Leonor Cipriano, her confession and subsequent silence in the killing of her daughter Joana.

[Anna]

Has anyone seen a written copy of Leonor's confession?

They both said that they had done it.
They both said that the other one had done it.
They both apologised for saying that the other one had done it.
They both gave different accounts of how they had done.
Neither of then knew exactly how the body had been disposed of.
Neither of then knew where the body was.

Did anyone know what had gone on?  Or did they all agree that The PJ were right, depending on what seemed the most feasible?

The only confession that's out there is the 2009 appeal one and it was thrown out of court.
The letter begging forgiveness, I think must be a Myth . I did read that Joao had asked forgiveness, but its not in my paperwork that I can see, I will however continue the search. It could have been on that site that tells a lot of lies .

[Eleanor]

The only confession that's out there is the 2009 appeal one and it was thrown out of court.
The letter begging forgiveness, I think must be a Myth . I did read that Joao had asked forgiveness, but its not in my paperwork that I can see, I will however continue the search. It could have been on that site that tells a lot of lies .

Not very satisfactory, is it?  Laughable almost.  Well, not very, but you know what I mean.

[sadie]

Don't get me wrong Anna, I do agree but it adds up since that was the reason the magistrate remanded her in custody but bailed João.  She said she did it, whether this was a lie is not known since her story later changed.  She could have been covering for her brother, maybe she was more scared of him.  Remember she later wrote to him pleading forgiveness.   -

Did you get that the right way round, John?

My recollection is that Joao wrote to Leonor pleading for forgiveness

[sadie]

Ok, you inferred in your question that Leonor was tortured before her initial confession.   Always remember that she confessed a second time just before the PJ trials.  This time she confessed that it was all João's doing, an abduction with a view to selling Joana but that it all went horribly wrong.

Sadie, your hate of Dr Amaral is clouding your judgement.  There is no evidence to suggest he ever touched Leonor or even threatened her.  He was not convicted of any torture by any court so please keep this in mind.

As for threatening Kate, Dr Amaral was never in the same room as the McCanns never mind threaten them.  In any event, he couldn't speak English and they couldn't speak Portuguese.

Please keep a sense of proportion about your posts.

No John I didn't infer anything.  I questioned, NOT inferred ... and pointed out how unreliable Amaral is ... that he is a convicted liar and that he allegedly personally smacked Leandro up so badly, to obtain a false witness statement, that Leandro was admitted to hospital.  I cant remember the exact details but I think it was for several days.  Pls correct me if I am wrong.



As for hating Amaral.  I hate bullies ; I hate liars : I hate manipulators, I hate braggards, but most of all I hate injustices caused by so called authority.

Hate is rather a strong word that I wouldn't have used, but if Amaral is any of these things then I certainly find him pretty dispicable.

To be honest, John, I wouldn't trust him an inch


[..... moderated out comment ...]

[John]

Has anyone seen a written copy of Leonor's confession?

They both said that they had done it.
They both said that the other one had done it.
They both apologised for saying that the other one had done it.
They both gave different accounts of how they had done.
Neither of then knew exactly how the body had been disposed of.
Neither of then knew where the body was.

Did anyone know what had gone on?  Or did they all agree that The PJ were right, depending on what seemed the most feasible?

There will be a court record of both Leonor and João's original verbal confessions to the magistrate.   Leonor said initially that she did it and João said he hid the body.  This eventually morphed into João abducted the girl with a view to selling her but it went horribly wrong.  Take your pick because they are both practised liars with Leonor being convicted of perjury.

Sadie appears to have a big problem with the fact that both Leonor and João confessed to having an involvement in Joana's disappearance.  Mother Leonor even confessed before the examining magistrate to having murdered her daughter by smashing her head off a wall in the family home.  For his part Leonor's brother João Cipriano confessed to having disposed of the child's body.  Both were represented in court in terms of the law in Portugal, they both therefore knew what they were admitting to.

Leonor and João Cipriano stand silently and without emotion as prosecutor José Pinheiro outlined his case.

When they appeared before the Examining Magistrate they did so separately.   First to appear was João but he was released on bail only to be rearrested and remanded a few days later.  Leonor for her part was remanded in custody having admitted to killing Joana.

