Are the PJ and SY singing from the same hymn sheet?

[buzz]

PJ say it's the same line of enquiry that led to them re-opening the case. BHH states, over 2 months ago that the met are working on a different line of enquiry to the PJ and also have suspects.

WTF is going on?  >@@(*&)

[Cornelius]

PJ say it's the same line of enquiry that led to them re-opening the case. BHH states, over 2 months ago that the met are working on a different line of enquiry to the PJ and also have suspects.

WTF is going on?  >@@(*&)

I had a long winded and acrimonious conversation with two posters yesterday on this very topic. They seemed to think they (the posters) had it taped. Oh well back to drawing board!

[Carana]

PJ say it's the same line of enquiry that led to them re-opening the case. BHH states, over 2 months ago that the met are working on a different line of enquiry to the PJ and also have suspects.

WTF is going on?  >@@(*&)

There isn't a joint investigation, so each may be trying to follow up on separately established priorities. From the outside that seems a shame, but at least the PJ seems to be moving ahead, albeit probably with few staff and limited resources.

[Mr Gray]

PJ say it's the same line of enquiry that led to them re-opening the case. BHH states, over 2 months ago that the met are working on a different line of enquiry to the PJ and also have suspects.

WTF is going on?  >@@(*&)

It's simple...you cannot believe everything that you read in the papers...even if it does suit your agenda

[Carana]

Possibly but that is not what BHH said.

BHH said the met were following a different line of enquiry to the PJ. The PJ now state it is not different. Not only is it not different but it is in fact the very same line of enquiry that led to them re-opening the investigation. If this is the case then why are SY not making statements to the effect that they are working to develop the PJ's theory?

Either somebody is not being truthful or BHH doesn't know enough about.......err....op...op...operation grange???

There isn't necessarily a contradiction. It's a fluid investigation. What might have been accurate, or believed to be happening, a few months ago may no longer be the case.

It seems to be quite difficult to get a case reopened in PT. Tractorman may indeed have been the strongest lead at one point, even if there were others that hadn't yet been reviewed to a point where the PJ felt that the OK would be given.

The teams could simply be plodding through in different ways. I still find it a shame that they can't join forces, but then we don't know what the issues actually are. It may be something as simple as a lack of legislation.

For the moment, I have found nothing to suggest that the PJ team isn't doing its best with the resources at hand. And although I'm as intrigued as the next person as to the progress being made, I'm actually quite impressed that they don't appear to be leaking half-truths to CdaPJ every time a plod scratches his, erm, ear.

[Cornelius]

There isn't necessarily a contradiction. It's a fluid investigation. What might have been accurate, or believed to be happening, a few months ago may no longer be the case.

It seems to be quite difficult to get a case reopened in PT. Tractorman may indeed have been the strongest lead at one point, even if there were others that hadn't yet been reviewed to a point where the PJ felt that the OK would be given.

The teams could simply be plodding through in different ways. I still find it a shame that they can't join forces, but then we don't know what the issues actually are. It may be something as simple as a lack of legislation.

For the moment, I have found nothing to suggest that the PJ team isn't doing its best with the resources at hand. And although I'm as intrigued as the next person as to the progress being made, I'm actually quite impressed that they don't appear to be leaking half-truths to CdaPJ every time a plod scratches his, erm, ear.

Red portion: Very true and a fact that escapes peoples attention.
Blue portion: There are EU protocols whereby a joint investigation team from more than one member state may be set up. They deal mainly with major organised crime and terrorism. Simply put this case is not high enough up the totem pole and/or it may not have been requested by either police force.

[Carana]

Red portion: Very true and a fact that escapes peoples attention.
Blue portion: There are EU protocols whereby a joint investigation team from more than one member state may be set up. They deal mainly with major organised crime and terrorism. Simply put this case is not high enough up the totem pole and/or it may not have been requested by either police force.

I'm aware of that. However, the French and British set up a JIT quite quickly following the Alps massacre without clear evidence of a major organised crime in that case.

A possible legal issue might be the strict deadlines in the PT penal process code governing how long an investigation can remain open. I haven't found a legal provision for an extension in the event of a JIT, so this might be an obstacle at this stage.


On the other hand, in theory, a European Investigation Order should be possible, as Vixte found, but bureaucracy may be delaying implementation (if one has been requested).
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=2784.msg133149#msg133149

[Carana]

What intrigues me is BHH's choice of words.....a different line of enquiry.

If we are now led to believe that both forces are following the burglar theory, then the only explanation to me is that "different line of enquiry" means different suspects. BHH stated that SY had suspects. Various sources have previously stated that the PJ's suspect is monteiro.

If all the information is there in the case files then why are the PJ classing Monteiro as "tanned"? The children would know the difference between tanned and black. Furthermore is SY have an alternative suspect then they cannot have any strong evidence against said suspect or presumably the PJ would have acted of their own accord, irrespective of any ILOR.

All sorts of potential reasons.

Some lazy hack could have jumped to a conclusion based on someone described as "dark-skinned" without verifying whether that meant black (or otherwise naturally dark-skinned) or tanned, and what the thrust of the article was about.

