An analysis of Nevill’s murder

[scipio_usmc]

CALLING Simong... hello

I found the audio clip I was looking for re JB's commentary on the phone call he claims to have received from NB

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/the-jeremy-bamber-files-exclusive-audio-191151

 >@@(*&)

Isn't it interesing how his story has come full circle.

This version is the same version he gave to police at the scene- that the phone went dead and that he hit redial but could not get through.

During his questioning though he claimed he immediately rang police, nothing about calling the house back.  He also at one point claimed after his father stopped talking that he heard struggling on the other end and possibly shots fired. 

So we have a variety of different stories from Jeremy about the call.  He has apparently returned ot his initial claim but that is a bad idea because that claim is impossible.  The one he made up about hearing struggling is the only plausible one which is why he made that up it was in direct response to the impossibility of his prior claims. 

The testimony at trial was that it would have been impossible for him to ring anyone immediately.  Contrary to his claim that the line went dead, the phone was not hung up at WHF.  The call was ended on his end not at WHF.  It was ende dby him hanging up.  He would have to wait 1-2 minutes for the line to clear before he could dial out.  So it is impossible for him to have hung up and immediately picked up the phone again and hit redial.

This statement you posted hurts him for additional reason though.  He claims there was only one phone in his house, that he was in bed, was woken up and had to travel to reach the phone.  How is it that Nevill had the time to dial, wait for Jeremy to pick up the phone and pass his message before Sheila made him put the phone down?

It would take minutes for all of this to occur. What was Sheila supposedly doing during this?  If Sheila was there all along why would he not be scared to dial, wait for Jeremy to pickup and not afraid to speak but suddenly get scared and put the phone down?

Why would Nevill be scared to try to take away the gun himself and instead call Jeremy to do it knowing it would take time to for Jeremy to answer the phone (if he woke up and answered, given the location there is a chance it would not have woken him up), time for Jeremy to dress, time for Jeremy to drive over, time for Jeremy to try to find a way to get inside the house locked and bolted from the inside?  Why would he be scared to try to take the gun away but not scared to sit on the phone talking as she aimed the gun at him?

If Sheila was going to start shooting then time was of the essence and he needed to disarm her immediately not waste minutes on the phone and then wait another 10 minutes or more for Jeremy to come.

So the call makes no sense just from that perspective, that is strike 1.

The fact he can't keep his story straight about this call even worse. But more significant is that his claim the phone went dead and he immediately either redialed or phoned police is refuted by the evidence.  He can't have immediately dialed period because the line was not hung up at WHF as he claims.  He neded the call and because the line at WHF was not hung up as well he had to wait 1-2 minutes for his line to clear. Testomony of Julie's roomates is that when the line cleared he phoned her. He was unaware his line took 1-2 minutes to clear which means he didn't try to call her until after it already had cleared so apparently he did something else first befoe calling her. He didn't imediately call anyone. This is strike 2.

Worst of all though, the evidence proves the shooting started in the bedroom while the parents were in bed.  Nevill was shot at least 4 times in the bedroom and these wounds rendered him unable to speak. They were not severe enough to disable him though and he fled to the kitchen, June was not as fortunate she passed out before reaching the door.  By the time Nevill got to the kitchen and could have used the phone he coudl not speak.  So he can't have made the phonecall claimed.  This is strike 3.  Stick a fork in Jeremy, he's done.

Yes I know you maintain Nevill ran to the kitchen 2 times to use the phone.  You claim Sheila made him put the phone down and ordered Nevill back to bed and she started shooting when both parents were back in bed then a seocnd time he fled to the kitchen but this time didn't make it to the phone before being killed.  There is no evidence to support your claim and it makes no sense.  If Sheila were in a crazy rage why would she choose not to shoot him in the kitchen as he was on the phone but instead to march him to bed to shoot him in bed?  The only reason you shoot someone in bed is because that is when they are most vulnerable and in the worst position to try to disarm you. It makes no sense whatsoever but this is the best you could come up with to explain how Nevill could have made the phone call.

   

 

[Holly Goodhead]

JB claims he attempted to call back and got the engaged tone.  This is entirely consistent with expert evidence called at trial.  Was NB on phone to EP making a call as per the second log?

