Jeremy Bamber - The Aga cooker and its relevance to the burn marks on Nevill

[Padgates staff]

Can I ask a couple of questions please?
The marks on the area around the agar, I think they say the 'mantle' but I class a mantle piece as a sideboard and not the bit round a fire and a shelf above a fire.
From the crime scene photo's i cannot see the alleged scratches/marks/bullet marks made in a fight/scuffle/altercation, so when were they made?

Why did the relative's suspect Jeremy of the murders and why?

[John]

Can I ask a couple of questions please?
The marks on the area around the agar, I think they say the 'mantle' but I class a mantle piece as a sideboard and not the bit round a fire and a shelf above a fire.
From the crime scene photo's i cannot see the alleged scratches/marks/bullet marks made in a fight/scuffle/altercation, so when were they made?

Why did the relative's suspect Jeremy of the murders and why?

They are under the shelf on which the spice rack and the torch etc are sitting.

[Myster]

Can I ask a couple of questions please?
The marks on the area around the agar, I think they say the 'mantle' but I class a mantle piece as a sideboard and not the bit round a fire and a shelf above a fire.
From the crime scene photo's i cannot see the alleged scratches/marks/bullet marks made in a fight/scuffle/altercation, so when were they made?

Why did the relative's suspect Jeremy of the murders and why?

If Jeremy Bamber was holding the rifle with say his left hand gripping the stock and his right hand holding it midway up and attempting to batter Nevill with it, or if they were wrestling for control of it (assuming that Nevill was still capable of providing any resistance) then the moderator end could have come into contact with the underside of the mantleshelf creating the marks before it was pulled away from it. (you might have seen my theory of how the scratches could have been created in the Marks under the Mantleshelf thread)

The rifle with moderator fitted is quite long and it would have been difficult to control the end of it.... the lampshade could have been shattered by the end in a similar way.

***********************************************

Simply because they knew from the outset (a gut instinct if you like) that Sheila was not capable of carrying it out... her slight frame, her inability to use and load a rifle, her sedated state caused by the monthly Haloperidol injections.

When the family (Ann Eaton, David Boutflour, Colin Caffell) and Julie Mugford were gathered together at Bourtree Cottage to make statements they overheard some of the things that Jeremy Bamber had said to the police and things that he told them directly didn't ring true. (leaving the rifle out overnight when there were two six year old boys present, for example)

It was only through the persistence of Robert Boutflour (Bobby) hounding the police that the course of the investigation took a different turn.

[goatboy]

It could also be argued the family took a risk by accusing Jeremy of having a financial motive for the murders. It could be argued that they also had a financial motive.

[Dillon]

Can I ask a couple of questions please?
The marks on the area around the agar, I think they say the 'mantle' but I class a mantle piece as a sideboard and not the bit round a fire and a shelf above a fire.
From the crime scene photo's i cannot see the alleged scratches/marks/bullet marks made in a fight/scuffle/altercation, so when were they made?

Why did the relative's suspect Jeremy of the murders and why?

If Jeremy Bamber was holding the rifle with say his left hand gripping the stock and his right hand holding it midway up and attempting to batter Nevill with it, or if they were wrestling for control of it (assuming that Nevill was still capable of providing any resistance) then the moderator end could have come into contact with the underside of the mantleshelf creating the marks before it was pulled away from it. (you might have seen my theory of how the scratches could have been created in the Marks under the Mantleshelf thread)

The rifle with moderator fitted is quite long and it would have been difficult to control the end of it.... the lampshade could have been shattered by the end in a similar way.

***********************************************

Simply because they knew from the outset (a gut instinct if you like) that Sheila was not capable of carrying it out... her slight frame, her inability to use and load a rifle, her sedated state caused by the monthly Haloperidol injections.

When the family (Ann Eaton, David Boutflour, Colin Caffell) and Julie Mugford were gathered together at Bourtree Cottage to make statements they overheard some of the things that Jeremy Bamber had said to the police and things that he told them directly didn't ring true. (leaving the rifle out overnight when there were two six year old boys present, for example)

It was only through the persistence of Robert Boutflour (Bobby) hounding the police that the course of the investigation took a different turn.

