Translated documents are prone to errors.

[John]

It goes without saying that there are words which sometimes do not translate into English, I know I found this when I first lived in Spain.  Naively, at the beginning I thought that all words can be translated but that isn't always the case.  The classic example of this in the McCann case is the Portuguese word arguido.  There is no equivalent word in English for this entity since such a designation does not exist in the United Kingdom.

The question raised in this thread simply is, can a mistranslated word make such a difference?  My own experience is that it certainy can.

[AnneGuedes]

I wonder if they had the files translated, actually. No source, no mention of an accredited firm or individual translators.
If they had noted strong misleading errors, wouldn't they have published (at least) corrections on their site ? For the sake of the truth ?

[Lyall]

I wonder if they had the files translated, actually. No source, no mention of an accredited firm or individual translators.
If they had noted strong misleading errors, wouldn't they have published (at least) corrections on their site ? For the sake of the truth ?

Good point. It's one of the reasons why I rushed to buy and read their book (seriously): to read something new. Only to find absolutely nothing.

Quite an achievement to publish 392 pages with nothing that surprises on a single one of them.

[AnneGuedes]

Good point. It's one of the reasons why I rushed to buy and read their book (seriously): to read something new. Only to find absolutely nothing.

Quite an achievement to publish 392 pages with nothing that surprises on a single one of them.

I knew only too well from my interviews with the PJ how words and meanings could get lost in translation
Spreading doubts, instead of taking advantage of the book to explain what had been lost in translation.
A pity, regarding the truth.

[Eleanor]

I knew only too well from my interviews with the PJ how words and meanings could get lost in translation
Spreading doubts, instead of taking advantage of the book to explain what had been lost in translation.
A pity, regarding the truth.

I expect that there was too much to try to explain.
This is not a critisism as such because there were always going to be problems with the language barrier.  We have witnessed this many times, when different nuances have been attached to the same word, often quite genuinely.
There are words in French to which it is almost impossible to give a direct translation, so I wouldn't be surprised if this applies to Portuguese.

[Lyall]

I expect that there was too much to try to explain.
This is not a critisism as such because there were always going to be problems with the language barrier.  We have witnessed this many times, when different nuances have been attached to the same word, often quite genuinely.
There are words in French to which it is almost impossible to give a direct translation, so I wouldn't be surprised if this applies to Portuguese.

It wasn't that kind of book I've been told many, many times. It was a fundraiser, and primarily about Kate. But there is a problem there: you write a book to fund a search but the book barely mentions the search (very barely). That doesn't look good when you're simultaneously taking legal action against another writer for allegedly hampering the search you yourself chose not to highlight in your own book.

[Benice]

Your argument that a professional and sworn interpretor would had mistranslated "all shut" into "all open", and twice, in the first statements, (the second, the collective one that says "all shut", is in English), if not bad faith, at least sounds like it !
Careful, Benice, because this kind of forced and unjustified defence is singularly counterproductive.

On the contrary Anne - somewhere in the files - I haven't got time to look now - it says in one statement that the alert to cuddlecat was later confirmed and in another that the alert to cuddlecat was not later confirmed.

What a difference just one word can make. 

Another example is in the statement of one of the bar staff who claims he saw people leaving the table to 'control' the children.   That is obviously wrong - and the word 'check' should have been used.  Control means something completely different.

I am not criticising the interpretators - but I do not believe that no mistakes were ever made - and even the smallest mistake can completely change the meaning of a sentence.

If interpreting from one language to another is as straightforward and simple as you seem to be sayng then this note from an interpretor would surely not exist regarding Matthew Oldfields statement.

QUOTE
905 to 917 Witness statement of Matthew David Oldfield 2007.05.10
918-Consent for mouth swab for Matthew David Oldfield
TRANSLATION BY ALBYM
 
04-Processo 04 Page 905 to 917
 
 
[M Oldfield's  Statement 10th May Again, there were several omissions from, and errors in, the original Portuguese. I corrected those that I found. Also, much of the Portuguese statement is written with a convoluted 'future + past' verb construct that attributes an 'uncertainty' to the words, whereas I have translated much of it in a non-literal manner to make it read more definitively. Hence, the reader must understand that neither the Portuguese nor my translation necessarily constitute the exact words spoken by Oldfield.
If you read MO's Rogatory Letter testimony you will get a sense of the difficulty the Portuguese interpreter faced when listening to this man.]  
 
 

[AnneGuedes]

On the contrary Anne - somewhere in the files - I haven't got time to look now - it says in one statement that the alert to cuddlecat was later confirmed and in another that the alert to cuddlecat was not later confirmed.

What a difference just one word can make. 