[Holly Goodhead]

The killings were done execution style with absolute precision.  Not the sort of thing someone who was in the midst of a breakdown would do. You don't have to be an expert psychiatrist to work that one out.

Many shots were near contact and the max range was a few feet away.  How could even a novice miss?  The one shot that was off-target was the grazing shot to NB's shoulder as he attempted to escape from the bedroom down the stairs.  Surely if execution style with absolute precision the perpetrator would have been successful in shooting NB in the head instead of a grazing shot to the shoulder?

[Holly Goodhead]

Once again you ignore the evidence and common sense.

Jeremy's claim that he was on the phone and that it went dead was proven false by the telephone represeantative who testified a call was made to WHF and never hung up on WHF's end. Rather the phone call was disconnected by the person at Goldhanger hanging up and the line clearing after 1-2 minutes.  The phone can't have gone dead, the line was not cut and the phone wasn't hung up at WHF. Jeremy is the one who ended the call and he did so by hanging up.

So Jeremy lied about the phone going dead and lied when he told Colin that he immediately tried to call back because it would take 1-2 minutes for his line to clear so tha the could make a call. 

The best you can hope to argue based on the evidence is that someone called from WHF and stopped talking and that Jeremy thus hung up.  But if that is the case then why did Jeremy lie and keep telling people the line went dead?  Jeremy himself contradicted this when confronted with such evidence.  He changed his claim to saying that after Nevill stopped talking he heard scuffling and maybe even gunshots. 

You don't want to discuss this because it means he is contradicting himself and at the very minimum was lying in one of these accounts if not both.

The larger issue though is that since the phone call was ended at Goldhanger not WHF this means Jeremy could have dialed his own number, left the phone ringing his number as he traveled home, arrived home and answered the phone and then hung up and this explains the telephone evidence that was presented at tiral which features a call made from WHF that was ended by the phone at Goldhanger hanging up.

So this evidence presented by the telphon company doesn't establish any of the victims made the call rather Jeremy could have done so.  Not only is it  apossibility that Jeremy phoned himself from WHF there is physical evidence to prove that Nevill didn't.

The evidence demonstrates the killer entered the master bedroom and shot Nevill and Sheila as they were in bed.  The killer was towards the foot of the bed not near the door so the door was not blocked.  The victims thus got up and ran towards the door.  June was immobilized but Nevill wasn't and was able to make it to the kichen before being killed.  In the bedroom Nevill suffered shots that tore part of his lip off, shattered his jaw and severed his voicebox so he would have been unable to speak.  If he picked up the phone at best he coudl have dialed (which would have gotten blood on the phone) but would not have been able to speak.  So he can't have told Jeremy what Jeremy claims Nevill told him.

Your babble about Nevill would not want police there, ignores Nevill and June's injuries.  Nevill couldn't speak but even if by some miracle he could speak his hatred of police would not prevent him from calling them for medical help.  The notion that he would have tried to keep police out of it after he and his wife had been shot is absurd.  Jeremy could not provide medical attention to them.  Even if he had called Jeremy instead of 999 he would have declared they were shot and asked Jeremy to call for medical attention.  He would not have announced to just come over to help disarm her he would have said they had been shot.

In order to get aorund this you make up the fiction that Nevill got away from Sheila twice.  According to you she woke up her parents, June stayed in bed while Nevill ran to use the phone and called Jeremy.  Instead of shooting or beating Nevill at that point she marched him back upstairs at gunpoint (and for some reason he complied though he risked being shot as he ran to the kitchen he decided not to take further risk) and wnet back to bed at gunpoint.  Then she began shooting them and he got away a second time ot the kitchen but this time he passed out before reaching the phone a second time.  She then beat his limp body and after she broke the rifle over his head she shot him.  Why did she beat him instead of just shooting him if he passed out?  No explanation from you, you ignore that such makes no sense because in fact your entire tale makes no sense and is not supported by any evidence.

What about the kitchen touchtone phone being unplugged, hidden and replaced by the bedroom dial phone?  You say nothing is suspicious about that at all.  You just deny reality hoping no one will notice.