Members of the family who had known Sheila, warts and all, since early childhood and knew of her positive state of mind at the time of her visit to WHF with the twins did not beleive that she could have been responsible.  When more of the facts in the case became available, including the brutal battering of Nevill and multiple, accurate shots with a .22 , then this already strong belief was reinforced. Many members of the extended family did not know Jeremy well . He had been away a lot and did not mix much with the farming community.
However, people who did know Jeremy, were aware that he is very devious and an accomplished liar. In another life he could have been a successful con man. He has continued to con people whilst in prison and works on the principle that if you repeat a lie often enough, for example in relation to the severity of Sheila's mental health problems, then people will begin to beleive you. Sadly, there would seem to be a small group of probably well meaning and sincere individuals who have and continue to be taken in by his deception. Some of them have wasted an awful lot of time and energy on his cause. Some appear to have been simply dumped when they no longer appear useful to him. Jeremy can appear to be a very charming and attractive man when it suits him with the veneer of articulate, confident politesse which is a feature of being a product of private boarding education. 

[Padgates staff]

Great post Dillon, I can imagine Jeremy telling a lie and proving it and using the mantra that if you say something for long enough people will believe it too.

[Angelo222]

Jeremy's story about using the rifle the previous evening was invented as was the tale he concocted about leaving the rifle on the settle with the disengage magazine lying nearby.  Just think about it for a moment.

The only reason Jeremy told police this was to account for his fresh prints being on the rifle and the magazine.  As for leaving the rifle on the settle when two young boys were visiting, this was a non starter.  Even if he had done such a thing then Nevill or June would have put the rifle and the magazine away out of the boys sight.

The police in initially falling for this story just showed how naïve they were back in 1985. Taff Jones was an idiot and clearly was removed from the case because of incompetence.

[jackiepreece]

Re this

However, people who did know Jeremy, were aware that he is very devious and an accomplished liar. In another life he could have been a successful con man. He has continued to con people whilst in prison and works on the principle that if you repeat a lie often enough, for example in relation to the severity of Sheila's mental health problems, then people will begin to beleive you. Sadly, there would seem to be a small group of probably well meaning and sincere individuals who have and continue to be taken in by his deception. Some of them have wasted an awful lot of time and energy on his cause. Some appear to have been simply dumped when they no longer appear useful to him. Jeremy can appear to be a very charming and attractive man when it suits him with the veneer of articulate, confident politesse which is a feature of being a product of private boarding education.


I have never found most of the above to be true from my conversations and letters with Jeremy, I find him very naive and appears to be completely led by the campaign team. I don't think he is aware of half of the stuff that is written and put on the web about him and some of the stuff is rubbish.
The official campaign team keep posting about an interview being carried out with him so that would be an ideal time to put all the searching questions to him.
If the campaign team had been more open to mark Williams Thomas when he was making his documentary they might have had some input instead of throwing their toys out of the pram because they were not the first to know about it I was.
Instead of heavily criticising Mark they could do with his help right now.

[Angelo222]

So who are these shadowy nameless characters you refer to as a Campaign Team Jackie?

I believe Daniele Hammond is one and a Lorna Lake although the latter sound quite fake? 

[John]

So who are these shadowy nameless characters you refer to as a Campaign Team Jackie?

I believe Daniele Hammond is one and a Lorna Lake although the latter sound quite fake?

To be honest Dave I don't think Jack knows who runs the campaign any more.   

[Dillon]

Re this

However, people who did know Jeremy, were aware that he is very devious and an accomplished liar. In another life he could have been a successful con man. He has continued to con people whilst in prison and works on the principle that if you repeat a lie often enough, for example in relation to the severity of Sheila's mental health problems, then people will begin to beleive you. Sadly, there would seem to be a small group of probably well meaning and sincere individuals who have and continue to be taken in by his deception. Some of them have wasted an awful lot of time and energy on his cause. Some appear to have been simply dumped when they no longer appear useful to him. Jeremy can appear to be a very charming and attractive man when it suits him with the veneer of articulate, confident politesse which is a feature of being a product of private boarding education.


I have never found most of the above to be true from my conversations and letters with Jeremy, I find him very naive and appears to be completely led by the campaign team. I don't think he is aware of half of the stuff that is written and put on the web about him and some of the stuff is rubbish.
The official campaign team keep posting about an interview being carried out with him so that would be an ideal time to put all the searching questions to him.
If the campaign team had been more open to mark Williams Thomas when he was making his documentary they might have had some input instead of throwing their toys out of the pram because they were not the first to know about it I was.
Instead of heavily criticising Mark they could do with his help right now.

Jackie, this forum allows members to express their own views and we can disagree about Bamber's credibility as long as we do so with respect to each other, as you have. I agree that he probably has a mixed up perspective on what is said about him as I understand that he does not have direct access to the internet.

