Do the fingerprints on the children's bedroom window prove anything?

[Mr Moderator]

In an interview with Gonçalo Amaral on 24 July 2008 he stated the following:

In order to advance into that direction, it would be necessary to give her credit: there was no other indicium of the abduction. And the issue of the bedroom window, where Maddie and her siblings slept, is vital. It leads to simulation. This means, whether or not it was open when Jane says that she saw the man carrying the child. The little girl’s mother, Kate, is the only person that mentions the open window.

Does that undo the abduction theory?

There lies the solution. To be closed or not, is a strong indicium for simulation. And why does one simulate abduction, rather than simply saying that the child has disappeared? She could have opened the door and left…

Do Kate's fingerprints reinforce the simulation theory?

They are the only fingerprints on the window. And in a position of opening the window.

Did Kate have suspicious attitudes?

She goes out for dinner and supposedly leaves three children asleep. She returns, one is missing, she goes out, leaving the window wide open with the twins asleep. And the night, according to what she says, was very cold…

What about Maddie's bed?

It showed no signs that anyone was in it. Nor does the chair or the bed under the window. And there are no imprints from strangers.

The reconstruction is missing.

It was not carried out 10 or 15 days after the facts, because the resort was full of tourists. We trusted that it could be carried out at a later date. It couldn't.

Did you request background information about the group?

At 8 a.m. on the 4th, the request was made to the English liaison officer, but information was never provided.

What did you want to know?

Who the people are, their antecedents. And the child, whether or not there are complaints against the parents or others. How she behaved in school, to find out if she was the target of abuse.


http://www.mccannfiles.com/id139.html

[pegasus]

Yes very interesting, thanks.
There is a basic mistake about the window:
"fingerprints were on it. And positioned in a manner that coincides with an opening movement."
Whilst having great respect for Mr Amaral, this is simply incorrect. The "positioning" of the fingerprints (or to be more accurate thumbprint), when one checks it out by with reference to the PJ finger/thumb print photos, does not incriminate the mother at all.

[Silkywhiskers]

 

Yes very interesting, thanks.
There is a basic mistake about the window:
"fingerprints were on it. And positioned in a manner that coincides with an opening movement."
Whilst having great respect for Mr Amaral, this is simply incorrect. The "positioning" of the fingerprints (or to be more accurate thumbprint), when one checks it out by with reference to the PJ finger/thumb print photos, does not incriminate the mother at all.

Yes it does!

It's another lie, she said she never touched it!

[pegasus]

Yes it does!

It's another lie, she said she never touched it!

She says she leaned against it to look out.
Please show me the fingerprint in the PJ files photos which is in a position to indicate she opened it.
?
(long wait)

[Benice]

She says she leaned against it to look out.
Please show me the fingerprint in the PJ files photos which is in a position to indicate she opened it.
?
(long wait)

IMO The most natural and easiest way of opening a sliding window is by simply using the handle.    Were any fingerprints found on that? 

[AnneGuedes]

She says she leaned against it to look out.
Please show me the fingerprint in the PJ files photos which is in a position to indicate she opened it.
?
(long wait)

Is this relevant ? Mrs McCann says in no statement that she went close to the window, anyhow not very practical with a bed and an arm chair under it.
The window tale is in "Madeleine", 4 years after and obviously influenced by forumers wondering why she didn't look through the open window first thing.

[pegasus]

IMO The most natural and easiest way of opening a sliding window is by simply using the handle.    Were any fingerprints found on that?

No identifiable prints were found on the handle.
The 5 prints of KM were all on the glass (source: volume IVa page 884a)
The fingerprint evidence is consistent with KM finding the window already open, and leaning on it to look out.

[AnneGuedes]

No identifiable prints were found on the handle.
The 5 prints of KM were all on the glass (source: volume IVa page 884a)
The fingerprint evidence is consistent with KM finding the window already open, and leaning on it to look out.

Have you a forensic police source for that ?

[Benice]

No identifiable prints were found on the handle.
The 5 prints of KM were all on the glass (source: volume IVa page 884a)
The fingerprint evidence is consistent with KM finding the window already open, and leaning on it to look out.

Yes I would agree with that pegasus. IMO  that is far more credible that opening a window by placing your fingers on the glass and sliding it across -  when all you have to do is use the handle.   I have similar windows - it wouldn't occur to me to NOT use the handle.

[pegasus]

In the "Verdade" documentary, they claim that one of KM's prints was on the lateral edge of the sliding part of the window.
They claim that this indicates she opened the window.

But IMO it does not take much common sense to realise that it is absolutely impossible to open a closed sliding window by placing a finger on the lateral edge.

The lateral edge is totally inaccesible unless the window is already open.

[AnneGuedes]

In the "Verdade" documentary, they claim that one of KM's prints was on the lateral edge of the sliding part of the window.
They claim that this indicates she opened the window.

But IMO it does not take much common sense to realise that it is absolutely impossible to open a closed sliding window by placing a finger on the lateral edge.

The lateral edge is totally inaccesible unless the window is already open.

No. This lateral edge is, depending on the material (larger when PVC than when aluminium), about at least 5cm.
Somebody who has never used that type of window, wouldn't think first in using the central handle (in this case difficult to reach because of the bed), when there's one. Of my slidings window and French windows, only those in PVC have a handle.

[pegasus]

The unlock button is on the handle.
Source: photos at Volume IXa page 2319

[AnneGuedes]

The unlock button is on the handle.
Source: photos at Volume IXa page 2319

How does that fact proves she found the window open ?

[pegasus]

How does that fact proves she found the window open ?

I was just pointing out, that if the witness did open the window, and if the window was in the locked state, the first step would be to press the unlock button which is on the handle, therefore (having hand already on the handle) it would be natural to use the handle to slide the window open.

[AnneGuedes]

I was just pointing out, that if the witness did open the window, and if the window was in the locked state, the first step would be to press the unlock button which is on the handle, therefore (having hand already on the handle) it would be natural to use the handle to slide the window open.

It's natural for someone who knows how to open this kind of window. But Mrs McCann said she never touched it.
Then seizing the handle to slide the window meant kneeling on the bed.