Why would Sheila hide the phone in advance?  Why would June just stay in bed while Sheila was chasing her husband?  Why would Sheila insist on marching him to bed to shoot him instead of shooting him as he was dialing the phone?  Why would Jeremy lie and claim the phone went dead if in fact it was just dropped and he could hear the commotion going on?  His new account of having heard a struggle and shooting blows your claim out of the water.  His claim is that the struggle and shooting happened right after the phone was knocked out of Nevill's hand. That blows your claim hey were marched upstairs and Nevill ran down a second time right out of the water. Where did this claim come from anyway? You simply made it up there is no evidence at all to support the killer and Nevill leaving the kitchen and returning a second time.

Why did you make it up? Because if Nevill entered the kitchen after he was already shot then the call Jeremy claims he received is impossible and Jeremy is for sure the killer.

Nevill and his wife were definitely in bed when the shooting started.  A crazy person who decided to kill them would not order them to bed and insist on shooting them there. She would shoot them where they were standing.  If she found the in bed th enotion she would not fire as Nevill got up to leave is silly.  The notion June would stay in bed as Sheila ran after her husband is silly. The notion she would order Nevill back to bed to shoot him instead of shooting him in the kitchen is silly.

So too is it silly to suggest that a man who towered over Sheila and was very strong would call his son to come over to disarm her.  By the acoc..t of every relative including Jeremy she had not touched a gun as an adult, never touched the gun in question and thus might not have even been able to load it.  Thus Nevill would not even know if it were loaded.  He was too scared to try to disarm her though instead he had th egun pointed at him as he called Jeremy.  Jeremy had no greater ability to disarm her than Nevill did so why did he need to call Jeremy? In fact, she had a poor relationship with Jeremy so the greatest chance of her shooting would be if jeremy made her even angrier.  Most importantly though Jeremy could not arrive in at least 5-10 minutes and might even take longer to dress and get there.  Why would Nevill wait so long hoping Jeremy would find his way in the locked house instead of trying to disarm her himself?  If I am scared of a smaller woman shooting me would I pick up the phone and present a nice neat target to try to call someone to come disarm her hoping she would not shoot me while on the phone and hoping she would not shoot me for at least 10 minutes so the person can come help or would I jump her?  I would try to grab the weapon myself.               

You ignore all of this and instead put forth a tale contradicted by evidence that makes no sense.

You claim above the killer shot NB and SC in bed!?  I assume you mean NB and June?  In any event NB was not shot in bed.  This can be evidenced from the soc photos and other evidence eg NB's wounds, location of bullets and pathology report.  June was shot in bed and  also out of bed as I assume she attempted to escape or move towards the killer in order to reason/plead?  The twins were also shot in bed.

[scipio_usmc]

Many shots were near contact and the max range was a few feet away.  How could even a novice miss?  The one shot that was off-target was the grazing shot to NB's shoulder as he attempted to escape from the bedroom down the stairs.  Surely if execution style with absolute precision the perpetrator would have been successful in shooting NB in the head instead of a grazing shot to the shoulder?

Novices miss close range shots often and also are way off on hitting where they intend to target.  You are further demonstrating your lack of knowledge about firearms, you clearly never used any.  That being the case you should not simply assume.

At any rate the shot to Nevill's elbow and shoulder were from a distance and presumably delivered as he was on the move.  It is not that easy to hit someone on the move period let alone to hit where you intend to hit.  Do you believe the shoulder and elbow were being targeted, because I sure as hell don't.  How difficult the shots were depends on distance and how fast Nevill was moving.  Even beginners get lucky sometimes though and wildly shooting in his direction as he is moving can result in the wounds received.  So the wounds could be nice shots in the respect that he was hit period while on the move or viewed as poor shots in that they didn't hit anywhere near where was intended.  It depends on how you look at it and the objective truth depends on variables we never will know.

They were in fact killed execution syle though, there is no evidence to support a crazy person just shooting in a rage.

The medicine that Sheila ran out of and didn't take is not medicine that would have calmed her down, it is medicine to help with the shakes and dexterity.  So one has to factor in the dexterity loss that she would have been suffering from.  That would make the shots much more impressive.  If I suffered from such problem my shooting would suffer in turn.

