Author Topic: Are the PJ and SY singing from the same hymn sheet?  (Read 11605 times)

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Offline Mr Moderator

Re: Are the PJ and SY singing from the same hymn sheet?
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2014, 04:15:16 PM »
The GNR and the PJ will know most of these burglars and are best placed to rule them out.  SY are effectively very much out of their depth in the Algarve and are almost totally reliant on the Portuguese except for the odd Brit who chooses to speak to them.

Ultimately, this will hinder any effective investigation that SY may wish to pursue.  Bottom line is the Portuguese do not want to be left looking like incompetent fools on their own patch so does anyone really believe that they would cooperate in any joint operation which could in any way  provide this outcome?
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 04:18:32 PM by Mr Moderator »

Offline Carana

Re: Are the PJ and SY singing from the same hymn sheet?
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2014, 04:50:53 PM »
The GNR and the PJ will know most of these burglars and are best placed to rule them out.  SY are effectively very much out of their depth in the Algarve and are almost totally reliant on the Portuguese except for the odd Brit who chooses to speak to them.

Ultimately, this will hinder any effective investigation that SY may wish to pursue.  Bottom line is the Portuguese do not want to be left looking like incompetent fools on their own patch so does anyone really believe that they would cooperate in any joint operation which could in any way  provide this outcome?

Interesting question.

Despite national pride (that exists in every country), and screw-ups (which also happen in every country)... a real issue may be lack of resources (financial, human, training, the investment in changing the culture of an organisation, etc). I would find it human for them to feel that they did the best that they could under the circumstances. And I've no doubt many officers and volunteers did their very best.

However, surely the bosses could have found an excuse to remove the original team off the case far earlier onto other "important" cases elsewhere? Or did no one really have the time to supervise them?

Personally, I have more respect for authorities (or individuals) who can admit a screw-up and do what they can to make amends.

In the meantime, there is a serial child abuser who doesn't appear to have been investigated and a missing child.

These alleged abuses started in 2004. I'm not aware that there was any coordinator other than Amaral at the time, although I'd be happy to be corrected on that. If that's the case, what did Amaral actually do to investigate them? He was the coordinator from Faro for the Cipriano case in 2004 (not sure when he actually took up the coordinator function prior to that), until he was finally removed in October 2007 from the McCann case.


Offline Carana

Re: Are the PJ and SY singing from the same hymn sheet?
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2014, 04:53:39 PM »
The GNR and the PJ will know most of these burglars and are best placed to rule them out. 
A different issue is that there are 3 different police entities. Is there any evidence that they share a common database... or even that they had even separate ones back then?

Offline Luz

Re: Are the PJ and SY singing from the same hymn sheet?
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2014, 11:06:59 AM »
It's obvious the PJ is pursuing the reopened investigation & NSY is....only they know what they are doing!

It's reassuring that although the PJ team assigned to respond to the rogatories from UK are doing their job (unlike what happened the other way round in 2007/2008), the investigative team that was appointed to recover the original investigation is not falling for NSY's hysterical twirl.

Offline Carana

Re: Are the PJ and SY singing from the same hymn sheet?
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2014, 02:52:16 PM »
It's obvious the PJ is pursuing the reopened investigation & NSY is....only they know what they are doing!

It's reassuring that although the PJ team assigned to respond to the rogatories from UK are doing their job (unlike what happened the other way round in 2007/2008), the investigative team that was appointed to recover the original investigation is not falling for NSY's hysterical twirl.

From what I've understood, there are two PJ teams.


- A Faro team to follow up on the ILORs from the UK

- The Oporto team, which managed to get the case reopened as a result of their own review and is investigating new leads or those which were not sufficiently investigated at the time




Offline Carana

Re: Are the PJ and SY singing from the same hymn sheet?
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2014, 02:55:26 PM »
The GNR and the PJ will know most of these burglars and are best placed to rule them out.  SY are effectively very much out of their depth in the Algarve and are almost totally reliant on the Portuguese except for the odd Brit who chooses to speak to them.

Ultimately, this will hinder any effective investigation that SY may wish to pursue.  Bottom line is the Portuguese do not want to be left looking like incompetent fools on their own patch so does anyone really believe that they would cooperate in any joint operation which could in any way  provide this outcome?

Have the GNR, PSP and the PJ ever had a common database?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Are the PJ and SY singing from the same hymn sheet?
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2014, 03:14:59 PM »
The GNR and the PJ will know most of these burglars and are best placed to rule them out.  SY are effectively very much out of their depth in the Algarve and are almost totally reliant on the Portuguese except for the odd Brit who chooses to speak to them.