Another example is in the statement of one of the bar staff who claims he saw people leaving the table to 'control' the children.   That is obviously wrong - and the word 'check' should have been used.  Control means something completely different.

I am not criticising the interpretators - but I do not believe that no mistakes were ever made - and even the smallest mistake can completely change the meaning of a sentence.

If interpreting from one language to another is as straightforward and simple as you seem to be sayng then this note from an interpretor would surely not exist regarding Matthew Oldfields statement.

QUOTE
905 to 917 Witness statement of Matthew David Oldfield 2007.05.10
918-Consent for mouth swab for Matthew David Oldfield
TRANSLATION BY ALBYM
 
04-Processo 04 Page 905 to 917
 
 
[M Oldfield's  Statement 10th May Again, there were several omissions from, and errors in, the original Portuguese. I corrected those that I found. Also, much of the Portuguese statement is written with a convoluted 'future + past' verb construct that attributes an 'uncertainty' to the words, whereas I have translated much of it in a non-literal manner to make it read more definitively. Hence, the reader must understand that neither the Portuguese nor my translation necessarily constitute the exact words spoken by Oldfield.
If you read MO's Rogatory Letter testimony you will get a sense of the difficulty the Portuguese interpreter faced when listening to this man.]

A profissional interpretor has oral skills in both languages (translating requires other qualities).
I was mentioning two specific and crucial statements that singularly differ from the collective statement called "time line" that followed. The "all closed" first narrative vs the "all shut" one which prevailed and developed into the so-called "whoosh" narrative, almost stable now after some slight variations along time.

[John]

It goes without saying that there are words which sometimes do not translate into English, I know I found this when I first lived in Spain.  Naively, at the beginning I thought that all words can be translated but that isn't always the case.  The classic example of this in the McCann case is the Portuguese word arguido.  There is no equivalent word in English for this entity since such a designation does not exist in the United Kingdom.

The question raised in this thread simply is, can a mistranslated word make such a difference?  My own experience is that it certainy can.

[Mr Gray]

I wonder if they had the files translated, actually. No source, no mention of an accredited firm or individual translators.
If they had noted strong misleading errors, wouldn't they have published (at least) corrections on their site ? For the sake of the truth ?

why should they bother...why should they recognise the vile abuse directed at them by people who don't understand half the facts

[Mr Gray]

it would be totally ridiculous to claim their were no mistakes in the translations

[AnneGuedes]

It goes without saying that there are words which sometimes do not translate into English, I know I found this when I first lived in Spain.  Naively, at the beginning I thought that all words can be translated but that isn't always the case.  The classic example of this in the McCann case is the Portuguese word arguido.  There is no equivalent word in English for this entity since such a designation does not exist in the United Kingdom.

The question raised in this thread simply is, can a mistranslated word make such a difference?  My own experience is that it certainy can.

No, John, you're mixing up the notion and the word to designate it. The different meanings and connotations of a word occupy a certain "semantic" field. Semantic fields vary from a language to another one, though most of the time they cross partly.
There's always a way to translate, having in mind the meaning of the original text but necessarily recreating it. Even in the difficult case of idiomatic expressions, it turns translation real fun !

[Silkywhiskers]

No, John, you're mixing up the notion and the word to designate it. The different meanings and connotations of a word occupy a certain "semantic" field. Semantic fields vary from a language to another one, though most of the time they cross partly.
There's always a way to translate, having in mind the meaning of the original text but necessarily recreating it. Even in the difficult case of idiomatic expressions, it turns translation real fun !

Exactly.  One of my friends is Filipina and they have a phrase, "apto sawa" which does not translate directly to English but essentially means "enjoy as much as you can".

I have no problem using that phrase now because I understand what it means.

Also, these transcripts have been gone over and over again by HOW MANY McCann lawyers just desperate to find inaccuracy?

Bilingual lawyers, at that?

Oh btw Anne you are mentioned in Blacksmith today, I feel quite honored to be posting here with you. 

[stephen25000]

Exactly.  One of my friends is Filipina and they have a phrase, "apto sawa" which does not translate directly to English but essentially means "enjoy as much as you can".

I have no problem using that phrase now because I understand what it means.

Also, these transcripts have been gone over and over again by HOW MANY McCann lawyers just desperate to find inaccuracy?

Bilingual lawyers, at that?

Oh btw Anne you are mentioned in Blacksmith today, I feel quite honored to be posting here with you. 

I'll second that.

Just read Blacksmith's latest, and his praise of Anne for her sterling work.

Again, well done Anne.

[Estuarine]

It was only Anne's stuff on McCannFiles that lured me in here. Anne you owe me many cases of Vinho Verde for luring me into this asylum :)