The murders were not carried out perfectly because if they had been then Jeremy would not have been caught.  Even professionals make mistakes but amateurs even moreso.

 

[John]

JB claims he attempted to call back and got the engaged tone.  This is entirely consistent with expert evidence called at trial.  Was NB on phone to EP making a call as per the second log?

Jeremy phoned Julie Mugford around 3am (witnessed by 3 people) and told her about an alleged call he had received from Nevill.  There was no record of any call from the Bambers to police prior to 3.26am.  Next?

[John]

Many shots were near contact and the max range was a few feet away.  How could even a novice miss?  The one shot that was off-target was the grazing shot to NB's shoulder as he attempted to escape from the bedroom down the stairs.  Surely if execution style with absolute precision the perpetrator would have been successful in shooting NB in the head instead of a grazing shot to the shoulder?

A young woman in the midst of an episode could never have done what the killer did that morning.  To suggest otherwise is frankly preposterous imo.

[scipio_usmc]

You claim above the killer shot NB and SC in bed!?  I assume you mean NB and June?  In any event NB was not shot in bed.  This can be evidenced from the soc photos and other evidence eg NB's wounds, location of bullets and pathology report.  June was shot in bed and  also out of bed as I assume she attempted to escape or move towards the killer in order to reason/plead?  The twins were also shot in bed.

There was blood in their bed (on his side and hers) from where they both were shot.  There was blood on the floor after he got out of bed.  They were in bed when the shooting started, they got out of bed after the shooting started because who just stays still being shot?  They were shot in bed, got up and ran for the door to escape the hail of gunfire.  Nevill made it out, June didn't. Was the killer blocking the door?  No the killer was standing near the foot of the bed and towards the window so well inside the room when the killer opened fire.  That is what the evidence shows.

So the killer tried to kill them in their bed and also the twins.  Sheila either woke up on her own and found her mother's body or was woken up by Jeremy and ordered to the bedroom.  Obviously he could not shoot Sheila in bed and then claim it was murder suicide.

This is a big problem for you because you want desperately to find a way to say that Nevill was in the kitchen twice.  You are desperate to find a way to claim Nevill used the kitchen phone then was marched to the bedroom and the shooting finally started there.  It owuld make no sense at all to march him up there instead of shooting him in the kitchen but even less sense to make him get in his bed so you just pretend that he wasn't shot in bed.  It really makes no difference either way.

A person in a crazy rage would open fire while he was on the phone not tell him to put th ephone down and march him upstairs to kill him up there. Nothing you make up to try to find a way to claim it was possible for Nevill to call Jeremy comports with Jeremy's claim of Sheila being in a crazy rage.

Worse yet, it would make ZERO sense to call Jeremy to disarm her which would take at least 10 minutes and possibly longer instead of doing it himself.

So you are in a catch 22:

1) If Sheila had a gun as claimed and were in a rage but had not yet started shooting Nevill would not have called Jeremy to ask him to come disarm Sheila he would have done so himself
 
2) If Sheila already started shooting Nevill would have even more reason to try to disarm her himsel fbut if instead he decided to try to phone for help he would have noted the wounds he and June and suffered and requested medical help not just help to disarm her.  Time would be even more of the essence in this case though he would have to disarm her himself to try to survive.  At any rate he couldn't speak after the shooting started because of his wounds.  So if the shooting started then jeremy's claims are impossible.

So either way you are left with a crap argument.  The evidence though establishes they were in bed, awakened and shot in their bed then got out of bed and fled.  Nevill could not have reached the kitchen until after he already had been shot so the phone call is not merely improbable but impossible. 



 

[Myster]

I see no blood on Nevill's side of the bed, scipio... although the pillow is indented where his head was lying.
From this it seems June was the first victim, and Nevill got up before he was shot, while standing on his side of the bed or at the foot.

[scipio_usmc]

Holly: "JB claims he attempted to call back and got the engaged tone.  This is entirely consistent with expert evidence called at trial.  Was NB on phone to EP making a call as per the second log?"

Jeremy phoned Julie Mugford around 3am (witnessed by 3 people) and told her about an alleged call he had received from Nevill.  There was no record of any call from the Bambers to police prior to 3.26am.  Next?

You forgot to mention 2 things.

