Madeleine McCann. Sniffer dogs brought in to help with scrubland dig.

[Eleanor]

Good link. Of course, these dogs can do some remarkable things, but we all know (or should do) that they are not infallible. They may not lie, but they certainly don't always get it right. 

It depends on what you want them to find.  Specks of blood to an actual cadaver, with anything in between, seems a bit of alright to me.

[Victoria]

Thanks for that.  So normal Cadaver Dogs.

Yes, normal cadaver dogs. They are all pretty much the same, whether their names are Eddie, Tito, Rex or Rover.

[Victoria]

You are quoting 3 Daily Mirror journalists, you do realise that don't you ?
I would prefer a citation from an official government body, not the words of 3 hacks who in the same article profess that the dig site is a  mere 300 yards from apartment 5A, which is patently untrue.

Perhaps you'd prefer a quote directly from one of their handlers?

PC Richards said: “They are trained from 18 months old, as that’s when they are mature enough to go on a course. We train them with different substances, but mainly pigs because they are closest to humans. They are trained to find anything from tiny specks of blood which are hard for the human eye to see to a full-sized victim, and everything in between."

[Victoria]

Quote from cadaver dog handler confirming they are trained with pig carcasses can be found here:

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/archive/2013/11/15/10812286.Search_for_missing_Newbridge_man_goes_on_as_anniversary_nears/?ref=arc

[Eleanor]

You are quoting 3 Daily Mirror journalists, you do realise that don't you ?
I would prefer a citation from an official government body, not the words of 3 hacks who in the same article profess that the dig site is a  mere 300 yards from apartment 5A, which is patently untrue.

You will have to put in an FOI Request to The Welsh Police for that.  But no doubt they will be delighted to respond.  As if they haven't got better things to do.

Oh, and could you ask how much they get paid?

[Victoria]

Where does PC Richards make this statement ? Link or citation please !

Count up four posts from this one for the link.

[Eleanor]

So once again you post on this thread with out corroborating citations, no surprise there !

I've told you where to find it.  You look for it.

[pathfinder73]

Quote from cadaver dog handler confirming they are trained with pig carcasses can be found here:

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/archive/2013/11/15/10812286.Search_for_missing_Newbridge_man_goes_on_as_anniversary_nears/?ref=arc

So what Eddie didn't alert to a dead pig in 5A. They all train with them but you see dead humans being found in cases not dead pigs unless you can show me some reports where cadaver dogs have found dead pigs instead of missing people?

[Eleanor]

And I would do this why exactly ?

You want to know.  You keep on asking for corroboration.  These are the people to tell you.

PS.  Could you post it up when you get it?

Thanks in Advance.

[Martina]

So what Eddie didn't alert to a dead pig in 5A. They all train with them but you see dead humans being found in cases not dead pigs unless you can show me some reports where cadaver dogs have found dead pigs instead of missing people?

If these dogs were trained to react to smell of the rotting pig meat, they would be hitting on every rubbish container, kitchen, butchery and restaurant in the area. In other words they would be totally useless.

And the retrievers are trained first with the sticks, but you can bet your rear end they are not retrieving the sticks during the hunt.

[John]

All Cadaver Dogs will fix on the nearest odour they can find if there is no human cadaver present.  This could be body fluids from live humans, or animal cadavers, including pigs on which these two were trained.

That is a sweeping generalisation Eleanor and not entirely factually correct. Bearing in mind that most victim recovery dogs are trained using pig remains (using human remains is illegal in the UK) it does not follow that they will alert to other animals.  In fact, since every dog is different and experiences similar but not identical training it cannot be assumed that every VRD will only alert to pigs or humans.

For the record, Eddie was different, he was labeled as an Enhanced VRD specifically because in addition to the normal training with baby pig carcasses he received special training in the USA using human cadaver.

[Eleanor]

That is a sweeping generalisation Eleanor and not entirely factually correct. Bearing in mind that most victim recovery dogs are trained using pig remains (using human remains is illegal in the UK) it does not follow that they will alert to other animals.  In fact, since every dog is different and experiences similar but not identical training it cannot be assumed that every VRD will only alert to pigs or humans.

For the record, Eddie was different, he was labeled as an Enhanced VRD specifically because in addition to the normal training with baby pig carcasses he received special training in the USA using human cadaver.

Eddie was never taken to The US of A and trained on Human Cadaver while he was owned by The Yorkshire Police, and therefor not before he went to PdL.
It is an illegal practice in The UK.

Or are you telling me that The UK Police are allowed to ship their Victim Recovery Dogs across The Atlantic to be trained in a way that is illegal in Britain?

[Silkywhiskers]

Oh Look!

Another "dogs are crap" attempt.

Seems irrelevant that those crap dogs have been flown back into PDL to help for the search.

Call them up and tell them they are wasting good tax payers money deploying useless animals.

[John]

Eddie was never taken to The US of A and trained on Human Cadaver while he was owned by The Yorkshire Police, and therefor not before he went to PdL.
It is an illegal practice in The UK.

Or are you telling me that The UK Police are allowed to ship their Victim Recovery Dogs across The Atlantic to be trained in a way that is illegal in Britain?

I am sorry but you are simply misinformed Eleanor.  Eddie received enhanced training in human cadavers at a FBI facility in the US before Martin went to Portugal.  It might be illegal to train dogs using human cadavers in the UK but there is nothing to stop anyone travelling to the US to train.

Someone also commented earlier that Eddie would alert to pork products such as waste found in bins etc.  This is not the case as Eddie alerted to decomposing pig meat, not foodstuffs.

Buzz posted the extract from Martin's Report to the Portuguese which contains all this information.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

[Eleanor]

I am sorry but you are simply misinformed Eleanor.  Eddie received enhanced training in human cadavers at a FBI facility in the US before Martin went to Portugal.  It might be illegal to train digs using human cadavers in the UK but there is nothing to stop anyone travelling to the US to train.

Someone also commented earlier that Eddie would alert to pork products such as waste found in bins etc.  This is not the case as Eddie alerted to decomposing pig meat, not foodstuffs.

Buzz posted the extract from Martin's Report to the Portuguese which contains all this information.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARTIN_GRIMES.htm

Dear John, I have to wonder who paid for this trip to America as Eddie was owned by The Yorkshire Police at the time and I just can't see them allowing one of their handlers to take one of their dogs to America, and paying for it, especially as this practice was and still is illegal in Britain.