[sadie]

If you were intimidated, almost certainly threatened with your children being taken off you, imo, bullied and tortured, maybe you would change your story to please ... as and when

Sorry, John, but you are [.. abusive removed ...]  You know how kate was "offered a deal" by Amaral and Co.  If she accepted and admitted something she knew she hadn't done, then only two years and Gerry would be spared jail to look after the little ones.  Seems offering a "deal" to the mother. might be his Modus Operandi ?

Dont tell me that Amaral wasn't there.  He was head honcho and he made the decisions, he gave the instructions.... so even if out of sight, effectively he was there.

Everything was co-ordinated by him.  He was the Co-ordinator.  Almost without doubt, he  [... speculation removed ...]  Now try and tell me that he didn't order [... libel removed ...]  He was the head.   If he didn't then who did?
Only my opinion of course



Seems Amaral knew how to keep his nose clean, but he didn't quite manage it this time, did he?  Eighteen months.

[Eleanor]

I find it very hard to believe that the PJ officers of which Amaral was in charge, simply ran around beating up witnesses and suspects while he had no knowledge of this.
And then there were the officers brought in from Lisbon.  Who were they taking their orders from?  They weren't out searching because they were interrogating Leonor.
Was Amaral not in the Police Station at any time during this lengthy interrogation?  And if not, why not?  He was The Coordinator whose job is supposed to be amalgamating facts and evidence which can only be done from his office.

And it's not good enough to suggest that they spent a day and a half on and off, beating her up to find out where the body was if she had already confessed.
Nor is it good enough to say that Amaral took their word for what happened when it would have been impossible to beat her that badly while anyone not involved in the beatings were unaware of what was going on.
Or did they stuff a sock in her mouth?

This whole thing stinks of The Lubyanka.

[Anna]

Why would she confess ,If as some say she had already confessed at some time earlier? Because she hadn’t already confessed? Press reports were all the information available to anyone.
 A lot of lies and extreme pressure to condemn Leonor, through tortured out confessions and from people at the time of press releases and the trial IMO. …Not her lies!.
The other “sold” confession, was thrown out of court and I believe this confession was a ploy to have the sentence reduced.
 I would try anything too, to get out of prison......How about you?
Her family probably didn't want her back for a break or xmas, because they knew that they would be plagued by the media, which is totally understandable after what they had gone through. Leandro's family had suffered substantial losses in their business and had to hire a lawyer for themselves because of assaults on two of their sons and an employee . The abuse then stopped. I guess they used other methods after that to get the required responses. Only my opinion of course.

Leonor's testimony in the torture trial admitted that she did not recognize the accused. She had told them that at an inquiry years previous. Nothing new and not lies


23 feb 2008
Case Joana
Judicial Inspectors will even the trial by
Paula Martinheira23 February 2008Comment on

Five agents are accused of torture to Leonor Cipriano, to bring her to confess the death of her daughter. Goncalo Amaral, who is leading the investigation of the case Maddie was composed accused for not having denounced the case; he was also responsible for the investigation of the disappearance of Joana.


The five inspectors of the Judicial Police (PJ) accused of crimes of torture, falsification of documents, false witness and omission of aid about alleged assaults on the Leonor Cipriano, to lead her is to confess the form which she will have murdered her daughter Joana , in September 2004, were pronounced by the judge of instruction Ana Lucia Cross to go to trial. Joao Grid, lawyer of the girl's mother, believes that the decision will influence the revision of the trial process of Leonor.

Already Paul Christopher, one of the accused, believes that behind the pronunciation is a "clear willingness of some people to control the PJ and ending with the same".  In declarations to DN, one inspector says that "there is a certain number of people in Portugal,  already identified, which have even been gleeful of contentment with the news of the trial", thus ensuring that, "to his time, these people will be condemned".  For Paul Christopher, this is "clearly a political process, already that flees strictly judicial sphere".  "The PJ has to be the target of multiple attacks in recent years. For some reason there are several processes of torture taking place against inspectors".

Also Antonio Pragal Colaco, his lawyer and the defendants Leonel Marques, Paulo Marques Good and Antonio Cardoso, all of the Central Directorate for Combating Banditry, said the DN not be "surprised" with the pronunciation for judgment, since "the inspectors are to serve as scapegoats to satisfy claims of some political classes", contended. Arguing that, "if the indictment focuses on obtaining a confession on October 14, 2004, then it must be consistent with itself and release ,Leonor Cipriano".

