Did the PJ conduct a proper search for evidence at OC?

[pegasus]

I think you might be right.  I certainly seem to have more basic common sense that The PJ.

And then there was always The Phone Pings.  But The PJ were more interested in the phone traffic between The McCanns and Friends.
Did they even look elsewhere?  I don't think so somehow.  And this was all basic detective work.

I don't understand why you can't see what a cock up they made of it all.

The phone analytics were done by Brit experts.
Including the Met's top phone person was in PDL doing this work for the PJ in May 2007.
Here is a link
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/jun/01/ukcrime.madeleinemccann
So are you saying the UK experts did a rubbish job of the phone work?
And yes the PJ followed up on many UK expert phone analytics not related to the parents.

[Lyall]

The PJ needed things like that to track down the passage of Madeleine.  How weak they might have thought it was was irrelevant.

It's not irrelevant because she didn't see the face, hence it's not much use to the police.

I expect they considered that the 9.15 witness may have seen the child being carried away, and worked on that basis. May have, which is exactly how everyone else should have considered it. What good would it have done them to prove she hadn't when their priority is to find a live child? Perhaps they thought of the creche but knew the holidaymakers would be back in the UK by now?

It's more complicated than your PJ bad, SY good analysis allows.

[Eleanor]

The phone analytics were done by Brit experts.
Including the Met's top phone person was in PDL doing this work for the PJ in May 2007.
Here is a link
http://www.theguardian.com/uk/2007/jun/01/ukcrime.madeleinemccann
So are you saying the UK experts did a rubbish job of the phone work?
And yes the PJ followed up on many UK expert phone analytics not related to the parents.

No, I am not saying that The UK Experts did a rubbish job.  Just that The UK Police were not in a position to follow up on the details like Criminal Records, even assuming that they had the names of any subscribers.

And if The PJ followed up on people other than The McCanns, how come they missed the phone traffic that we are now talking about?

[jassi]

No, I am not saying that The UK Experts did a rubbish job.  Just that The UK Police were not in a position to follow up on the details like Criminal Records, even assuming that they had the names of any subscribers.

And if The PJ followed up on people other than The McCanns, how come they missed the phone traffic that we are now talking about?

There is no certainty that this will lead anywhere, either. Merely another stone turned over to see what might crawl out.

[Lyall]

Although one reckons this easily when reading the PJ Files, this is usually ignored. Just because Madeleine wasn't found.

That ought to be the starting point of every narrative about May 2007: the urgency of trying to find a live child. Of course mistakes are made, but it's the same in any investigation in any country when police are desperate to find children they hope are still alive. They didn't have the luxury of being able to take things slowly and work methodically like the British police do now.

And they say no media for a reason, Eleanor. A reason that every police force in the world will understand.

[pegasus]

No, I am not saying that The UK Experts did a rubbish job.  Just that The UK Police were not in a position to follow up on the details like Criminal Records, even assuming that they had the names of any subscribers.

And if The PJ followed up on people other than The McCanns, how come they missed the phone traffic that we are now talking about?

The current investigation is going over again the phone records which Mr Amaral and the UK experts working with him wisely requisitioned from the phone network providers.
Yes the original investigation did check out the mobile phone locations of OC employees.
For example in this way they highlighted and checked out an OC driver.
And another OC worker at Millenium.
Yes the original investigation did check out ALL mobile activity within PDL especially at the time of the JT sighting, and at the time of the Smith sighting, the tables produced by Mr Amarals team with expert UK help are in the files.

[VIXTE]

When collecting the phone data police has to contact many phone traffic providers and they also have to request 'the right' data.. Getting the phone data from the providers is a long process, I believe this has to be authorised by the courts. The EU providers have an obligation to keep the phone data for a certain period of time ( 7 years comes to mind but this needs to be checked out)..

Out of this it is possible that not all of the data was collected and analysed in 2007 and that there was additional data acquired.. possibly even some data arrived after McCanns were made arguidos and this data was no longer of interest..

