Why do some people fail to come forward to help?

[Carana]

IMO the lady was not expressing any fear of the portuguese or british police, but expressing an understandable fear by some residents of being seen to be associated with the case by other residents, and she illustrates this with the example of the effect this had on the business of a totally innocent man.

Why should anyone be afraid of being seen talking to the PT police about a missing child?

[John]

Why should anyone be afraid of being seen talking to the PT police about a missing child?

It is a sad fact that in small communities in Latin countries, someone seen chatting with the police is perceived to be an informer. The police are in many areas seen as being the agents of an oppressive government.  In Spain for example the national force, the Guardia Civil, are still seen by many as Franco's thugs and are to be avoided at all costs.  This does not usually apply to the town police who are viewed as their own.

In Portugal there are three levels of policing.

The PSP.  Polícia de Segurança Pública - Public Security Police. Civilian police force who work in larger urban areas.

The GNR.  Guarda Nacional Republicana - National Republican Guard.  A Gendarmerie who mainly work in rural areas too small to warrant the PSP, and provide a national highway patrol and fiscal guard.

The PJ.  Polícia Judiciária - Judicial Police. Overseen by the Public Ministry, they investigate criminal cases.

[icabodcrane]

There is a real sense of fear in that statement. What is it about contact with the PJ which causes that kind of fear I wonder?

The statement you are refering to does not relate to fear of contact with the police, but,   rather,  fear of being  seen  to have contact with the police   (   which is quite a different thing  )

The inference is that  'bad things'  happen to those who assist the police in this case

And there's an element of truth in that,  I think  ...   just look at the way certain witnesses are discredited   (  or downright  vilified )   on forums and social media for daring to  'cross'   the McCanns in any way 

The Gaspers  ...  Martin Grime  ...  Yvonne Martin  ...  Mrs Fenn ...  Lee Rainbow ...  Henri Exton  ...   (  these off the top of my head,  but there are others,  of course  ) 

[Carana]

The statement you are refering to does not relate to fear of contact with the police, but,   rather,  fear of being  seen  to have contact with the police   (   which is quite a different thing  )

The inference is that  'bad things'  happen to those who assist the police in this case

And there's an element of truth in that,  I think  ...   just look at the way certain witnesses are discredited   (  or downright  vilified )   on forums and social media for daring to  'cross'   the McCanns in any way 

The Gaspers  ...  Martin Grime  ...  Yvonne Martin  ...  Mrs Fenn ...  Lee Rainbow ...  Henri Exton  ...   (  these off the top of my head,  but there are others,  of course  )

15/09/07 was just after the McCanns had returned to the UK and all missiles were firing from the PT tabloids. The files hadn't been released by then, so I'm not sure how a simple resident's worry about being seen talking to the police could be related to any of the people whose statements later appeared in the files disseminated throughout the Internet ether.

[icabodcrane]

15/09/07 was just after the McCanns had returned to the UK and all missiles were firing from the PT tabloids. The files hadn't been released by then, so I'm not sure how a simple resident's worry about being seen talking to the police could be related to any of the people whose statements later appeared in the files disseminated throughout the Internet ether.

You do not accept  that witnesses who have presented evidence that raises questions regarding the McCanns  have been treated with derision  ?   

...  really   ? 

[Lace]

That's because all of the sightings, with one exception, have been a load of complete horse shit.

Unless of course you believe it is likely that Maddie has been doing a world tour since 2007.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/my-names-maddie-they-took-me-from-my-holiday-mccanns-fury-over-the-sightings-and-cctv-footage-police-kept-secret-6909318.html

The thing is you see Wonderfulspam,   if someone thinks they saw Madeleine,  rather than just go home and not bother to report it,   they find they have to report what they think they have seen as otherwise they cannot live with their conscience,  wondering if what they saw was indeed Madeleine.

It may seem funny to you to say quote -  Unless of course you believe it is likely that Maddie has been doing a world tour unquote,   but the fact is,  there are fantastic people who are keeping a look out and reporting if they think they have seen her.   Good for them I say.

[jassi]

The thing is you see Wonderfulspam,   if someone thinks they saw Madeleine,  rather than just go home and not bother to report it,   they find they have to report what they think they have seen as otherwise they cannot live with their conscience,  wondering if what they saw was indeed Madeleine.

