Who was the Irish teenager who saw Gerry and Jez talking?

[faithlilly]

You are welcome Shining,
I think the teenager was a myth and as you probably know this chap was a friend of Mr Amaral.
 What do you mean (in bold) ? I thought there was a CCTV there already.

Was Levy a friend of Amaral's Anna ?

[ShiningInLuz]

You are welcome Shining,
I think the teenager was a myth and as you probably know this chap was a friend of Mr Amaral.
 What do you mean (in bold) ? I thought there was a CCTV there already.

Sorry, Anna.  I meant I had posted the details of CCTV around Estrela on my blog (true).

However, it is basically non-news.

In brief Estrela has 9 entrances, each with 1 CCTV, apart from 1 which has 2.  Basically, 8 of these are looking inside, with 2 that are irrelevant to Smithman seeing a bit of the outside.

Forget the 'missing' CCTV.  It would have added nothing.

[G-Unit]

*sigh*
Perhaps he'd have been better explaining why the Smiths' statements were sat on from the end of May until October 2007 and then disregarded again. But, just like any bad workman, he blamed his tools.

The Smiths only came forward after Robert Murat was made arguido and Mr Smith's first statement refers to Murat;

States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph.
— Adds that in May and August of 2006, he saw ROBERT MURAT in Praia da Luz bars. On one of these occasions, the first, he was inebriated and spoke to everyone. He did not wear glasses at that time. He also states that the individual who carried the child was not ROBERT. He would have recognised him immediately.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

Later, he said he had seen Gerald McCann;

I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane. After seeing the BBC news at 10 PM, footage on the 9th September 2007 I contacted Leicestershire police with this information.

If the Smith sighting was 10pm as Mr Smith said and it was the abductor can we assume that he left G5A at 9.55pm? I think it was a five minute walk, but I stand to be corrected. If so, then the moving bedroom door and the lightness or otherwise of the children's bedroom is immaterial as surely he was not in the apartment until after Matthew Oldfield's check at around 9.30pm? If he opened the shutters and the window it's strange that a female driving past noticed light in the vicinity of the bedroom window but two people on foot and with an interest in the apartment didn't (Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien). As the female in the car drove 'the checking route' and saw no-one running and searching or milling around near the gate then it would seem that the alarm wasn't raised until after 10pm. In order to go to where the Smiths saw him he would have gone left from the McCann apartment towards Block 4, gone to the end of the road and then turned left, I think? He could have exited the apartment by either the front door, the window, or the patio door therefore. If he had been watching then he knew that Russell O'Brien had gone into the block and not emerged. He may also have seen Jane Tanner returning to 'relieve' Russell.
It would have been safer therefore IMO to exit using the patio doors and use the alleyway to get to block 4 so as not to bump into either of them coming back out. I think he would have had to emerge onto the street to do this, which was risky again, but he could have peeped out to check the coast was clear (after negotiating the child gate of course). On exiting and closing the gate behind him he was ready to go. The main risk then was bumping into anyone coming out of block 4 as he came out of the alleyway into the car park. Maybe someone with a good geographical knowledge could comment?

[misty]

The Smiths only came forward after Robert Murat was made arguido and Mr Smith's first statement refers to Murat;

States that it is not possible for him to recognise the individual in person or by photograph.
— Adds that in May and August of 2006, he saw ROBERT MURAT in Praia da Luz bars. On one of these occasions, the first, he was inebriated and spoke to everyone. He did not wear glasses at that time. He also states that the individual who carried the child was not ROBERT. He would have recognised him immediately.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_SMITH.htm

Later, he said he had seen Gerald McCann;

I would be 60-80% sure that it was Gerard McCann that I met that night carrying a child. I am basing that on his mannerism in the way he carried the child off the plane. After seeing the BBC news at 10 PM, footage on the 9th September 2007 I contacted Leicestershire police with this information.

If the Smith sighting was 10pm as Mr Smith said and it was the abductor can we assume that he left G5A at 9.55pm? I think it was a five minute walk, but I stand to be corrected. If so, then the moving bedroom door and the lightness or otherwise of the children's bedroom is immaterial as surely he was not in the apartment until after Matthew Oldfield's check at around 9.30pm? If he opened the shutters and the window it's strange that a female driving past noticed light in the vicinity of the bedroom window but two people on foot and with an interest in the apartment didn't (Jane Tanner and Russell O'Brien). As the female in the car drove 'the checking route' and saw no-one running and searching or milling around near the gate then it would seem that the alarm wasn't raised until after 10pm. In order to go to where the Smiths saw him he would have gone left from the McCann apartment towards Block 4, gone to the end of the road and then turned left, I think? He could have exited the apartment by either the front door, the window, or the patio door therefore. If he had been watching then he knew that Russell O'Brien had gone into the block and not emerged. He may also have seen Jane Tanner returning to 'relieve' Russell.
It would have been safer therefore IMO to exit using the patio doors and use the alleyway to get to block 4 so as not to bump into either of them coming back out. I think he would have had to emerge onto the street to do this, which was risky again, but he could have peeped out to check the coast was clear (after negotiating the child gate of course). On exiting and closing the gate behind him he was ready to go. The main risk then was bumping into anyone coming out of block 4 as he came out of the alleyway into the car park. Maybe someone with a good geographical knowledge could comment?

The route is secondary. The Smiths allegedly saw a man with a child who could have been Madeleine. Why wasn't an appeal put out immediately the PJ found out about this potential suspect? They had a better description of him than Tannerman. Or was it just enough that that the Smiths ruled out the dark-jacketed, beige-trousered man carrying a little girl as being RM?
Jane was in a hurry to relieve ROB so he could go & finish his meal. People in a hurry tend not to be so attentive of their surroundings.

