]

So getting back on topic...what time was the first call made to the police...

[Mr Gray]

Gerry's statement....

. Immediately, the group headed for the club and searched across all the facilities, swimming pool, tennis etc., as well as in the apartment, with the help of Ocean Club employees, while at the same time they contacted the authorities, that would later appear.

so Gerry says the authorities were contacted immediately