It may seem funny to you to say quote -  Unless of course you believe it is likely that Maddie has been doing a world tour unquote,   but the fact is,  there are fantastic people who are keeping a look out and reporting if they think they have seen her.   Good for them I say.

Are you sure you don't mean ' fantasist people'?

[Lace]

Are you sure you don't mean ' fantasist people'?

No I don't.

[pegasus]

Re "Liecester" IMO peeps should accept that occaisionaly peeps make speling mistakes.
If we pick on innocent spelling errors then the whole section of the forum about this case is null and void because it has a non-existent country in its title and we will have to write off over seventy-eight-thousand posts and start all over again.

Back on topic: For people in UK the best bet IMO for giving info to police is Crimestoppers because they guarantee complete anomnity https://crimestoppers-uk.org/give-information/the-crimestoppers-guarantee/

You will not be asked to reveal your name or any personal details.
Your call will not be recorded.
Crimestoppers have no caller line display, no 1471 facility and have never traced a call.
Online reports are given the same levels of anonymity as phone calls.
We create a report from the information you give us and our specially trained call agents will check that this report contains no information that might identify you, e.g. if the call is about your neighbour, we won't mention this.
Our call agents do not make a note of gender, accents, apparent age or ethnicity of any caller and cannot pass that detail to law enforcement. Even if you give personal details, those will not be passed on.
The only way anybody will know you rang Crimestoppers is if you tell somebody.
Crimestoppers' promise of anonymity has never been broken

But that gives no protection to Portuguese speakers in PDL.
Is there a similar, independent and guaranteed anonymous (portuguese language) phoneline for residents of PDL?
If not won't people worry about coming forward in case their their anomnity is not protected and even eventually their name may appear in released case files?

[gilet]

Re "Liecester" IMO peeps should accept that occaisionaly peeps make speling mistakes.
If we pick on innocent spelling errors then the whole section of the forum about this case is null and void because it has a non-existent country in its title and we will have to write off over seventy-eight-thousand posts and start all over again.

Back on topic: For people in UK the best bet IMO for giving info to police is Crimestoppers because they guarantee complete anomnity https://crimestoppers-uk.org/give-information/the-crimestoppers-guarantee/

But that gives no protection to Portuguese speakers in PDL.
Is there a similar, independent and guaranteed anonymous (portuguese language) phoneline for residents of PDL?
If not won't people worry about coming forward in case their their anomnity is not protected and even eventually their name may appear in released case files?

I don't believe there is such a reputable organisation in Portugal. Perhaps Anne Guedes could confirm?

And I believe that if their information is used in a case in Portugal then at the conclusion or shelving of that case their details will become available to the press and via them the public.

[Benice]

To answer the question posed in the thread title - I believe that even if locals had seen something they would not come forward for fear of being dragged in and accused of the crime.

The fact that Mrs Murat - (who lived there and so was well aware of that situation) set up a table for people who were too frightened to approach the PJ to leave information  - is proof of that sad state of affairs IMO.

[John]

To answer the question posed in the thread title - I believe that even if locals had seen something they would not come forward for fear of being dragged in and accused of the crime.

The fact that Mrs Murat - (who lived there and so was well aware of that situation) set up a table for people who were too frightened to approach the PJ to leave information  - is proof of that sad state of affairs IMO.

I can empathise with that after seeing the wanton violence dished out by other Iberian cops.



Jenny Murat at her desk seeking help from locals too afraid to approach local police.

[pegasus]

To answer the question posed in the thread title - I believe that even if locals had seen something they would not come forward for fear of being dragged in and accused of the crime ...

If only  the UK organisation Crimestoppers could set up a Portuguese language phoneline in PDL.
Run independently by Crimestooppers (with no involvement by SY or PJ or private investigators).
I'm impressed by their promise of complete anomnity and they seem to reliably adhere to it.
 

 

[pegasus]

I can empathise with that after seeing the wanton violence dished out by other Iberian cops...

IMO there is no indication of any violence being used by investigators (iberian or northern-european ) on witnesses in this case.

[sadie]

IMO there is no indication of any violence being used by investigators (iberian or northern-european ) on witnesses in this case.

No physical torture that we know of, agreed.


But then Amaral, the head investigator / co-ordinator knew he was up on charges to do with torture.  He had to tread carefully.


Also the eyes of the world were on this case.