Author Topic: Why was PC Grime and the specialist dogs deployed to Praia da Luz?  (Read 21204 times)

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Offline Mr Moderator

Why was PC Grime and the specialist dogs deployed to Praia da Luz?

When the Portuguese police (GNR) first arrived on the scene in Praia da Luz they immediately arranged for the deployment of their air scenting or Search and Rescue (SAR) dogs in an attempt to find Madeleine.  These SAR dogs must not however be confused with the specialist dogs later brought to the scene by Leicestershire Constabulary (LC).  LC at the time was headed by Chief Constable Matt Baggott, now Chief Constable of the Police Service of Northern Ireland (PSNI).

The basics first.

The two specialist dogs taken by PC Martin Grime of LC to Praia da Luz were male dog Eddie, referred to as an EVRD, an Enhanced Victim Recovery Dog and bitch Keela, referred to as a CSI, a Crime Scene Investigation dog.  In his profile provided to the Portuguese authorities prior to the dogs deployment, Grime states that Eddie will search for and locate human remains and body fluids including blood to very small samples in any environment or terrain. The dog will alert to the presence of 'dead body' scent whether it is at source or some distance away from a deposition site.  He also states that Keela will search for and locate human blood to such small proportions that it is unlikely to be recovered by the forensic science procedures in place at this time due to its size or placement. She will locate contaminated weapons, screen motor vehicles and items of clothing and examine crime scenes for minute human blood deposits. She will accurately locate human blood on items that have been subjected to 'clean up operations' or having been subjected to several washing machine cycles.

Given the deployment of these two specialist dogs in such circumstances it can only be assumed that they were looking for human remains or at the very least, the scent from a cadaver or human body.

The question is why?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2014, 01:00:18 AM by John »

Offline Mr Moderator

Re: Why was PC Grime and the specialist dogs deployed to Praia da Luz?
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2014, 04:40:10 PM »
The Blame Game.

Who decided that the dogs should be deployed?  Who decided that the investigation should migrate from one of searching for a missing child and her abductor(s) to one of searching for signs that the child died whether by accident or by foul deed?

If one considers for a moment that Madeleine died in apartment 5a of the Ocean Club Garden complex one can only do so in the context that her parents had some involvement which they have hitherto not admitted.

Such a change of emphasis could not have taken place unless Leicestershire Constabulary were in agreement with their counterparts in Portugal, the Policia Judicial (PJ).  Much has been written claiming that the British police or LC did not consider the McCanns to be suspects but this flies in the face of the facts.  For these specialist dogs to be sent to PdL required a common understanding between the two police forces.

Was LC in every way just as much to blame as the PJ in suspecting the McCanns of involvement in their daughters disappearance and how far up the line of command did this go?

Why should former PJ coordinator Dr Amaral and the PJ take all the blame when the British police and LC in particular were also involved?
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 04:42:19 PM by Mr Moderator »

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Why was PC Grime and the specialist dogs deployed to Praia da Luz?
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2014, 04:49:20 PM »
The Blame Game.

Who decided that the dogs should be deployed?  Who decided that the investigation should migrate from one of searching for a missing child and her abductor(s) to one of searching for signs that the child died whether by accident or by foul deed?

If one considers for a moment that Madeleine died in apartment 5a of the Ocean Club Garden complex one can only do so in the context that her parents had some involvement which they have hitherto not admitted.

Such a change of emphasis could not have taken place unless Leicestershire Constabulary were in agreement with their counterparts in Portugal, the Policia Judicial (PJ).  Much has been written claiming that the British police or LC did not consider the McCanns to be suspects but this flies in the face of the facts.  For these specialist dogs to be sent to PdL required a common understanding between the two police forces.

Was LC in every way just as much to blame as the PJ in suspecting the McCanns of involvement in their daughters disappearance and how far up the line of command did this go?

Why should former PJ coordinator Dr Amaral and the PJ take all the blame when the British police and LC in particular were also involved?