IMO an interview however searching with him would be fruitless as I am convinced from his contradictory statements over the years and from other information from various sources ( not the reviled members of the family ) that he is a competent liar . For obvious reasons, these sources have to kept confidential to protect the privacy of the individuals concerned so I suppose can be written off as hearsay etc if you like. They do come from sources which are in no way connected to each other ( eg Prison Service ).  As, fortunately, Guantanamo type questioning techniques are not permitted here any ordinary interview is unlikely to get this man to reveal the truth about what went on at WHF on the night of the murders.   

[John]

I have spoken to several former prisoners who shared space with Jeremy at various prisons and without exception they all say GUILTY AS HELL.  Their words, not mine!

Most also referred to his cocky and arrogant behaviour which really doesn't go down too well in such an environment.  He seemingly keeps a small group of trusted friends around him.

Some of these guys are now authors in their own right and quite capable of seeing through the spin. They told me that Jeremy believes his own lies now so really any interview with him now would be worthless as far as events which took place at the farm are concerned.

[puglove]

So who are these shadowy nameless characters you refer to as a Campaign Team Jackie?

I believe Daniele Hammond is one and a Lorna Lake although the latter sound quite fake?

Yes, who ARE the campaign team? And what do they actually do? Why aren't they stripping off and chaining themselves to the Houses of Parliament?

[Dillon]

So who are these shadowy nameless characters you refer to as a Campaign Team Jackie?

I believe Daniele Hammond is one and a Lorna Lake although the latter sound quite fake?

Yes, who ARE the campaign team? And what do they actually do? Why aren't they stripping off and chaining themselves to the Houses of Parliament?

Don't be silly, Shona. Even the beloved Jeremy is not worth get frost bitten boobs or balls for .... I think . Or maybe, dear old Lookout wouldn't mind sacrificing her probably rather dangly and shriveled bits for the cause. Or the great Michael Teskowski ( champion burglar emeritus ) might be prepared to display his no doubt ample man boobs and spreading tum to the bitter elements but then he is a busy guy travelling here there and everywhere interviewing " informants " . Or poor Lugg whose naked blue bod would scare a few tourists off .
I expect the moderators will trash this post as being not in the spirit of the truce. Then NGB ... will probably arrive by helicopter to join the great protest. Jeremy ... well I guess another day of watching tele, a stint in the gym, a bit in the braille workshop, a spliff or two and some more plotting before bedtime over the cocoa as to how to shaft those relatives etc who had the sheer impudence to thwart the big plan . 

[puglove]

So who are these shadowy nameless characters you refer to as a Campaign Team Jackie?

I believe Daniele Hammond is one and a Lorna Lake although the latter sound quite fake?

Yes, who ARE the campaign team? And what do they actually do? Why aren't they stripping off and chaining themselves to the Houses of Parliament?

Don't be silly, Shona. Even the beloved Jeremy is not worth get frost bitten boobs or balls for .... I think . Or maybe, dear old Lookout wouldn't mind sacrificing her probably rather dangly and shriveled bits for the cause. Or the great Michael Teskowski ( champion burglar emeritus ) might be prepared to display his no doubt ample man boobs and spreading tum to the bitter elements but then he is a busy guy travelling here there and everywhere interviewing " informants " . Or poor Lugg whose naked blue bod would scare a few tourists off .
I expect the moderators will trash this post as being not in the spirit of the truce. Then NGB ... will probably arrive by helicopter to join the great protest. Jeremy ... well I guess another day of watching tele, a stint in the gym, a bit in the braille workshop, a spliff or two and some more plotting before bedtime over the cocoa as to how to shaft those relatives etc who had the sheer impudence to thwart the big plan .

I'm at a stage in my life when imagining a naked Lugg might possibly tip me into the menopause. If so many people feel so incredibly strongly that Bamber is innocent, why do they just chunter among themselves and try to convince each other that he was a twinkly-eyed scamp? They have so much evidence (yes, you, Mike. You promised if the last CCRC thing failed, you'd bring out your twin guns of an image of Sheila and the phone logs) that surely he must be just a heartbeat away from release. After 27 long, fruitless years. Today, I've read that Sheila burnt Ralph's neck with the gun as he went downstairs (?), the shots to the family were random (the boys?) and, to top it all, why are there photos of Bamber at the funeral? Yes, there were, Luggy who pretended that you had no knowledge of the Bamber case (you utter plum), but BG was talking about the memorial service, that Bamber couldn't be ar$ed to attend. Seriously. Bamber loved/loves his dad so much, he walks with him every day. Couldn't be f..ked to attend his church service, though. Probably getting all the goodies valued.