Author Topic: Was Sheila Seen In The Kichen By EP?  (Read 23336 times)

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Offline puglove

Re: Was Sheila Seen In The Kichen By EP?
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2015, 11:26:56 PM »
Um, I think it still has Nevill in situ and I think the general idea if crime scene photos is the Police aren't meant to 'tidy them up a bit'?!

Yes, as I wrote to Myster, I'm probably wrong.

I do still struggle with Nevill/Ralph's position, perched on the edge of the chair, though. To me, it looks like he was placed after rigor mortis set in, because it's an impossible position. His knees would have given way, and he would have fallen to the floor.

We'll probably never know.
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline Passer-by

Re: Was Sheila Seen In The Kichen By EP?
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2015, 11:50:20 PM »
I'm having difficulty with the smashed lampshade leaving glass all over the floor.  What in your opinion is the dark blue thing near the ceiling?

Offline puglove

Re: Was Sheila Seen In The Kichen By EP?
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2015, 11:58:07 PM »
I'm having difficulty with the smashed lampshade leaving glass all over the floor.  What in your opinion is the dark blue thing near the ceiling?

It looks like a jacket to me, just above that weird thing you have to have if you're unfortunate enough to own an Aga and want to make toast.

I know that the lampshade was antique, and difficult to replace. (Sorry if I'm not keeping up with you, I've got one eye on a morbidly-obese foster pug!)
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline puglove

Re: Was Sheila Seen In The Kichen By EP?
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2015, 12:01:08 AM »
Who do you think placed the cushions and clothes around the scuttle, to catch the blood?
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline puglove

Re: Was Sheila Seen In The Kichen By EP?
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2015, 12:07:59 AM »
It looks like a jacket to me, just above that weird thing you have to have if you're unfortunate enough to own an Aga and want to make toast.

I know that the lampshade was antique, and difficult to replace. (Sorry if I'm not keeping up with you, I've got one eye on a morbidly-obese foster pug!)

A jacket that is airing in the gruesome up-stream from the Aga.

(I'm with Clarissa Dickson Wright when it comes to Agas!)
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline Passer-by

Re: Was Sheila Seen In The Kichen By EP?
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2015, 12:34:20 AM »
Yes, as I wrote to Myster, I'm probably wrong.

I do still struggle with Nevill/Ralph's position, perched on the edge of the chair, though. To me, it looks like he was placed after rigor mortis set in, because it's an impossible position. His knees would have given way, and he would have fallen to the floor.

We'll probably never know.

Seems unlikely given the highly undignified photo of him on the blue floor of, I assume, the Pathologist's lab (in which he seems to have acquired blue and white floral shorts/boxers - any theories on why his trousers were down?) - he'd have been an incredible weight to manoeuvre and clearly they didn't manage it well when they removed him from the body bag.  I think looks like the largest 'Captain's Chair' was already lying sideways on the floor and then he appears to be straddling the uppermost side of the back of it, so that would have kept his pelvis the same height as the coal scuttle and his spine would have formed an arch between the two, given his weight would have prevented the chair from pushing back, and the angle his head was in the scuttle would stop that from sliding forward.

Pic I'm thinking of is here
http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1047.msg29947#msg29947

It clearly isn't where the chair is meant to be:  in the tidied up photos it's to the right of the Aga, a more convenient corner, because where it was found in the crime scene photos, if he liked to sit there he would have been blocking the door and also whoever was cooking's access to what looks like a dishwasher.  So if the chair was on the right of the Aga but was knocked over sending it to the left of the Aga, it's a bit strange that it is lying on the side it is - I'd expect it to be knocked over with the back pointing towards the dishwasher, just as the other chair is knocked over in that direction.  It suggests the two chairs weren't knocked over at the same time.  It also looks impossible for a policeman to get right Nevill and the chair to get to the stairs without disturbing the scene.

Another odd thing is that Nevill appears to be on top of a spread-out pair of pressed trousers, any thoughts?  Could he have been getting dressed in the kitchen to go out to attend to a calf? and another odd thing is that looks remarkably like 2 cushions one on top of each other next to his head, yet only the lower one has blood on it.  The white town has blood soaked into it in several places, almost like it was used to tend to a wound.

And in the photo I put up for the lampshade problem:  what are those white dots on the floor to the right of the picture:  are they bullet casings?

I find it curious that the chair to his right is knocked forwards, it's actually quite hard to do.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2015, 02:34:57 PM by Angelo222 »

Offline Passer-by

Re: Was Sheila Seen In The Kichen By EP?
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2015, 12:37:33 AM »
A jacket that is airing in the gruesome up-stream from the Aga.

(I'm with Clarissa Dickson Wright when it comes to Agas!)

