Author Topic: Did the PJ conduct a proper search for evidence at OC?  (Read 90205 times)

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Estuarine

  • Guest
Re: Did the PJ conduct a proper search for evidence at OC?
« Reply #30 on: February 13, 2014, 07:51:10 PM »
It is always worth going back to the beginning and reading the GNR statements.

Offline Carana

Re: Did the PJ conduct a proper search for evidence at OC?
« Reply #31 on: February 13, 2014, 07:54:42 PM »
Carana, can you point to cast iron evidence to show where the shutters were seen (not said), but actually physically seen. to be open an independent party ?

I was responding to your assertion that Kate had opened the shutters, and I simply asked you to point me to the pages in the files where that is supposedly established as fact.

Quote from: stephen25000 on February 10, 2014, 06:56:23 PM

    Who opened the shutters ?

    Ah yes, kate mccann.


ETA: While you search for that, perhaps you could also point where in the files any forensic report actually mentioned that Kate's fingerprints of two fingers on the inside of the window indicated that she had even opened the window.

And any report of any attempt to find fingerprints on the outside of that window.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 08:00:33 PM by Carana »

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: Did the PJ conduct a proper search for evidence at OC?
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2014, 07:56:03 PM »
Maybe they had no power to do so? Did you ever think of that? Point is crime scene was trashed long before police got there.

What do you mean, had no power? You mean no legal power or no physical power?

And the fact that the crime scene was trashed is only half of the story. If it made no difference to the collection of forensics that it had already been left open, the criminologist from the PJ would not have bothered giving an order to have it sealed off:

After the arrival of the witness and his colleague Vitor Martins the scene was isolated and the inspection began, namely the collection of statements and inspection of the scene, the respective reports that were subsequently attached to the process documents.
 
The witness carried out finger print testing on the inside of the bedroom window, where the girl had been sleeping, leaving other examinations for the following day given that on that occasion these tests could not be carried out in the best technical conditions. For this reason, the apartments and the surrounding area were sealed off, watched over by the GNR officers who remained on site.
 
As far as he knows, after the first examination, other members from the finger print detection service and also officers from the LPC Crime Scene arrived at the scene.


Furthermore, more forensic officers would not have been summoned to the scene if there was nothing of forensic value there. Rather, more members of the finger print detective service and other forensic experts  arrived.
 
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 07:57:39 PM by Sherlock Holmes »

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Did the PJ conduct a proper search for evidence at OC?
« Reply #33 on: February 13, 2014, 07:56:48 PM »
I was responding to your assertion that Kate had opened the shutters, and I simply asked you to point me to the pages in the files where that is supposedly established as fact.

Quote from: stephen25000 on February 10, 2014, 06:56:23 PM

    Who opened the shutters ?

    Ah yes, kate mccann.


She did attempt to open the shutters from outside, see FPs rogatory

Offline Lace

Re: Did the PJ conduct a proper search for evidence at OC?
« Reply #34 on: February 13, 2014, 07:57:07 PM »
Maybe they had no power to do so? Did you ever think of that? Point is crime scene was trashed long before police got there.

You say that as if they purposely trashed it.     They searched the apartment to see if Madeleine was hiding.

Checked the shutters to see if they could be opened from outside,  if not,  they could have wondered if Madeleine had opened them couldn't they?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Did the PJ conduct a proper search for evidence at OC?
« Reply #35 on: February 13, 2014, 07:57:53 PM »
I was responding to your assertion that Kate had opened the shutters, and I simply asked you to point me to the pages in the files where that is supposedly established as fact.

Quote from: stephen25000 on February 10, 2014, 06:56:23 PM

    Who opened the shutters ?

    Ah yes, kate mccann.


kate said the shutters were open..in order to show kate was lying we would need a statement saying the shutters were not open...is there such a statement...no

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Did the PJ conduct a proper search for evidence at OC?
« Reply #36 on: February 13, 2014, 07:58:24 PM »
I was responding to your assertion that Kate had opened the shutters, and I simply asked you to point me to the pages in the files where that is supposedly established as fact.

Quote from: stephen25000 on February 10, 2014, 06:56:23 PM

    Who opened the shutters ?

    Ah yes, kate mccann.


So basically, as far as you are concerned, no one altered the shutters or window ?


Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Did the PJ conduct a proper search for evidence at OC?
« Reply #37 on: February 13, 2014, 08:00:10 PM »
You say that as if they purposely trashed it. 


No that's just you reading into things



Checked the shutters to see if they could be opened from outside,  if not,  they could have wondered if Madeleine had opened them couldn't they?

That doesn't make sense since they've said she couldn't have

Eta

If the mccanns knew instantly MM was abducted they wil have had the nous NOT to let all and sundry in and they let a LOAD of all and sundry in...not 2 or 3 peole but over a dozen, careless and confusing as Gerry said on panorama in nov 07 he was careful not to let people into the bedroom, as IF the abductors footprint DNA or anything else were not in any other part of the apartment!!!!

 >@@(*&)
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 08:17:24 PM by Redblossom »

Lyall

  • Guest
Re: Did the PJ conduct a proper search for evidence at OC?
« Reply #38 on: February 13, 2014, 08:03:27 PM »
kate said the shutters were open..in order to show kate was lying we would need a statement saying the shutters were not open...is there such a statement...no

Schrödinger's Shutters >@@(*&)

Offline Carana

Re: Did the PJ conduct a proper search for evidence at OC?
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2014, 08:05:26 PM »

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Did the PJ conduct a proper search for evidence at OC?
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2014, 08:06:34 PM »
What do you mean, had no power? You mean no legal power or no physical power?

And the fact that the crime scene was trashed is only half of the story. If it made no difference to the collection of forensics that it had already been left open, the criminologist from the PJ would not have bothered giving an order to have it sealed off:

After the arrival of the witness and his colleague Vitor Martins the scene was isolated and the inspection began, namely the collection of statements and inspection of the scene, the respective reports that were subsequently attached to the process documents.
 
The witness carried out finger print testing on the inside of the bedroom window, where the girl had been sleeping, leaving other examinations for the following day given that on that occasion these tests could not be carried out in the best technical conditions. For this reason, the apartments and the surrounding area were sealed off, watched over by the GNR officers who remained on site.
 
As far as he knows, after the first examination, other members from the finger print detection service and also officers from the LPC Crime Scene arrived at the scene.


Furthermore, more forensic officers would not have been summoned to the scene if there was nothing of forensic value there. Rather, more members of the finger print detective service and other forensic experts  arrived.

Err I'm sure military soldier police have the physical power SH!!! yes I was thinking legal power but that was just a thought, and a question, as I dont know,the fact that PJ ordered sealing off the place completely does not negate the loss of forensic evidence, just salvaging the bloody situation IMO

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Did the PJ conduct a proper search for evidence at OC?
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2014, 08:07:50 PM »
Schrödinger's Shutters >@@(*&)

Meow!

 @)(++(*

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Did the PJ conduct a proper search for evidence at OC?
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2014, 08:11:15 PM »
Schrödinger's Shutters >@@(*&)

 8@??)( 8@??)( 8@??)(

Offline Carana

Re: Did the PJ conduct a proper search for evidence at OC?
« Reply #43 on: February 13, 2014, 08:14:24 PM »
There are several police forces in Portugal.

Offline Sherlock Holmes

Re: Did the PJ conduct a proper search for evidence at OC?
« Reply #44 on: February 13, 2014, 08:15:11 PM »
Err I'm sure military soldier police have the physical power SH!!! yes I was thinking legal power but that was just a thought, and a question, as I dont know,the fact that PJ ordered sealing off the place completely does not negate the loss of forensic evidence, just salvaging the bloody situation IMO

That's what I couldn't work out.. in what sense would they not have the legal power?

Not as if the owner of the property was there and objected to people milling around.

I suppose that was part of the problem. Owner absent; OC only managers; McCanns temporary guests. The apartment was under no-one's real jurisdiction; a free for all.