There was a night creche yet none of the group saw fit to used it.

[John]

As I understand it, the night creche was not on the Tapas Bar site, but close to the Millennium restaurant, which meant that anyone eating at the Tapas had to walk for their children afterwards.
Presumably the McCanns and their friends didn't want to do this.

As you can see from the map below, the Millennium Restaurant is in a dfferent direction to the main reception.

The night crèche was located above main reception, the same place where the mini club was located which Madeleine attended each day.  There is a whole thread dedicated to the subject of its location.

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2702.0

[Benice]

Benice, it was 2007 not 1957. It's apparent from the interviews that none would have contemplated leaving the apartments unlocked during the daytime when they were out. Enough said.

Continually trying to excuse the inexcusable does your cause no good.

IMO If the group had known that 'break-ins'  had recently taken place in their very own apartment block - I think any idea of mirroring the Babylistening service of checking their children  - would have been immediately abandoned.

MW have a lot to answer for in that respect IMO.

[Lyall]

IMO If the group had known that 'break-ins'  had recently taken place in their very own apartment block - I think any idea of mirroring the Babylistening service of checking their children  - would have been immediately abandoned.

MW have a lot to answer for in that respect IMO.

So you don't believe they left the apartment unlocked?

That's not a feature of the listening service.

[AnneGuedes]

It's apparent from the interviews that none would have contemplated leaving the apartments unlocked during the daytime when they were out. Enough said.

The McCanns are no fools, as their companions they wouldn't have contemplated leaving their flat accessible from the outside. The security of their kids was certainly as crucial for them as it was for the rest of the group. The argument of laziness is very weak : the door-window access was as much the nearest route for the Oldfields and for the McCanns. Besides Mrs Oldfield found the car park scary because of the shadows of the false pepper trees. And also the Oldfield child was too small to get out of her cot.

[Benice]

So you don't believe they left the apartment unlocked?

That's not a feature of the listening service.

I didn't say that.   I said that IMO if they had known about the break-ins at the very start of their holiday they would all have had a completely different attitude towards the Babylistening method of childchecking.

IMO If the McCanns had known that an intruder had been in the apartment above whilst Mrs Fenn was in there, there is no way they would have left their children in their own apartment - full stop.   

[Lyall]

I didn't say that.   I said that IMO if they had known about the break-ins at the very start of their holiday they would all have had a completely different attitude towards the Babylistening method of childchecking.

IMO If the McCanns had known that an intruder had been in the apartment above whilst Mrs Fenn was in there, there is no way they would have left their children in their own apartment - full stop.   

I'm sure you're right there, Benice.

But their version of the listening service wasn't the usual one was it. You're still attempting to excuse leaving the apartment unlocked.

[sadie]

I'm sure you're right there, Benice.

But their version of the listening service wasn't the usual one was it. You're still attempting to excuse leaving the apartment unlocked.

You are right, Lyall.   

It was personal and it involved seeing the children asleep.  Also their checks were more fequent than the recognised ones in hotels, butlins etc.  And they could see the patio doors, which were the only ones unlocked.

[Lyall]

You are right, Lyall.   

It was personal and it involved seeing the children asleep.  Also their checks were more fequent than the recognised ones in hotels, butlins etc.  And they could see the patio doors, which were the only ones unlocked.

You know what I'm going to ask you don't you.

Did anyone see MO go into the apartment? Or come out?

[Benice]

I'm sure you're right there, Benice.

But their version of the listening service wasn't the usual one was it. You're still attempting to excuse leaving the apartment unlocked.

No I'm not trying to excuse anything.   But I can understand WHY they thought it was OK and personally I think their checking arrangements were superior to the Babylistening service offered by tour operators which many other parents were signing up to that night on hoiiday elsewhere.

I don't agree with children under the age of 5/6 being taken abroad in the first place - especially toddlers.    Why subject them to the horrors of long airport waiting times, long plane journeys - with the air pressure problems,  too much heat, etc etc when they're not old enough to know the difference between Blackpool and Benidorm.  They don't even know they are 'abroad'.     But that doesn't mean I think people who do it are bad parents  - I just think they have different priorities to mine.    We are all different.         

[Carew]

You are right, Lyall.   

It was personal and it involved seeing the children asleep. Also their checks were more fequent than the recognised ones in hotels, butlins etc.  And they could see the patio doors, which were the only ones unlocked.

Really?

How many checkers actually saw Madeleine asleep during these "more frequent" checks on the night she disappeared?

[EnolaStraight]

No I'm not trying to excuse anything.   But I can understand WHY they thought it was OK and personally I think their checking arrangements were superior to the Babylistening service offered by tour operators which many other parents were signing up to that night on hoiiday elsewhere.

I don't agree with children under the age of 5/6 being taken abroad in the first place - especially toddlers.    Why subject them to the horrors of long airport waiting times, long plane journeys - with the air pressure problems,  too much heat, etc etc when they're not old enough to know the difference between Blackpool and Benidorm.  They don't even know they are 'abroad'.     But that doesn't mean I think people who do it are bad parents  - I just think they have different priorities to mine.    We are all different.       

Toddlers certainly understand the difference between being able to go to the beach every day, and sitting inside looking at rain. Some of our best holidays with children were beach holidays abroad!

[Carew]

Benice, it was 2007 not 1957. It's apparent from the interviews that none would have contemplated leaving the apartments unlocked during the daytime when they were out. Enough said.

Continually trying to excuse the inexcusable does your cause no good.

Ah........the "safe" 1950`s which lulled the naïve McCann party into their false sense of security...........A time when tiled floors and stone steps weren`t as hard; where swimming pools weren`t as wet and deep and when the night-time wasn`t as dark !

Those were the days.

[EnolaStraight]

The simple fact is they messed up attempting their own inadequate version of a listening service.

They knew full well before boarding the plane that the OC did not offer a listening service, therefore IMO the decision was made beforehand to improvise their own. This was evident with 2 baby monitors being present. The night creche was discarded because the decision had already been made. Had the night creche not been so far away from their apartment then upon arrival this may have swayed them. Instead they made a conscious decision to stick to the original plan and it went wrong with disastrous results.

Never mind though. Let's blame MW, Butlins and other hotels. Spottyman and all the other ridiculous abductors while we are at it. In fact anyone that is not part of that Tapas group will seem to do!

Surely until we know what happened we cannot assign blame.

[Carew]

No I'm not trying to excuse anything.  But I can understand WHY they thought it was OK and personally I think their checking arrangements were superior to the Babylistening service offered by tour operators which many other parents were signing up to that night on hoiiday elsewhere.

I don't agree with children under the age of 5/6 being taken abroad in the first place - especially toddlers.    Why subject them to the horrors of long airport waiting times, long plane journeys - with the air pressure problems,  too much heat, etc etc when they're not old enough to know the difference between Blackpool and Benidorm.  They don't even know they are 'abroad'.     But that doesn't mean I think people who do it are bad parents  - I just think they have different priorities to mine.    We are all different.       

What exactly made it "superior?"

[Benice]

What exactly made it "superior?"

a)Because they were not strangers.
b)Because they could actually go into the apartments - rather than being restricted to listening outside.
c) Because they didn't have to worry whether checks were actually being carried out on time.