There was no log of a second call.  Holly is intentionally misrepresenting that there was a police log of a call from Nevill.  The supposed second log was from a dispatcher who spoke to the cop Jeremy called.  The log clearly indicates that the cop Jeremy spoke to claled him to dispatch a car.  Such cop has never suggested he received a call from Nevill as well as from the cop.

Even Jeremy's lawyers have given up on this bogus cliam.  Anyone still asserting this claim is intentionally lying which harms their crediblity.

Worse yet, the testimony at trial from the phone company contradicts it.  The phone company asserted 1 call and only 1 call was made from WHF during the overnight of the murders.  That one call was ended not at WHF but rather at Goldhanger.  The phone company said that the phone was never hung up at WHF but rather was ended by Jeremy hanging up and that it woudl take 1-2 minutes for his line to clear before he could dial out.

How is this consistent with Jeremy's claims let alone the claim Nevill subsequently called police?

The phone company said no other calls wer emad etha tnight and in fact oculd not be made because the phone was off the hook from the point of dialing Goldhanger forward.  It was never hung up so a subsequent call was impossible and there was no record anyway of any other calls.

This means Jeremy hung up the line did not go dead.  So he is caught in a lie and caught in anothe rlie because he could not have immediately phoned WHF back after hanging up because it would take 1-2 minutes for the line to clear.

So Holly is left with egg on her face, the evidence at trial thoroughly contradicts Jeremy's claims and also her fairytale.

Let's just look at her story common sense wise.

Nevill calls Jeremy, hangs up the phone then dials police.  Set aside for the momement that the evidence proves these claims bunk.  Just from a common sense persepctive how does he have all this time to make these phonecalls?  Where is Sheila that he is able to make these phonecalls?  If she is there in the kitchen why would she not open fire?  Why would she just sit there yelling at him?  Why would she order him back to the bedroom instead of shooting him ther ein the kitchen either while on the phone or after he gets off?

Holly is ignoring both the evidence as well as common sense and even the allegations Jeremy asserted was going on.  She asserts Sheila was going crazy but comes up with fairytale scenarios completely inconsistent with such.  So at the end of the day Holly makes claims:

1) contradicted by the evidence

2) that make no sense

3) that are not consistent with SHeila being in a crazy rage as Jeremy claims was going on

3 strikes and you are out. 




 

[John]

I see no blood on Nevill's side of the bed, scipio... although the pillow is indented where his head was lying.
From this it seems June was the first victim, and Nevill got up before he was shot, while standing on his side of the bed or at the foot.

I agree, the spread of the bullet casings indicates that Nevill was shot just inside the bedroom door.  The way I visualise it Nevill heard a noise and got out of bed to investigate leaving June in bed.  He was shot probably as he opened the bedroom door and staggered back to the end of the bed where he was shot again.  June was shot first in the head as she lay or sat on the bed.  The blood on the pillow indicates that she was either lying on her pillow or fell back onto it initially before getting up only to be shot again.  A most callous series of events.

As has been posted on another thread Jeremy was probably shocked to find one bullet wasn't enough to floor Nevill so had to run downstairs to get more ammunition.   This was when Nevill decided to pursue him.

The unanswered question for me in all of this though is, where was Sheila at this time or was she locked in her bedroom?

[scipio_usmc]

I see no blood on Nevill's side of the bed, scipio... although the pillow is indented where his head was lying.
From this it seems June was the first victim, and Nevill got up before he was shot, while standing on his side of the bed or at the foot.

There were drops of blood found on his side as well as on the run where he got up.  2 bullets that hit June exited her body so her half had 2 bullets as well as considerably more blood. His wounds did not exit so blood merely dripped as he got up.

The shell casings were near the foot of the bed and towards where Sheila's body was not near the door.

What this tells us is the killer was not blocking the door but rather well inside the room which explains why both parents ran towards the door.  If the killer had been at the door then maybe I could see Nevill charging to disarm the killer but not June doing so as well she would have fled the hail of gunfire.   

I do not think it is coincidence that Sheila's body was roughly where the killer was standing when he opened fire at the parents.  I think that placement was intentional. I think it is even someone likely that he marched Sheila in and shot her first there then turned the gun on his parents.  That actually would have provided them with additional time to move instead of being slaughtered in bed.  It is also possible though he made her sit there after they had already been shot.