[G-Unit]

The route is secondary. The Smiths allegedly saw a man with a child who could have been Madeleine. Why wasn't an appeal put out immediately the PJ found out about this potential suspect? They had a better description of him than Tannerman. Or was it just enough that that the Smiths ruled out the dark-jacketed, beige-trousered man carrying a little girl as being RM?
Jane was in a hurry to relieve ROB so he could go & finish his meal. People in a hurry tend not to be so attentive of their surroundings.

The Smith's testimony is questionable anyway IMO. In May we could assume it was intended to clear RM, and the later statement could be intended to implicate Gerald McCann. In neither case was an appeal put out. Jane may have been in a hurry but she was moving towards the block on foot, not passing in a moving car. If anyone was going to notice lights she was the more likely one. Hence I would discount the one in the car. The window of opportunity and the route are very important I would have thought.

[jassi]

The Smith's testimony is questionable anyway IMO. In May we could assume it was intended to clear RM, and the later statement could be intended to implicate Gerald McCann. In neither case was an appeal put out. Jane may have been in a hurry but she was moving towards the block on foot, not passing in a moving car. If anyone was going to notice lights she was the more likely one. Hence I would discount the one in the car. The window of opportunity and the route are very important I would have thought.

So why would SY be so interested in Smithman?  Have they not seen through this 'subterfuge' ?

[pathfinder73]

The route is secondary. The Smiths allegedly saw a man with a child who could have been Madeleine. Why wasn't an appeal put out immediately the PJ found out about this potential suspect? They had a better description of him than Tannerman. Or was it just enough that that the Smiths ruled out the dark-jacketed, beige-trousered man carrying a little girl as being RM?
Jane was in a hurry to relieve ROB so he could go & finish his meal. People in a hurry tend not to be so attentive of their surroundings.

They were after Robert Murat after Jane Tanner identified him as the man she saw and other friends said he was there on the night. You would start with the closest sighting to the crime scene i.e. Tannerman. Tannerman was heading towards Murat's house. The bedroom door allegedly moved just before he was seen. That door move connects to him as Maddy was still asleep in the same position according to her father. Things that make you go hmmm  &%+((£

[G-Unit]

So why would SY be so interested in Smithman?  Have they not seen through this 'subterfuge' ?

You tell me. Why would SY be interested in someone who said he thought he saw Gerald McCann? Why would SY eliminate someone who didn't look like Gerald McCann and who was seen when Gerald McCann had a clear alibi? Why would SY be interested in showing us efits which don't eliminate either Gerald McCann or Jeremy Wilkins?

[Brietta]

They were after Robert Murat after Jane Tanner identified him as the man she saw and other friends said he was there on the night. You would start with the closest sighting to the crime scene i.e. Tannerman. Tannerman was heading towards Murat's house. The bedroom door allegedly moved just before he was seen. That door move connects to him as Maddy was still asleep in the same position according to her father. Things that make you go hmmm  &%+((£

You have been treading these boards long enough and are certainly familiar enough with the contents of the files to KNOW that Jane Tanner DID NOT identify Robert Murat as the man she had seen.
The fact you see fit to post that she did certainly makes me go Hmmmm!!

[Brietta]

You tell me. Why would SY be interested in someone who said he thought he saw Gerald McCann? Why would SY eliminate someone who didn't look like Gerald McCann and who was seen when Gerald McCann had a clear alibi? Why would SY be interested in showing us efits which don't eliminate either Gerald McCann or Jeremy Wilkins?

So is it your opinion the efits look like Jez Wilkins and Gerry McCann?

[G-Unit]

So is it your opinion the efits look like Jez Wilkins and Gerry McCann?

I said they don't eliminate those two people, unlike the Tanner sighting.

[misty]

You tell me. Why would SY be interested in someone who said he thought he saw Gerald McCann? Why would SY eliminate someone who didn't look like Gerald McCann and who was seen when Gerald McCann had a clear alibi? Why would SY be interested in showing us efits which don't eliminate either Gerald McCann or Jeremy Wilkins?

Perhaps SY want to find a person who saw a family of 9 walking those streets of PDL at the same time the Smiths said they were. That sighting works both ways.

[pathfinder73]

You have been treading these boards long enough and are certainly familiar enough with the contents of the files to KNOW that Jane Tanner DID NOT identify Robert Murat as the man she had seen.
The fact you see fit to post that she did certainly makes me go Hmmmm!!

She admits it in her rog. At the time she thought it was him.

I realise they were probably calling Robert MURAT to try and get him to walk across, across the top of the road so that, you know, I could see.

I’m not trying to push anything onto Robert MURAT’s door, cos as I say I don’t think it was him that I saw”.
4078    “No”.
 Reply    “But I just thought it was”.

[jassi]

She admits it in her rog. At the time she thought it was him.

I realise they were probably calling Robert MURAT to try and get him to walk across, across the top of the road so that, you know, I could see.

I’m not trying to push anything onto Robert MURAT’s door, cos as I say I don’t think it was him that I saw”.
4078    “No”.
 Reply    “But I just thought it was”.

Hah, the perfect witness   

[G-Unit]

Perhaps SY want to find a person who saw a family of 9 walking those streets of PDL at the same time the Smiths said they were. That sighting works both ways.

Then they've eliminated both of the men wandering around with sleeping children? Interesting. It was probably always a long shot that anyone would take the risk of doing that anyway IMO.