BHH may not be following the case on a daily basis and may have been responding to questions based on what was being reported in the press.

Or, what may have been a legitimate lead a few months ago may have been discarded since.

[John]

Paul Luckman of The Portugal Press emphasized the point very clearly in his interview on Radio 5 Live on 24 April 2014.  He stated that these continual claims in the British Press that arrests are imminent are nonsense and will do little to create good relations between the Portuguese and British police.  Transcript here.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0418mms

[Carana]

Paul Luckman of The Portugal Press emphasized the point very clearly in his interview on Radio 5 Live on 24 April 2014.  He stated that these continual claims in the British Press that arrests are imminent are nonsense and will do little to create good relations between the Portuguese and British police.  Transcript here.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0418mms

I agree that imminent arrests are tabloid fodder. However, he seems quite close to Amaral, for some reason.

[Carana]

I have found Brendan de Beer more realiable as a real journalist over time.

[Brietta]

I have found Brendan de Beer more realiable as a real journalist over time.

Paul Luckman:
Umm I think I have to question it, umm we have certainly heard nothing of these cases & anything involving foreigners comes pretty quickly to our ears, it's inevitable, we are the largest English paper in Portugal, you get to hear about these things.  Umm..  I noticed locally & certainly nationally, none of the national papers have picked up on this story & they have extremely good police contacts here, I don't think anybody here is taking this seriously,
and you really begin to wonder , err huh, I wonder after all the MET have spent on this case if they are not looking to almost justify, were looking at what 7 million pounds at the minute.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3937.msg147913#msg147913

Portugal police re-opened case last October due to “new” evidence presented yesterday by Scotland Yard
by Carrie-Marie Bratley, in News • 20-03-2014 07:54:00 • 1 Comments

Portugal’s Polícia Judiciária (PJ) has told The Portugal News that yesterday’s press conference held by the Metropolitan Police simply confirmed a primary line of investigation which has been extensively probed by Portuguese police since last October.

Portugal police re-opened case last October due to “new” evidence presented yesterday by Scotland Yard
When questioned on Wednesday evening by The Portugal News about suggestions that the information released by the Met had initially been discounted by Portuguese detectives, a source within Portugal’s Polícia Judíciaria (PJ) headquarters in Lisbon said that this information was incorrect.

He said that evidence of a string of crimes, including a sexual predator’s activities at coastal resorts popular with holidaymakers in the western Algarve, had in fact been the main driving force behind Portuguese officials deciding to re-open the case.

“Looking into the activities of this particular individual was our primary line of investigation”, our police source said, adding: “It is all there in the police case files. You will see when it is made public.”

“We met with Andy Redwood and Madeleine’s parents last October to inform them of the reasons behind the decision of Portuguese authorities to re-open the case”, the police source stressed.

He added that revelations yesterday at the New Scotland Yard do not contain any further information other than what had already been passed on to the Metropolitan Police in the aforementioned meeting.

The source explained the investigation is still ongoing and is steadily proceeding in Portugal, “but with the discretion that has characterised it from the beginning.”

To date, three international letters of request have been sent to the Attorney-General’s office, but none have contained an official request to accompany field work or questioning of persons of interest by Portuguese detectives.

“Detectives from the Metropolitan Police Service have expressed the intention to come over to Portugal and assist in any inquires that might take place.  But this intention has not yet been made official”, the source said.
Questioned over what he thought of British police modus operandi or their public venting of frustration yesterday over Portuguese police seemingly dragging their heels, he replied: “All I can say is that the British have an excellent police force.”

The Attorney-General’s office in Lisbon, which initially ordered the case to be re-opened last Autumn, declined to comment when questioned last night by the Guardian, citing Portugal’s strict secrecy laws.
Scotland Yard was not immediately available for comment.

http://theportugalnews.com/news/portugal-police-re-opened-case-last-october-due-to-new-evidence-presented-yesterday-by-scotland-yard/30998


Mr Luckman lost credibility with me when I watched the Eamonn Holmes interview on Sky when he adamantly assured that after checking “we couldn’t find anything to back that one up” when asked about burglaries.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oKx0ND1jBwA

Mr Luckman edits the Portugal News which reported on the case under discussion in the radio interview a month ago. 

I despair of a person going on air and making assertions which IMO are plainly at variance with actualité. 

I for one will take with a large pinch of salt anything on which Mr Luckman expresses an opinion.

[Carana]

@ Brietta

Brendan seems ok to me.

[Carana]

Nicky Campbell: And you have lines of inquiry, you have 'suspects' lines of inquiry; you have names.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe: That's right.

Either BHH is so shit at his job that he quotes information from tabloids or IMO the PJ do not agree with SY's suspects.

I don't see anything odd in that. They have a list of people who are persons of interest. What do you find strange?

[Brietta]

@ Brietta

Brendan seems ok to me.

I wasn't familiar with his name, Carana, but I've just checked him out and I have read many of his articles over the years.  I too think he is an excellent journalist.