Ultimately, this will hinder any effective investigation that SY may wish to pursue.  Bottom line is the Portuguese do not want to be left looking like incompetent fools on their own patch so does anyone really believe that they would cooperate in any joint operation which could in any way  provide this outcome?

Can they refuse? They can be awkward but if the refuse to help with the SY line of investigation I think it will cause a massive reaction against Portugal. SY are being very diplomatic in the hope that they will cooperate but if they won't SY cannot simply walk away. You are right in thinking they wont cooperate because it will make them look foolish

Cornelius

  • Guest
Re: Are the PJ and SY singing from the same hymn sheet?
« Reply #22 on: May 02, 2014, 03:54:57 PM »
The GNR and the PJ will know most of these burglars and are best placed to rule them out.  SY are effectively very much out of their depth in the Algarve and are almost totally reliant on the Portuguese except for the odd Brit who chooses to speak to them.

Ultimately, this will hinder any effective investigation that SY may wish to pursue.  Bottom line is the Portuguese do not want to be left looking like incompetent fools on their own patch so does anyone really believe that they would cooperate in any joint operation which could in any way  provide this outcome?

Even were a JIT set up it would under the control of the Portuguese according the EU Council Resolution 2010/C70/01. As they are the Member State in which the investigation is being carried out.

Offline Carana

Re: Are the PJ and SY singing from the same hymn sheet?
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2014, 04:04:55 PM »
Even were a JIT set up it would under the control of the Portuguese according the EU Council Resolution 2010/C70/01. As they are the Member State in which the investigation is being carried out.

So what is the (potential) obstruction about?

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Are the PJ and SY singing from the same hymn sheet?
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2014, 04:07:02 PM »
Even were a JIT set up it would under the control of the Portuguese according the EU Council Resolution 2010/C70/01. As they are the Member State in which the investigation is being carried out.

So the Portuguese can assist SY or very clearly be seen to obstruct the investigation into a missing child

Cornelius

  • Guest
Re: Are the PJ and SY singing from the same hymn sheet?
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2014, 04:12:44 PM »
So what is the (potential) obstruction about?

How the hell would I know?
But as I see it if the MPS want a joint investigation they can ask the Portuguese.
The Portuguese may refuse if they wish.
If the MPS don't like the reaction they can refer back through the EU Council.
Is there evidence the MPS have asked Portugal for a JIT ? (other than the Daily Mirror maybe)
Can any poster provide anything other than supposition?
If so post the links to the relevant documents.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Are the PJ and SY singing from the same hymn sheet?
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2014, 04:22:04 PM »
How the hell would I know?
But as I see it if the MPS want a joint investigation they can ask the Portuguese.
The Portuguese may refuse if they wish.
If the MPS don't like the reaction they can refer back through the EU Council.
Is there evidence the MPS have asked Portugal for a JIT ? (other than the Daily Mirror maybe)
Can any poster provide anything other than supposition?
If so post the links to the relevant documents.

It's more than supposition...all the information we are receiving points to Portugal resenting the involvement of SY...if SY are going to be involved they will need to do some serious arm twising

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Are the PJ and SY singing from the same hymn sheet?
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2014, 04:28:12 PM »
It's more than supposition...all the information we are receiving points to Portugal resenting the involvement of SY...if SY are going to be involved they will need to do some serious arm twising

Are you surprised the PJ aren't cooperating ?

The largely xenophobic UK press in this case hasn't helped.

When they asked for it from the Leicestershire Police, they got b....r all.

It is also quite feasible all the 'persons of interest' have already been eliminated.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Are the PJ and SY singing from the same hymn sheet?
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2014, 04:41:12 PM »
Are you surprised the PJ aren't cooperating ?

The largely xenophobic UK press in this case hasn't helped.

When they asked for it from the Leicestershire Police, they got b....r all.

It is also quite feasible all the 'persons of interest' have already been eliminated.

I am not surprised at all...as a previous poster pointed out they could end up looking pretty stupid if SY are allowed to follow up their leads......I don't think the UK government...I think it could go that far...will let them get away with obstructing the SY investigation

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Are the PJ and SY singing from the same hymn sheet?
« Reply #29 on: May 02, 2014, 05:33:40 PM »
I am not surprised at all...as a previous poster pointed out they could end up looking pretty stupid if SY are allowed to follow up their leads......I don't think the UK government...I think it could go that far...will let them get away with obstructing the SY investigation

You seem to forget they have no power in the investigation.

Given all the xenophobia the Portuguese have been the recipient of, I would tell some members of the UK press to chav off.