If Nevill never made it out of the bedroom then it would have looked like she killed her kids then went in her parent's room shot them and then shot herself. It would look like she shot them and then standing int he sae location that she shot the she shot herself. Neville making it downstairs through a monkey wrench in the works and was definitely not part of the plan. 

If not for that fact, it would be harder to prove the phone call was impossible.  If Nevill died int he bedroom he could have placed the phone back and pretended Nevill called from there.  How could we say which wounds were delivered first?  We know which wounds came first simply because the shooting started upstairs and ended downstairs and the fatal ones had to be downstairs so the ones rendering him unable to speak had to be upstairs.

He therefore could not speak before he reached the phone. 

So Nevill going dowstairs ruined 2 things.  It ruined his phone claims but also runied the scene he staged.  People say why did Sheila shoot herself in the bedroom. That position was roughly where he shot his parents so that is why she was shot there it was supposed to be her shooting them and then herself from the same position.  Nevill escaping ruined that and thus rendered the location suspect to people.  But for that it would not be as suspect.

People rarely try to put all the pieces together in reconstructing the scene. Jeremy did have a decent plan.  The lack of GSR and ultimately the suppressor still could have been his undoing but his frame would have been much better had it not been for the Nevill escaping.  The beating etc would not have occurred nor would the paint tie the suppressor to the scene just the blood would have.

If people look at everything his frame can be seen in a new light.  A little better execution and he could have gotten away with it.   

Here are what some think his plan was:

A) Kill parents in bedroom with the gun loaded with 11 rounds (1 in chamber 10 in the mag)

Exclusive of Sheila 11 rounds were fired in the bedroom

B) March Sheila to the location in the room where he shot his parents and make it appear she shot them then immediately shot herself 

C) Shoot the kids

10 rounds were used on Sheila and the kids (a full mag)

The 4 rounds fired in the kitchen are the odd men out.  They were not planned as necessary. It is assumed he ran out of bullets and this is why Nevill was able to jump him and the struggle ensued.  It is also possible though he simply got jumped as he entered and had already partially reloaded.  Either before or after the struggle Jeremy partially reloaded and fired 4 shots into Nevill's head.  Then he loaded a full mag and went back to kill the twins and Sheila.

This is one of the most prevailing theories but the order of reloading and firing will never fully be known.       
     

[Holly Goodhead]

Isn't it interesing how his story has come full circle.

This version is the same version he gave to police at the scene- that the phone went dead and that he hit redial but could not get through.

During his questioning though he claimed he immediately rang police, nothing about calling the house back.  He also at one point claimed after his father stopped talking that he heard struggling on the other end and possibly shots fired. 

So we have a variety of different stories from Jeremy about the call.  He has apparently returned ot his initial claim but that is a bad idea because that claim is impossible.  The one he made up about hearing struggling is the only plausible one which is why he made that up it was in direct response to the impossibility of his prior claims. 

The testimony at trial was that it would have been impossible for him to ring anyone immediately.  Contrary to his claim that the line went dead, the phone was not hung up at WHF.  The call was ended on his end not at WHF.  It was ende dby him hanging up.  He would have to wait 1-2 minutes for the line to clear before he could dial out.  So it is impossible for him to have hung up and immediately picked up the phone again and hit redial.

This statement you posted hurts him for additional reason though.  He claims there was only one phone in his house, that he was in bed, was woken up and had to travel to reach the phone.  How is it that Nevill had the time to dial, wait for Jeremy to pick up the phone and pass his message before Sheila made him put the phone down?

It would take minutes for all of this to occur. What was Sheila supposedly doing during this?  If Sheila was there all along why would he not be scared to dial, wait for Jeremy to pickup and not afraid to speak but suddenly get scared and put the phone down?

Why would Nevill be scared to try to take away the gun himself and instead call Jeremy to do it knowing it would take time to for Jeremy to answer the phone (if he woke up and answered, given the location there is a chance it would not have woken him up), time for Jeremy to dress, time for Jeremy to drive over, time for Jeremy to try to find a way to get inside the house locked and bolted from the inside?  Why would he be scared to try to take the gun away but not scared to sit on the phone talking as she aimed the gun at him?