Surely the Aga wouldn't be in in August?  My in laws have another cooker (making me wonder what the point of an Aga is ;-) ).  It looks nearer the foreground than the Aga and there's no sign of a light:  I wondered if it was in fact a plastic lampshade that's been shredded in a fight rather than a glass one.  I believe Bamber pointed up at the lampshade when AE showed him round, which struck me as odd, because when you break something glass it usuall goes to smithereens and falls down.

Offline Passer-by

Re: Was Sheila Seen In The Kichen By EP?
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2015, 12:39:32 AM »
Who do you think placed the cushions and clothes around the scuttle, to catch the blood?

I hadn't thought of it to catch the blood!  Of course:  do you think someone put his head in the coal scuttle to catch the blood?

Offline Passer-by

Re: Was Sheila Seen In The Kichen By EP?
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2015, 12:44:47 AM »
That would explain the trousers laid out as well:  to dam the blood flow! Hence they have soaked up a lot  but then there was so much blood it continued through.  Well done for thinking of that  8@??)(

Offline Myster

Re: Was Sheila Seen In The Kichen By EP?
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2015, 06:40:34 AM »
Yes, as I wrote to Myster, I'm probably wrong.

I do still struggle with Nevill/Ralph's position, perched on the edge of the chair, though. To me, it looks like he was placed after rigor mortis set in, because it's an impossible position. His knees would have given way, and he would have fallen to the floor.

We'll probably never know.

But Rigor supposedly only starts between two to six hours following death, and Livor mortis/Hypostasis was consistent with the position he was found...

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=672

You mean Nevill was lifted to his final position by whom?
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Passer-by

Re: Was Sheila Seen In The Kichen By EP?
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2015, 08:57:00 AM »
But Rigor supposedly only starts between two to six hours following death, and Livor mortis/Hypostasis was consistent with the position he was found...

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=199.0;attach=672

You mean Nevill was lifted to his final position by whom?

I don't know whether before or after Livor/Rigor Mortis, but yes:  I now think his head was lifted and placed in the coal scuttle to contain blood flow after the trousers and cushions failed to stop it spreading.  I can't see why the murderer would give a tinkers and it would need to be a bloke to be strong enough - so perhaps the police did it so the floor of their main access to the house wouldn't be slippery with a huge pool of blood?

Offline Passer-by

Re: Was Sheila Seen In The Kichen By EP?
« Reply #41 on: August 12, 2015, 08:59:43 AM »
I need Holly here!  She helps me find the pics and witness quotes!  8)><(

But I'm pretty certain the police and Bamber all said that when they arrived the lights were on inside the house, so I don't see how they could be so terribly mistaken about seeing a woman in the kitchen.  Nevill's untrousered backside was facing the window and I doubt that looked feminine?

Offline Passer-by

Re: Was Sheila Seen In The Kichen By EP?
« Reply #42 on: August 12, 2015, 09:58:30 AM »
Sorry:  I keep posting scrappy little messages every time another thought pings into my head.

Why would someone try to clear-up the mess?  I can't think of a single reason why Bamber, if he was trying to stage a suicide, would rearrange Nevill to minimise blood flow into the kitchen.

Could this indicate Sheila did indeed go around tidying up a bit . . . ?  Could she have been doing that, rinsing her menses-stained clothes in a bucket (without even thinking about spatter) before putting on a clean nightie, going upstairs to shoot herself?  Could she have reset the breakfast things if that was necessary? 

This is why it would be good to know more about the 'glass' lampshade and where the sugar was.  It was stated she would have blood all over her feet after the fight in the kitchen if she had done it, yet here in the photo we see there isn't blood all over the kitchen floor.

Offline Passer-by

Re: Was Sheila Seen In The Kichen By EP?
« Reply #43 on: August 12, 2015, 10:35:40 AM »
What are these white things on the floor:  cartridges? Sugar lumps?


Offline Anna

Re: Was Sheila Seen In The Kichen By EP?
« Reply #44 on: August 12, 2015, 11:07:29 AM »
Sorry:  I keep posting scrappy little messages every time another thought pings into my head.

Why would someone try to clear-up the mess?  I can't think of a single reason why Bamber, if he was trying to stage a suicide, would rearrange Nevill to minimise blood flow into the kitchen.

Could this indicate Sheila did indeed go around tidying up a bit . . . ?  Could she have been doing that, rinsing her menses-stained clothes in a bucket (without even thinking about spatter) before putting on a clean nightie, going upstairs to shoot herself?  Could she have reset the breakfast things if that was necessary? 

This is why it would be good to know more about the 'glass' lampshade and where the sugar was.  It was stated she would have blood all over her feet after the fight in the kitchen if she had done it, yet here in the photo we see there isn't blood all over the kitchen floor.


Sheila putting her heavily blood stained clothing in a bucket,(hidden in full view) before washing/showering and changing, was something that I considered too.
Anne binned the contents of that bucket with heavily blood stained clothing. We will never know what was really in that bucket.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato