Who was the Irish teenager who saw Gerry and Jez talking?

[Carana]

It would seem it is you that is pushing propoganda Brietta.

Brietta is correct, Levy was the origin of that.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3550.msg134591#msg134591

[faithlilly]

Brietta is correct, Levy was the origin of that.
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3550.msg134591#msg134591

I didn't say he wasn't Carana.

[pathfinder73]

No. A Levy / Reis special.

Madeleine McCann: Irish Teenger Saw Gerry McCann
by Anorak | 26th, October 2007

PAULO Reis writes on Madeleine McCann:

    A teenager, who was with her family at Ocean Club, saw Gerry McCann and Jeremy Wilkins talking, the night Madeleine disappeared – but she didn’t saw Jane Tanner or a man carrying a child. The girl wasn’t in the list of guests, as their presence at Ocean Club wasn’t registered with the management. Father and daughter have been in Portugal, recently, to help Policia Judiciaria in the reconstruction of what happened the night of May 3 and to give a formal statement to Police, according to a source close to the case.

    Speaking to SOS Madeleine, the Irish teenager confirmed she saw Gerry McCann and Jeremy Wilkins talking, for a few minutes, near the McCann apartment: “There was only the father of the little girl talking to another man.”

    The teenager went out for a cigarette, around the same time Jane Tanner said she saw a man carrying a child. She only mentioned what she saw to her family latter, because she had also to confess the reason why she was there. Since the beginning, Police had some doubts about Jane Tanner [sic] statement, as Jeremy Wilkins, a tennis partner of Madeleine’s father, told them he only saw Gerry McCann near the apartment.

http://www.anorak.co.uk/177197/news/twitterings/madeleine-mccann-irish-teenger-saw-gerry-mcann.html/

My wife mentioned on the following day that she vaguely remembered someone calling "Madeleine, Madeleine", this was after we had crossed the road from the MW reception and before entering our apartment. She does not remember where the sound came from or whether it was in an urgent tone, not paying any more attention to it and only remembered the following day when we heard about Madeleine's disappearance". OK, before going on the next part, do you remember at what time you left'

SC: Humm... vaguely, I think it was what was put in the statement, the same, the leaving the restaurant, the way back to the apartment, looking to my left to check that the way was clear and I didn't see anything....My wife vaguely remembers hearing "Madeleine, Madeleine" and that was all until the following morning when I saw the television.

Between approximately a quarter past nine and half past nine we left the Tapas bar to go home.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN-CARPENTER.htm

If that in fact happened then 5 people were outdoors in that time period who knew Madeleine's name (9:15-9:30). Jez Wilkins, Gerry McCann, Jane Tanner, Matt Oldfield and Russell O'Brien.

[faithlilly]

My wife mentioned on the following day that she vaguely remembered someone calling "Madeleine, Madeleine", this was after we had crossed the road from the MW reception and before entering our apartment. She does not remember where the sound came from or whether it was in an urgent tone, not paying any more attention to it and only remembered the following day when we heard about Madeleine's disappearance". OK, before going on the next part, do you remember at what time you left'

SC: Humm... vaguely, I think it was what was put in the statement, the same, the leaving the restaurant, the way back to the apartment, looking to my left to check that the way was clear and I didn't see anything....My wife vaguely remembers hearing "Madeleine, Madeleine" and that was all until the following morning when I saw the television.

Between approximately a quarter past nine and half past nine we left the Tapas bar to go home.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/STEPHEN-CARPENTER.htm

If that in fact happened then 5 people were outdoors in that time period who knew Madeleine's name (9:15-9:30). Jez Wilkins, Gerry McCann, Jane Tanner, Matt Oldfield and Russell O'Brien.

Could this have been Gerry looking for Madeleine after realising she wasn't in her bed when he checked on the children ?

[pathfinder73]

Could this have been Gerry looking for Madeleine after realising she wasn't in her bed when he checked on the children ?

That is Amaral's theory of Gerry finding her behind the sofa so it could connect to Carpenter hearing her name being called out around that time. You have to be sure on the time that they left to connect it to somebody. Are they guessing on that time?  Could they have left the tapas bar later than 9:30. It needs to be properly investigated to discover the time they left.

[jassi]

That is Amaral's theory of Gerry finding her behind the sofa so it could connect to Carpenter hearing her name being called out around that time. You have to be sure on the time that they left to connect it to somebody. Are they guessing on that time?  Could they have left the tapas bar later than 9:30. It needs to be properly investigated to discover the time they left.

I think it is now  far too late to get a definitive answer

[Carana]

That is Amaral's theory of Gerry finding her behind the sofa so it could connect to Carpenter hearing her name being called out around that time. You have to be sure on the time that they left to connect it to somebody. Are they guessing on that time?  Could they have left the tapas bar later than 9:30. It needs to be properly investigated to discover the time they left.

Mrs Carpenter's statement isn't in the files. It's therefore possible that hubby's recollection of what she'd mentioned concerning when and where she'd vaguely remembered hearing someone calling a name that could have been "Madeleine" could have been from later. The Met may well have reinterviewed them since.

[pathfinder73]

I think it is now  far too late to get a definitive answer

Carpenters booked their table early at 7pm. The tapas nine weren't all seated at 8:30. Straight away that changes Stephen Carpenter's timeline.

