What reasons are there to doubt the McCanns' version of events ?

[Carana]

No I don't find it unreasonable, but I do find that in itself odd. Who could operate on the basis of reason in a time like that?

I do find going to shrines and the Vatican extremely bizarre. They left their other children in a place they believed that an abductor was on the loose and flew off for a couple of days? Nah. No way. That's almost as bad as leaving the children out of eye sight and ear shot while dining every evening.

Close family members and friends flew in to try to help... part of that was helping the twins to maintain a normal schedule (in terms of what they were used to on holiday). They were too young to understand what had really happened, but were probably old enough to be distressed by their parents' distress if they'd been around on a 24/7 basis.

[Carana]

Fabricated timelines
Fabricated statements
Ignoring the Smith sighting
Fabricated rogs
Dismissing the dog alerts
Attempting to rubbish the dogs
Clarence Mitchell
Refusing to do a reconstruction (yes they did)
Deleting phone records
Refusing to answer questions
Running away
This forum
Body language
Crimewatch
Scotland yard
Attempting to silence Amaral
Pretend P.I.
Fabricated sightings
Mrs Fenn
Dianne Webster

Could you develop each of those points in an objective way, with links to relatively reliable sources?

[slartibartfast]

Could you develop each of those points in an objective way, with links to relatively reliable sources?

This thread is reasons to doubt, not hard evidence.

[Mr Gray]

No I don't find it unreasonable, but I do find that in itself odd. Who could operate on the basis of reason in a time like that?

I do find going to shrines and the Vatican extremely bizarre. They left their other children in a place they believed that an abductor was on the loose and flew off for a couple of days? Nah. No way. That's almost as bad as leaving the children out of eye sight and ear shot while dining every evening.

why do you find going to shrines and the Vatican bizarre

[Alfred R Jones]

This thread is reasons to doubt, not hard evidence.

Stating as fact (for example) that the McCanns refused to do a reconstruction should be substantiated, surely?  Or is it OK to put up a list containing half-truths, myths and falsehoods when explaining why one has doubts for something?

[jassi]

why do you find going to shrines and the Vatican bizarre

I've always thought everything to do with the Catholic church rather peculiar.

[Mr Gray]

I've always thought everything to do with the Catholic church rather peculiar.

That doesn't mean it is peculiar...do you apply the same judgement to all religions

[Carana]

Sorry, I thought I was replying on a different thread. Some comments would be better placed on here
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3898.15

[Brietta]

Kate McCann, Madeleine.

"Friday 4 May. Our first day without Madeleine. As soon as it was light Gerry and I resumed our search. We went up and down roads we’d never seen before, having barely left the Ocean Club complex all week. We jumped over walls and raked through undergrowth. We looked in ditches and holes. All was quiet apart from the sound of barking dogs, which added to the eeriness of the atmosphere. I remember opening a big dumpster-type bin and saying to myself, please God, don’t let her be in here. The most striking and horrific thing about all this was that we were completely alone. Nobody else, it seemed, was out looking for Madeleine. Just us, her parents."

(End Quote)

Less than 12 hours after Madeleine was apparently seen being carried away by Bundleman, Kate believed her daughter could be found inside a big dumpster type bin,

Infact she considers it so likely that she pleaded with God for her not to be in there.

She doesn't mention searching any more bins. Once she found that one empty, she didn't need to look in any more.

It is an unfortunate fact of life that people end up in waste disposal bins for a variety of reasons. 
Sometimes as a means of disposal, often as shelter or as a joke.

Health and Safety Executive
People in commercial waste containers

This guidance is about preventing serious injury to people, including children, who may enter, play in or take shelter in commercial waste bins or communal domestic bins - typically four-wheeled bins of 660 litres plus capacity. There have been many cases where people in bins have been injured and, in several cases, killed when they have been tipped into waste collection and compaction vehicles; sometimes they are only discovered at the waste transfer station.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/waste25.pdf

I do not find it at all strange that Kate McCann looked inside one, what I do find strange is that the refuse collection was allowed to take place on schedule instead of being individually emptied on site and searched.   

Is it normal practice to criticise the parents of children who have gone missing for failure to be out there emptying rubbish receptacles to search for their child? 