The fifth accused in this case, by not having denounced the case, is Goncalo Amaral, coordinator until October 2007 the Department of Criminal Investigation (DIC) of Portimao and leader of the research about the disappearance of Maddie. On 14 October 2004, the date on which the MP of Faro believes they have occurred the aggressions to Leonor Cipriano, at premises in PJ (and on the same day that she will have confessed that she killed her daughter and has torn the body), Amaral was responsible for the investigation of the disappearance of  Joana. The DN, his lawyer, Antonio Cabrita, said that the decision of the judge was expected, criticizing the fact that the process has been called by district attorney of Evora MP "too much time".
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=pt&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dn.pt%2Fespeciais%2Finterior.aspx%3Fcontent_id%3D1006737%26especial%3DCaso%20Joana%26seccao%3DSOCIEDADE

http://www.dn.pt/especiais/interior.aspx?content_id=1006737&especial=Caso Joana&seccao=SOCIEDADE

[lane99]

Is this the case where the police said the accused deliberately threw herself down a staircase, but the injuries looked suspiciously like she had been repeatedly punched in both eyes?

[Anna]

Is this the case where the police said the accused deliberately threw herself down a staircase, but the injuries looked suspiciously like she had been repeatedly punched in both eyes?

Hi there Lane.
                      That is Leonor Cipriano indeed.

[Anna]

Here is one
She was far too scared, if you ask me
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Leonor does not recognize the assailants Judicial


29/11/2005

Leonor Cipriano, convicted in September and sentenced to 20 years in prison for the death of his daughter Joan, in the Algarve, yesterday could not identify with certainty inspectors Central Directorate for Combating Gangsterism of the Judicial Police (PJ) who accuses him of Lisbon to have assaulted, in October last year, the headquarters of the Judicial Faro, during the investigation of crime.

The complaint by Leonor took prosecutors yesterday to proceed to the recognition of the suspects of the assault by the complainant. The diligence was held at the Department of Investigation and Prosecution of Évora, because the premises of the Ministry of Faro there is a room with mirrored wall.
Leonor, before the prosecutor Manuel Simões Watermill, identified the two inspectors who interrogated during the investigation into the death of Joan - and assured "they never assaulted her." That left the other two investigators who were part of the PJ team - but leanor was not able to recognize. The other two were not recognized.
Antonio Colaco, the lawyer representing the PJ inspectors, told the CM that diligence was "enlightening" and asked the Attorney General's Office to disclose the result to "defend the honor of PJ itself."
PJ REFUSAL MALTREATMENT
Complaints of alleged assaults date back to October 2004, when Leonor Cipriano says he was beaten in interrogation conducted at the PJ in Faro Directory by a team of four inspectors DCCB.
The researchers sought to discover the location of the body of Joan. Leonor arrived with marks on the body of the Prison Beja and have received medical care. The PJ ensures that the bruises were the result of "a suicide attempt".
'PJ MAY NOT soiled'
The lawyer for the PJ inspectors that Leonor Cipriano accused of assault said yesterday at the end of the investigation, that the "Judiciary Police can not be held responsible for permenentemente soiled and everything bad happens in the country."
According Antonio Colaco, in recent times "inspectors responsible for investigating the case of the death of Joan have been constantly enxovalhados".
The lawyer told the CM that the Professional Association of Criminal Investigation Staff ponders, for all this, bring a civil action against the state - and "the amount of compensation accrue to a charitable organization of Portimão," county which includes the village of Figueira, where Joan was murdered by the mother and maternal uncle.






http://www.cmjornal.xl.pt/detalhe/noticias/nacional/portugal/leonor-nao-reconhece-agressores-da-judiciaria

[lane99]

What savages the Portuguese police seem to be.  That poor woman.

If I'm correct, her daughter has never been found.  Which would leave open the possibility she could still be alive.

[Anna]

What savages the Portuguese police seem to be.  That poor woman.

If I'm correct, her daughter has never been found.  Which would leave open the possibility she could still be alive.

She could most certainly still be alive, as no body was ever found. It would wonderful if she was.

[Anna]

I am trying out the attachments, but a goggle earth of Joana's area

[John]

I attempted that a while back too Anna but you have to be cautious with the route.  That waste ground in the middle of the village was closed off way back when Joana disappeared so she probably didn't use it as a shortcut.  All we appear to know for sure is that she was seen at the steps by the church with her shopping on her was back from the cafe.

Remember that those new houses didn't exist in 2004 or the tracks.