At approximately half past eight, Gerry and Kate and their group of approximately ten people were already seated at their table, which was so close to ours that it was possible to converse with them, we spoke of tennis amongst other things, I vaguely remember that Gerry and Kate and other people from the group would leave the table in intervals (inaudible), I think it was to check on the children , but I do not remember with what frequency or how many times the people left the table to check on the children. We did not talk about the system for checking the children or the fact that they had left them alone in the apartment, it was only later upon hearing the news that I realised that they had left the children alone in the apartment and that they were regularly checking to see if they were all right. Between approximately a quarter past nine and half past nine we left the Tapas bar to go home. (SC)

[jassi]

He's clearly wrong there as Kate didn't leave the table until 10 ish, by which time he was long gone.

[Brietta]

Carpenters booked their table early at 7pm. The tapas nine weren't all seated at 8:30. Straight away that changes Stephen Carpenter's timeline.

At approximately half past eight, Gerry and Kate and their group of approximately ten people were already seated at their table, which was so close to ours that it was possible to converse with them, we spoke of tennis amongst other things, I vaguely remember that Gerry and Kate and other people from the group would leave the table in intervals (inaudible), I think it was to check on the children , but I do not remember with what frequency or how many times the people left the table to check on the children. We did not talk about the system for checking the children or the fact that they had left them alone in the apartment, it was only later upon hearing the news that I realised that they had left the children alone in the apartment and that they were regularly checking to see if they were all right. Between approximately a quarter past nine and half past nine we left the Tapas bar to go home. (SC)

Contrary to allegations which continue to be asserted ... Mr Carpenter verifies that the children were regularly checked.

It would be interesting to know if in his initial statement he was asked about parked vehicles in the street or car park or any other pedestrians going about (he wouldn't have noticed anyone suspicious lurking in the balcony of apartment 6 ... as that was where the Irish teen was having her fly smoke, allegedly ...)

[slartibartfast]

Contrary to allegations which continue to be asserted ... Mr Carpenter verifies that the children were regularly checked.

I disagree...

i don't remember frequency or times

It was only afterwards that his mind filled in what was expected.

[ShiningInLuz]

"I went to search the area around the back of our apartment where there is a little garden with a big palm tree in the middle. I was looking in the shrubbery and the little gardens to the apartments."
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GRAHAM-MCKENZIE.htm

A brief stroll today revealed the following.

Block 1 is lettered, not numbered.  It goes from A on the east end of the ground floor to either U or Z at the west end on the top floor.  (The last apartment does not display a label.  The one next to it is either T or Y, but my eyesight is not up to telling the difference from the road.)  Whatever, block 1 is out re McKenzie.

However, the cluster of apartments to the south of block six have the right numbers.  There is certainly a 52, right next to 24 hour reception.  Those immediately south of block 6 start around 26, and 29 and 31, the ones G-Unit has flagged, are at the east end.  Entry is via the road behind block 6.  The rear of these, particularly the end ones, overlook the garden with the palm tree.

Back to the 'Irish sighting'.

My guess about block 6 numbering was wrong.  The 3 flats on west side, the little leg of the L, the ones opposite 5A are numbered 5, 9 and 12.  (Quite how they manage this I don't know.)

Block 6 is at a slight angle to block 5.  From the public balconies around the eastern stairwell (the one further from 5A), you get a surprisingly good view of the front of 5A, enough to monitor people coming and going.  You cannot see the front of other ground floor apartments, nor the central stairwell access.  You can see most of the car park. You cannot see the side of 5A.  You cannot see the rear of 5A.  You cannot see the Gerry/Jes meeting point.  And you cannot see anything of the Tapas area.

In brief, this does not fit with the 'Irish sighting'.

The public balconies from the western stairwell, those opposite 5A, give a view that extends nearly to the Tapas entrance.  It is possible to see this by leaning out a bit.  There is an excellent view of the rear.  This includes the gate, the steps and the patio.  Technically, you can't see the patio doors.   You can see through all of the windows on that side (assuming shutters open and curtains open).  Although you can see the car park entrance and a fair slice of the car park (run a diagonal from the corner of block 5 at the 5A end to the opposite side of the car park and that is roughly correct),  you cannot see the front of block 5 at all.  Nothing, not the opening from car park to central stairwell or any of the pedestrian passage along the front of the ground floor apartments.

So, great for monitoring the McCanns at the rear, good for seeing Gerry and Jes, but you would have to know Oldfield and O'Brien to be able to work out what was going on at the front.

As a matter of interest, does anyone have a source for this 'Irish sighting' other than Anorak?  This should have run through several newspapers.

[faithlilly]

That is Amaral's theory of Gerry finding her behind the sofa so it could connect to Carpenter hearing her name being called out around that time. You have to be sure on the time that they left to connect it to somebody. Are they guessing on that time?  Could they have left the tapas bar later than 9:30. It needs to be properly investigated to discover the time they left.

I don't think she was found behind the sofa but in the small garden in front of the apartment.

[Alfred R Jones]

I don't think she was found behind the sofa but in the small garden in front of the apartment.

Perhaps you would like to expand upon your theory in the thread I started for you?

[faithlilly]

Perhaps you would like to expand upon your theory in the thread I started for you?

Mmmm no !