Luz declares the Portuguese libel trial is not a libel trial ?

[Mr Gray]

That's already been tried.

On 29 October 2013 amaral was asked...and he answerred

In the ongoing trial which opposes you against the McCanns, they are asking you for 1.2 million euro for defamation.

What is a stake is a trial for the crime of having an opinion, something which is unthinkable in the free and democratic Portugal post-25 de Abril [Carnation Revolution that freed Portugal from 48 years of dictatorship]. Actually, there are no facts to sustain that demand for indemnification (...) The authors of the action want  others to believe that my opinion as well as of those who worked with me, Portuguese and English police, which was expressed in the book and in the documentary, has harmed their efforts to find the child and has caused them moral damages. However this premise lacks precise facts.

So hasn't luz told amaral its not a libel trial

[Carana]

If I ever find that Luz has substantiated her view on a particular point, with even two (as opposed to the standard three) reliable independent sources at a pinch to back it up, I would agree with her point unless there was a fundamental flaw.

It is now seven years to the day that she disappeared. (Madeleine, not Luz.) She is by no means the only missing child in the world, but she is still missing. Whether or not the assaults that some continue to allege never happened are connected or not, those other families deserve justice as well... to say nothing of any other potential families if this or these persons are still at large.

Everyone knows that the Algarve depends on tourism... but catching the culprit will do far more to restore confidence than pretending these assaults never happened.

[Mr Moderator]

Luz has been posting things that are untrue for some time and that's why I felt it was important to highlight it. I can't understand why a moderator should then support Luz and claim she has superior knowledge...bizarre

Mr Davel, if that comment is aimed at me I suggest you withdraw it.  I did NOT state that Luz had 'superior' knowledge.  I stated that as a Portuguese national she should be aware of the Law in Portugal but that alone was no guarantee that she would share this experience and knowledge here.

[John]

Anyone who has followed the trial in Lisbon can see that the question under consideration by the court relates to Dr Gonçalo Amaral's thesis and whether the publication of his book and DVD was damaging to the McCann family and the search for Madeleine.

My own view is that the book and DVD did not hamper the search but made many more people aware of it.  That said I would agree that the book and DVD were very damaging to an innocent family.

[stephen25000]

Anyone who has followed the trial in Lisbon can see that the question under consideration by the court relates to Dr Gonçalo Amaral's thesis and whether the publication of his book and DVD was damaging to the McCann family and the search for Madeleine.

My own view is that the book and DVD did not hamper the search but made many more people aware of it.  That said I would agree that the book and DVD were very damaging to an innocent family.

Damaging. In what way John ?

and what damage has resulted from the Mccanns leaving their children unattended and unprotected for several successive nights prior to Madeleine's disappearance ?

[Mr Gray]

Mr Davel, if that comment is aimed at me I suggest you withdraw it.  I did NOT state that Luz had 'superior' knowledge.  I stated that as a Portuguese national she should be aware of the Law in Portugal but that alone was no guarantee that she would share this experience and knowledge here.

This is what you posted...Mr Davel.  As a Portuguese national Luz knows better than most of us how the Law works in her country.  Whether she chooses to share that knowledge is another matter.


Well it is obvious that luz does not know better than most of us...in fact it appears she knows LESS than most of us

[Mr Gray]

Damaging. In what way John ?

and what damage has resulted from the Mccanns leaving their children unattended and unprotected for several successive nights prior to Madeleine's disappearance ?

In a libel trial..and that's what this is...that is irrelevant...the accusations would be libellous in the uk..and from what I have read are also libellous in portugal

[Carana]

On 29 October 2013 amaral was asked...and he answerred

In the ongoing trial which opposes you against the McCanns, they are asking you for 1.2 million euro for defamation.

What is a stake is a trial for the crime of having an opinion, something which is unthinkable in the free and democratic Portugal post-25 de Abril [Carnation Revolution that freed Portugal from 48 years of dictatorship]. Actually, there are no facts to sustain that demand for indemnification (...) The authors of the action want  others to believe that my opinion as well as of those who worked with me, Portuguese and English police, which was expressed in the book and in the documentary, has harmed their efforts to find the child and has caused them moral damages. However this premise lacks precise facts.

So hasn't luz told amaral its not a libel trial

Perhaps she has been too busy to do so?

[stephen25000]

In a libel trial..and that's what this is...that is irrelevant...the accusations would be libellous in the uk..and from what I have read are also libellous in portugal

Tell me davel, when normal police are investigating a case and believe someone is guilty of a crime when they accuse them of one, are they committing libel ?  >@@(*&)

[Mr Gray]

Tell me davel, when normal police are investigating a case and believe someone is guilty of a crime when they accuse them of one, are they committing libel ?  >@@(*&)

Surprised you don't know the answer to this one...

if they follow the correct procedure...arrest ...evidence..charge of course not...If they  went to a newspaper and made allegations...yes they would be

[Carana]

In a libel trial..and that's what this is...that is irrelevant...the accusations would be libellous in the uk..and from what I have read are also libellous in portugal

Hmm. I wouldn't count on that. I don't think that what would be accepted as libel in the UK can be equated with this trial in PT.

I have no idea how this trial will pan out. Whatever happens, it will probably be another 10 years before the Supreme Court eventually rules on it anyway. Hopefully, whatever has happened to Madeleine will be known way before that. At least I hope so.

[Mr Gray]

Hmm. I wouldn't count on that. I don't think that what would be accepted as libel in the UK can be equated with this trial in PT.

I have no idea how this trial will pan out. Whatever happens, it will probably be another 10 years before the Supreme Court eventually rules on it anyway. Hopefully, whatever has happened to Madeleine will be known way before that. At least I hope so.

I'm not counting on anything but as I understand libel law in Portugal is similar to the USA and in most states this would be classed as libel

[ferryman]

In a libel trial..and that's what this is...that is irrelevant...the accusations would be libellous in the uk..and from what I have read are also libellous in portugal

There is some debate about where the burden of proof in a Portuguese libel trial lies.

Wherever it lies, there is no dispute that the McCanns can prove that statements about them that lower their reputation are also untrue.

That'll do!

It will ensure the McCanns win the libel trial.

[Mr Gray]

I remember the daily mail accusing steven lawrences killers in their paper...they knew that the accused would not dare sue them for libel....

perhaps amaral felt the same...perhaps he thought he had a good defence...but he did not understand the forensics and the dogs..he was probably quite shocked when he was sued

[Mr Gray]

Tell me davel, when normal police are investigating a case and believe someone is guilty of a crime when they accuse them of one, are they committing libel ?  >@@(*&)

tell me Stephen...have you ever heard the police ACCUSE someone....they normally charge someone who is presumed innocent..remember