I think the SY and PJ now have a fuller picture of the phone data.. and that this was acquired additionally.

[Eleanor]

There is no certainty that this will lead anywhere, either. Merely another stone turned over to see what might crawl out.

Yes, I know that.  But I don't think that there is much doubt that a bunch of known Criminal Associates of the dead TractorMan were crawling around PdL that night, and communicating with each other.
Make what you will of that.  But it is at least suspicious, especially as there doesn't seen to have been any burglaries that night. Those of which would have happened before anyone knew that Madeleine was missing.
Actually, the fuss itself would have been an ideal opportunity for burglars since everyone else was preoccupied.

Is there any record of burglaries happening that night?  Or did The PJ miss that as well?

[Eleanor]

That ought to be the starting point of every narrative about May 2007: the urgency of trying to find a live child. Of course mistakes are made, but it's the same in any investigation in any country when police are desperate to find children they hope are still alive. They didn't have the luxury of being able to take things slowly and work methodically like the British police do now.

And they say no media for a reason, Eleanor. A reason that every police force in the world will understand.

Such a pity they didn't find time to close the Borders of check the Marinas.

They never say No Media in France in a possible Abduction situation.  And I don't think they say it in UK either.

[Eleanor]

The current investigation is going over again the phone records which Mr Amaral and the UK experts working with him wisely requisitioned from the phone network providers.
Yes the original investigation did check out the mobile phone locations of OC employees.
For example in this way they highlighted and checked out an OC driver.
And another OC worker at Millenium.
Yes the original investigation did check out ALL mobile activity within PDL especially at the time of the JT sighting, and at the time of the Smith sighting, the tables produced by Mr Amarals team with expert UK help are in the files.

How come they missed Tractor Man and his known Criminal Associates?

[AnneGuedes]

That ought to be the starting point of every narrative about May 2007: the urgency of trying to find a live child. Of course mistakes are made, but it's the same in any investigation in any country when police are desperate to find children they hope are still alive. They didn't have the luxury of being able to take things slowly and work methodically like the British police do now.

See what they did when wee Mikaeel disappeared. The idée fixe was not losing a second, because it could be a second too late.
This is why GNR officers, in Lisbon, were woken up at 2am to get prepared to go to PDL with the best dogs they had.

[Lyall]

Such a pity they didn't find time to close the Borders of check the Marinas.

They never say No Media in France in a possible Abduction situation.  And I don't think they say it in UK either.

Different situation here. A child from another country, and that country just happens to be a country with a notoriously wild tabloid press. If a child goes missing in the UK the police can rely on the papers working with them: I doubt the Portuguese had any such expectation.

If there are procedures in place, like the Amber alert, that's one thing: but if sightings from Timbuktu to Taiwan are going to be splashed across the front pages, that's something else altogether. No police force in the world wants that happening.

[Lyall]

Such a pity they didn't find time to close the Borders of check the Marinas.

They never say No Media in France in a possible Abduction situation.  And I don't think they say it in UK either.

Check the report made for The Sun by Ian Horrocks: he says this 'closing the borders' just doesn't happen and wouldn't have happened in the UK either.

[VIXTE]

See what they did when wee Mikaeel disappeared. The idée fixe was not losing a second, because it could be a second too late.
This is why GNR officers, in Lisbon, were woken up at 2am to get prepared to go to PDL with the best dogs they had.

I agree with this. This part of the search for Madeleine was great.
But the other parts, i.e securing the crime scene, DNA samples collecting such as Madeleine's bedding at the first moment, bin collections stopping, depths of questioning anyone else except the T9 group, dealing with Tannerman sightings, searching the spot where Portuguese dogs lost the scent etc.. these were not up to the standard level.

[pegasus]

Such a pity they didn't find time to close the Borders of check the Marinas.
They never say No Media in France in a possible Abduction situation.  And I don't think they say it in UK either.

The original investigation did contact marinas and obtained arrival/departure dates of large numbers of boats.