How many times does it have to be said that it is normal police practice to make the parents of any child who has disappeared suspects...nothing unusual...however...when no evidence is found the parents should no longer be treated as suspects...SY seem to understand this

Offline Angelo222

Re: Why was PC Grime and the specialist dogs deployed to Praia da Luz?
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2014, 04:54:27 PM »
How many times does it have to be said that it is normal police practice to make the parents of any child who has disappeared suspects...nothing unusual...however...when no evidence is found the parents should no longer be treated as suspects...SY seem to understand this

But isn't that the whole point, evidence was found in the car and the apartment that all might not be as it appears?

To answer the question posed by the OP however, I would concur that Grime was sent because Leicestershire Constabulary whose officers were on the ground in PdL were in total agreement with the PJ.  They were involved at the highest level in the decision making and attended the meetings where the disappearance and the McCanns were discussed.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 05:00:53 PM by Angelo222 »
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Carana

Re: Why was PC Grime and the specialist dogs deployed to Praia da Luz?
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2014, 05:26:16 PM »
Why didn't they go over in mid-May 2007?

Offline pegasus

Re: Why was PC Grime and the specialist dogs deployed to Praia da Luz?
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2014, 05:51:17 PM »
The recommendation to bring in the UK dogs was made on 23 July 2007 by a UK expert working for the NPIA
(National Policing Improvement Agency)
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id293.html

Offline Carana

Re: Why was PC Grime and the specialist dogs deployed to Praia da Luz?
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2014, 05:55:09 PM »
The recommendation to bring in the UK dogs was made on 23 July 2007 by a UK expert working for the NPIA
(National Policing Improvement Agency)
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id293.html

Wouldn't it have been more useful to bring them in in mid-May, once the GNR S&R had given up?

Offline pegasus

Re: Why was PC Grime and the specialist dogs deployed to Praia da Luz?
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2014, 06:02:16 PM »
Wouldn't it have been more useful to bring them in in mid-May, once the GNR S&R had given up?
It was Guilihermino Encarnacao who directly requested the NPIA to do that reconnaisance and make recommendations.
Presumably GE requested it in July rather than mid-May because the UK did not offer NPIA expertise until July?

Offline Carana

Re: Why was PC Grime and the specialist dogs deployed to Praia da Luz?
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2014, 06:09:19 PM »
It was Guilihermino Encarnacao who directly requested the NPIA to do that reconnaisance and make recommendations.
Presumably GE requested it in July rather than mid-May because the UK did not offer NPIA expertise until July?

Why wouldn't they have done?

Offline pegasus

Re: Why was PC Grime and the specialist dogs deployed to Praia da Luz?
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2014, 06:29:39 PM »
Why wouldn't they have done?
I don't know when the UK police in PDL first offered to the PJ the services of the NPIA.

Offline jassi

Re: Why was PC Grime and the specialist dogs deployed to Praia da Luz?
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2014, 06:39:59 PM »
I don't know when the UK police in PDL first offered to the PJ the services of the NPIA.

Does it matter? Clearly the consensus on here is that their findings were rubbish   @)(++(*
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Carana

Re: Why was PC Grime and the specialist dogs deployed to Praia da Luz?
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2014, 06:46:44 PM »
I don't know when the UK police in PDL first offered to the PJ the services of the NPIA.

I haven't found anything in the files either way. However, it would seem normal to get VRDs in once the S&Rs have given up. What was the issue at the time? Financial? Mistrust? The PJ could have asked other countries with VRDs back in May. Why wait until late July/August?

Offline pegasus

Re: Why was PC Grime and the specialist dogs deployed to Praia da Luz?
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2014, 06:47:21 PM »
Does it matter? Clearly the consensus on here is that their findings were rubbish   @)(++(*
I haven't seen anyone here claiming the National Police Improvement Agency's recommendations were rubbish.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2014, 06:50:10 PM by pegasus »

Offline jassi

Re: Why was PC Grime and the specialist dogs deployed to Praia da Luz?
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2014, 06:50:58 PM »
I haven't seen anyone here claiming the National Police Improvement Agency's recommendations were rubbish.

The dogs, sweetie, the dogs.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline pegasus

Re: Why was PC Grime and the specialist dogs deployed to Praia da Luz?
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2014, 06:59:45 PM »
The dogs, sweetie, the dogs.
It was the NPIA (from the UK) who recommended the UK dogs should be flown in and it was the NPIA who drew up the initial list of locations for those UK dogs to examine.