I can’t think of another single case where such criticism has been levelled.

[Wonderfulspam]

It is an unfortunate fact of life that people end up in waste disposal bins for a variety of reasons. 
Sometimes as a means of disposal, often as shelter or as a joke.

Health and Safety Executive
People in commercial waste containers

This guidance is about preventing serious injury to people, including children, who may enter, play in or take shelter in commercial waste bins or communal domestic bins - typically four-wheeled bins of 660 litres plus capacity. There have been many cases where people in bins have been injured and, in several cases, killed when they have been tipped into waste collection and compaction vehicles; sometimes they are only discovered at the waste transfer station.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/waste25.pdf

I do not find it at all strange that Kate McCann looked inside one, what I do find strange is that the refuse collection was allowed to take place on schedule instead of being individually emptied on site and searched.   

Is it normal practice to criticise the parents of children who have gone missing for failure to be out there emptying rubbish receptacles to search for their child? 

I can’t think of another single case where such criticism has been levelled.

I do not find it at all strange that Kate McCann looked inside one,

Really doesn't surprise me in the slightest.


often as shelter or as a joke

You reckon Kate was thinking 'Maybe Maddie has taken shelter in that bin or just popped in there for a laugh'

No, she was looking for a dead kid..

[slartibartfast]

Stating as fact (for example) that the McCanns refused to do a reconstruction should be substantiated, surely?  Or is it OK to put up a list containing half-truths, myths and falsehoods when explaining why one has doubts for something?

It is the combined weight of the list items that causes the doubt, even if some of the items only have a small probability of being dodgy they add to the overall level of doubt. Remember, it only takes hard evidence in support of one of the items to change the whole complexion of the case.

[Carana]

This thread is reasons to doubt, not hard evidence.

Wouldn't it be helpful to provide reasoned arguments with sources to substantiate those doubts?

[Alfred R Jones]

It is the combined weight of the list items that causes the doubt, even if some of the items only have a small probability of being dodgy they add to the overall level of doubt. Remember, it only takes hard evidence in support of one of the items to change the whole complexion of the case.

Why do you think the combined might of various police forces have been unable to substantiate any of these niggling doubts of yours in the last seven years?  BTW, I notice that one of the reasons for doubting is Scotland Yard themselves!!

[Carana]

It is an unfortunate fact of life that people end up in waste disposal bins for a variety of reasons. 
Sometimes as a means of disposal, often as shelter or as a joke.

Health and Safety Executive
People in commercial waste containers

This guidance is about preventing serious injury to people, including children, who may enter, play in or take shelter in commercial waste bins or communal domestic bins - typically four-wheeled bins of 660 litres plus capacity. There have been many cases where people in bins have been injured and, in several cases, killed when they have been tipped into waste collection and compaction vehicles; sometimes they are only discovered at the waste transfer station.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/waste25.pdf

I do not find it at all strange that Kate McCann looked inside one, what I do find strange is that the refuse collection was allowed to take place on schedule instead of being individually emptied on site and searched.   

Is it normal practice to criticise the parents of children who have gone missing for failure to be out there emptying rubbish receptacles to search for their child? 

I can’t think of another single case where such criticism has been levelled.

They have been criticised for not having searched at all, but they have also been criticised for searching in a bin. Both cannot true.

What I find more important is to find out when all of the bins in the area were checked by the police within what timeframe and with how many trained officers to check for potentially small pieces of forensic evidence.

[Brietta]

I do not find it at all strange that Kate McCann looked inside one,

Really doesn't surprise me in the slightest.


often as shelter or as a joke

You reckon Kate was thinking 'Maybe Maddie has taken shelter in that bin or just popped in there for a laugh'

No, she was looking for a dead kid..

I firmly believe that Dr McCann was searching for a living child, while dreading what she might find.

Madeleine could have been put into the dumpster by her abductor, for a variety of reasons.   

Unfortunately, because a comprehensive search was not carried out that is something we will never know, and cannot be used as criticism against the Drs McCanns. 

Neither can the failure to secure properly gathered forensics from the crime scene, or failure to collect all the available CCTV evidence be laid at their door.