Terms explained - Cadaver - Cadaver scent - Cadaverine - Contaminant etc...

[Angelo222]

I thought best to post this observation separately so that members can respond.

Cadaver contaminants and cadaver scent must not be confused.  The former is matter and can last for years while the latter is a scent and dispenses within hours.

If KM for example brought contaminated clothing with her from the UK (unlikely imo) then it was contaminant and not scent as some posters have wrongly stated.

I was going to suggest that the terms cadaver, cadaver contaminant, cadaverine and cadaver scent are explained.  Anyone offer?

[ferryman]

I was going to suggest that the terms cadaver, cadaver contaminant, cadaverine and cadaver scent are explained.  Anyone offer?

The 'cadaver scent' is actually an array of scents that vary through time, reflecting the various stages of decomposition of a cadaver (and the scents it emits).

Cadaverine is a component of the cadaver scent, also present in the substances of living people, specifically semen or urine.

Cadaver contaminant is where cadaver from a body comes into contact with another surface or object and cross-transfers the scent to that surface or body.

[John]

This subject is worthy of its own thread given its significance to many other topics.   

[Carana]

This subject is worthy of its own thread given its significance to many other topics.

As Eddie would react to human remains and body fluids including (dried) blood from a living person...

What's the definition of cadaver scent? I had a minor accident a few weeks ago involving a toe and there was blood everywhere. I mopped most of it up, but only found a few remaining traces a day later. I'm not dead as far as I'm aware, but Eddie and Keela would have reacted.

[ferryman]

As Eddie would react to human remains and body fluids including (dried) blood from a living person...

What's the definition of cadaver scent? I had a minor accident a few weeks ago involving a toe and there was blood everywhere. I mopped most of it up, but only found a few remaining traces a day later. I'm not dead as far as I'm aware, but Eddie and Keela would have reacted.

If I understand serendipity correctly, Eddie would have reacted to blood only where cadaver scent was also present.

I may have misunderstood.

But if I have understood correctly, I am far from convinced.

The dog is trained to react to blood by being introduced to blood, as a discrete scent, and being rewarded for reacting to it.

That would mean the dog would react to blood, as a scent in its own right.

[jassi]

If I understand serendipity correctly, Eddie would have reacted to blood only where cadaver scent was also present.

I may have misunderstood.

But if I have understood correctly, I am far from convinced.

The dog is trained to react to blood by being introduced to blood, as a discrete scent, and being rewarded for reacting to it.

That would mean the dog would react to blood, as a scent in its own right.

You know that for a fact, or are you just guessing ?

[Carana]

The 'cadaver scent' is actually an array of scents that vary through time, reflecting the various stages of decomposition of a cadaver (and the scents it emits).

Cadaverine is a component of the cadaver scent, also present in the substances of living people, specifically semen or urine.

Cadaver contaminant is where cadaver from a body comes into contact with another surface or object and cross-transfers the scent to that surface or body.

It would have been so much clearer, IMO, if Grime had referred to human decomposition scent as opposed to cadaver scent.

[Cariad]

If I understand serendipity correctly, Eddie would have reacted to blood only where cadaver scent was also present.

I may have misunderstood.

But if I have understood correctly, I am far from convinced.

The dog is trained to react to blood by being introduced to blood, as a discrete scent, and being rewarded for reacting to it.

That would mean the dog would react to blood, as a scent in its own right.

I believe that Serendipity said that Eddie and Keela both react to blood, but Eddie also reacts to cadaver, hence the need to use both dogs in tandem.

If I recall correctly, Serendipity did say that Eddie would only react to semen,urine etc if it also contained blood. That could be where the confusion arose?

[slartibartfast]

As Eddie would react to human remains and body fluids including (dried) blood from a living person...

What's the definition of cadaver scent? I had a minor accident a few weeks ago involving a toe and there was blood everywhere. I mopped most of it up, but only found a few remaining traces a day later. I'm not dead as far as I'm aware, but Eddie and Keela would have reacted.

Assuming no one disappeared in your house and you are here to say what happened, I don't think anyone would worry about alerting dogs.

[Mr Gray]

If I understand serendipity correctly, Eddie would have reacted to blood only where cadaver scent was also present.

I may have misunderstood.

But if I have understood correctly, I am far from convinced.

The dog is trained to react to blood by being introduced to blood, as a discrete scent, and being rewarded for reacting to it.

That would mean the dog would react to blood, as a scent in its own right.

That's not what Grime says...grime says eddie reacts to dried blood from a living person..if serendipity said eddie only reacts to blood when cadaver scent is present then my suspicion she is making it up as she goes along is confirmed

[ferryman]

I believe that Serendipity said that Eddie and Keela both react to blood, but Eddie also reacts to cadaver, hence the need to use both dogs in tandem.

If I recall correctly, Serendipity did say that Eddie would only react to semen,urine etc if it also contained blood. That could be where the confusion arose?

There is no confusion.

Eddie and Keela react to blood.

Eddie will react to blood (as a discrete scent) or to cadaver scent (as a discrete scent)

Where blood and cadaver scent combine, Eddie will again react.

Keela will not react to cadaver scent.

The weak link in the Eddie-and-Keela combination was always the fact that both dogs react to blood.

I'm fairly certain that in the Keela-and-Morse combination, Morse does not react to blood ...

And Dave ...

I'm with you on that.

[Cariad]

There is no confusion.

Eddie and Keela react to blood.

Eddie will react to blood (as a discrete scent) or to cadaver scent (as a discrete scent)

Where blood and cadaver scent combine, Eddie will again react.

Keela will not react to cadaver scent.

The weak link in the Eddie-and-Keela combination was always the fact that both dogs react to blood.

I'm fairly certain that in the Keela-and-Morse combination, Morse does not react to blood ...

And Dave ...

I'm with you on that.

So if you are not confused and do understand how the dogs work, what was the point of your previous post?

[ferryman]

So if you are not confused and do understand how the dogs work, what was the point of your previous post?

The true position is clear.

Serendipity's position is not (at least to me)

[Cariad]

The true position is clear.

Serendipity's position is not (at least to me)

Could you link to where Serendipity claimed that Eddie only reacted to blood when cadaver was also present please?

That is not how I remember the post. As I stated above, I recall that s/he said that both dogs would only react to semen and urine if blood was also present, which is why I was wondering if that was where your apparent confusion arose from.

[Mr Gray]

Could you link to where Serendipity claimed that Eddie only reacted to blood when cadaver was also present please?

That is not how I remember the post. As I stated above, I recall that s/he said that both dogs would only react to semen and urine if blood was also present, which is why I was wondering if that was where your apparent confusion arose from.

could you post a link to support your claim that the dogs have never been wrong