If Sheila was going to start shooting then time was of the essence and he needed to disarm her immediately not waste minutes on the phone and then wait another 10 minutes or more for Jeremy to come.

So the call makes no sense just from that perspective, that is strike 1.

The fact he can't keep his story straight about this call even worse. But more significant is that his claim the phone went dead and he immediately either redialed or phoned police is refuted by the evidence.  He can't have immediately dialed period because the line was not hung up at WHF as he claims.  He neded the call and because the line at WHF was not hung up as well he had to wait 1-2 minutes for his line to clear. Testomony of Julie's roomates is that when the line cleared he phoned her. He was unaware his line took 1-2 minutes to clear which means he didn't try to call her until after it already had cleared so apparently he did something else first befoe calling her. He didn't imediately call anyone. This is strike 2.

Worst of all though, the evidence proves the shooting started in the bedroom while the parents were in bed.  Nevill was shot at least 4 times in the bedroom and these wounds rendered him unable to speak. They were not severe enough to disable him though and he fled to the kitchen, June was not as fortunate she passed out before reaching the door.  By the time Nevill got to the kitchen and could have used the phone he coudl not speak.  So he can't have made the phonecall claimed.  This is strike 3.  Stick a fork in Jeremy, he's done.

Yes I know you maintain Nevill ran to the kitchen 2 times to use the phone.  You claim Sheila made him put the phone down and ordered Nevill back to bed and she started shooting when both parents were back in bed then a seocnd time he fled to the kitchen but this time didn't make it to the phone before being killed.  There is no evidence to support your claim and it makes no sense.  If Sheila were in a crazy rage why would she choose not to shoot him in the kitchen as he was on the phone but instead to march him to bed to shoot him in bed?  The only reason you shoot someone in bed is because that is when they are most vulnerable and in the worst position to try to disarm you. It makes no sense whatsoever but this is the best you could come up with to explain how Nevill could have made the phone call.

Scipio the above are your views, beliefs, opinions which you are perfectly entitled to hold.  What the above doesn't do however is provide any evidence whatsoever that JB is the perpetrator, no more than anything I have ever posted does either.

You make so many assumptions:

- How do you know SC made NB put the phone down?
- How do you know the reason NB called JB?

The natural assumption seems to be for assistance to disarm but it could just as well be to clarify for SC that her parents did not intend to move her back to Essex against her will and/or have the twins removed from her care.  We do not know the family dynamics.  We do know from Dr Ferguson's wit stat that SC harboured very disturbed thoughts about June and the twins.  She saw NB as a support and mentor in her life.  Dr F states that she made no ref to JB.  If she felt JB was a threat then she is likely to have mentioned this to her psychiatrist.  I believe she also discussed with her psychiatrist that she saw her friend Freddie as the devil.  From this it appears she felt neutral about JB.  No reference positively (as with NB) or negatively (as with June, the twins, Freddie).  Perhaps NB felt JB would act as an ally in whatever point(s) he wanted to get over in an attempt to pacify and calm SC down.  SC may have even asked NB to call JB as she wanted to confirm with JB what NB was telling her.

No doubt you will attempt to lambaste the above but the fact is you do not know no more than I do as we were not there.  All that is known is that JB claims he received a call from NB telling him:

1. SC is going crazy
2. SC has the gun

And asking him:

1. Come over

The above does not equate to disarming. 

You constantly misquote me.  Please can you produce a post of mine where I have stated the following which I have extracted from your post above:

"Yes I know you maintain Nevill ran to the kitchen 2 times to use the phone.  You claim Sheila made him put the phone down and ordered Nevill back to bed and she started shooting when both parents were back in bed then a seocnd time he fled to the kitchen but this time didn't make it to the phone before being killed.  There is no evidence to support your claim and it makes no sense".

You are right it makes no sense so why would I have posted it? 

You also state: "Testomony of Julie's roomates is that when the line cleared he phoned her".

Were the roommates there?  How could they testify?  They testified about the time JB made the call to JM.  These times varied due to clocks being fast/slow and I would say people being half asleep and misinterpreting.  Even the clock in the police station was out by 10 mins.  How can any of this be reliable?

There is no way anyone can prove or disprove the said call was made.  JB claims he received a call from NB.  He attempted to call back a couple of times and claims he heard the engaged tone. This would take some 60 secs.  He then looked up the local number for the police station.  This would take at least another 60 secs.  Expert evidence at trial said had NB left the phone off hook it would take some 1 - 2 mins for the line to clear.  By the time JB rang the local police station the line would have cleared regardless of whether NB replaced the receiver or not.  Even if he called JM first the line could have cleared.  In any event at trial the second log hadn't surfaced so it was thought the phone off the hook was connected to the call JB claims to have received from NB.  It could be completely unrelated eg NB calling EP as per second log. 

In the judge's summing up he said the jury needed to decide whether JB was telling the truth re the phone call.  If at trial it could be established by way of telephony technology or other means that JB invented the call then the judge would not have posed the above question for the jury to deliberate over would he?  It would have been game over for JB and you and I in all likelihood might never have had the pleasure of exchanging posts 

[scipio_usmc]

I agree, the spread of the bullet casings indicates that Nevill was shot just inside the bedroom door.  The way I visualise it Nevill heard a noise and got out of bed to investigate leaving June in bed.  He was shot probably as he opened the bedroom door and staggered back to the end of the bed where he was shot again.  June was shot first in the head as she lay or sat on the bed.  The blood on the pillow indicates that she was either lying on her pillow or fell back onto it initially before getting up only to be shot again.  A most callous series of events.

As has been posted on another thread Jeremy was probably shocked to find one bullet wasn't enough to floor Nevill so had to run downstairs to get more ammunition.   This was when Nevill decided to pursue him.

The unanswered question for me in all of this though is, where was Sheila at this time or was she locked in her bedroom?

There were blood stains not merely near the door but rather where Nevill would have gotten out of bed. There were no casings in the hall where they would be expected if he had been shot as he opened the door moreover many shots would have been fired into him before June would ever be able to be targeted.  Fleeing past the killer and the killer then plugging June and her also approaching the killer while Nevill was on the way to the kitchen makes no sense.

The evidence suggests the killer entered the room and was at the foot of the bed when the shooting began.  Both parents then fled for the door. June was wounded too severely and fell and while on the floor was finished off at close range.

Jeremy did not need to run downstairs to get more ammo.  He used an ammo carrier. He didn't expect to need mor eammo to finish Nevill but did expect to need more for the kids and Sheila so had an ammo carrier with him.  If they had additional magazines this would not have been necessary.  The ammo carrier and suppressor were side by side.  If they didn't have na mmo carrier then he would have taken the box of bullets upstairs with him.  He didn't need to though because of the ammo carrier.

The ammo carrier would not fit in neatly with his crazy claims so he instead took a box of 30 rounds, placed it in the kitchen and lied and claimed it had been full and that Sheila used these bullets.  That was part of his undoing, he should have made sure the box had no more than 25 rounds in it.  He didn't count how many shots he had fired or try to make the total left in the box match up to same.  Is it easy to count round fired?  Actually no.  It is easy to lose count.  On the range I have lost count at times and that is a controlled environment and you have a 30 round mag so if you don't use them all you oculd then count the remaining number and figure out how many you used.  That luxury doesn't exist if you partially load a mag and that is mixed in with the other chaos.

In evaluating claims Sheila did it we have to also take into account the bullet box did not move so she would have needed to go downstairs to reload and that the bullets in the box do not accord with his claims of being full and her firing 25 shots. 

When we look at the fact he did the shooting though we should not pretend he suffered the same limitations though, he used an ammo carrier so could reload on site.  Having to load a magazine takes more time than to just take a fresh magazine and slap it in the weapon.  So this presents a window to try to disarm him. That must be remembered as well.

[John]

Holly, there is no dubiety about the timings of the telephone calls.   The very earliest call to the police at Chelmsford Police Station was at 3.26am and that was made by Jeremy.  There was no second call, the second log relates to the report being passed to the control room for action.

Julie and her pals timed the call from Jeremy at between 3am and 3.10am and he spent some minutes waiting and chatting.  This ties in with his call to police at 3.26am.