Madeleine's last movements tracked by the GNR sniffer dogs.

[VIXTE]

The abductor opened the window, to make it look like a burglary & to dispel the smell of chloroform more quickly.
Maybe he (or she) would have passed out themselves without the fresh air.

Chloroform?

You think that was used? In PDL?

Wouldn't it be a little bit hard to buy it anywhere in Algarve let alone PDL.

If this was the case then this chloroform would have been brought in from somewhere else and whoever took Madeleine would then disappear together with her.. SY and PJ would know through the phone records if anyone left PDL and never came back..

[Martina]

The abductor opened the window, to make it look like a burglary & to dispel the smell of chloroform more quickly.
Maybe he (or she) would have passed out themselves without the fresh air.

Why would the abductor want to make it look like a burglary? It would be much esier for him to direct the suspicion at the parents by not opening that window.

And there was no risk of passing out for the abductor, unless he sniffed the cloth he used to sedate Maddie. Chloroform is a liquid, you know, not a gas. Anyway it requires about five minutes (shorter time for a small child but it still would not work thunder fast) of inhaling to get incapacitated by it. Incapacitation with ether takes even longer.

[misty]

Chloroform?

You think that was used? In PDL?

Wouldn't it be a little bit hard to buy it anywhere in Algarve let alone PDL.

If this was the case then this chloroform would have been brought in from somewhere else and whoever took Madeleine would then disappear together with her.. SY and PJ would know through the phone records if anyone left PDL and never came back..

Taken form Wikipedia under "Chloroform"
Inadvertent formation of chloroform

The haloform reaction can also occur inadvertently in domestic settings. Bleaching with hypochlorite generates halogenated compounds in side reactions; chloroform is the main byproduct.[19] Sodium hypochlorite solution (chlorine bleach) mixed with common household liquids such as acetone, butanone, ethanol, or isopropyl alcohol can produce some chloroform, in addition to other compounds such as chloroacetone or dichloroacetone.

Anyone cleaning swimming pools would have a supply of chlorine.
RM had a key to a garage owned by his partner's estranged hubby which contained the necessary substance.

[Martina]

Taken form Wikipedia under "Chloroform"
Inadvertent formation of chloroform

The haloform reaction can also occur inadvertently in domestic settings. Bleaching with hypochlorite generates halogenated compounds in side reactions; chloroform is the main byproduct.[19] Sodium hypochlorite solution (chlorine bleach) mixed with common household liquids such as acetone, butanone, ethanol, or isopropyl alcohol can produce some chloroform, in addition to other compounds such as chloroacetone or dichloroacetone.

Anyone cleaning swimming pools would have a supply of chlorine.
RM had a key to a garage owned by his partner's estranged hubby which contained the necessary substance.

Just explain how would the perp make Maddie to inhale this home made chloroform for couple of minutes.

[misty]

Why would the abductor want to make it look like a burglary? It would be much esier for him to direct the suspicion at the parents by not opening that window.

And there was no risk of passing out for the abductor, unless he sniffed the cloth he used to sedate Maddie. Chloroform is a liquid, you know, not a gas. Anyway it requires about five minutes (shorter time for a small child but it still would not work thunder fast) of inhaling to get incapacitated by it. Incapacitation with ether takes even longer.

Opening the window was to divert suspicion from access being gained with a key, not to divert suspicion to the parents. The abductor could never have imagined the scenario which followed and the accusations made against the parents & their friends.
Re. the chloroform - there were 3 children to sedate, not just one.

[misty]

Just explain how would the perp make Maddie to inhale this home made chloroform for couple of minutes.

Umm...by holding a cloth soaked in the stuff over her nose & mouth?? She was sleeping...

[pegasus]

Umm...by holding a cloth soaked in the stuff over her nose & mouth?? She was sleeping...

So how do you deal with the shutter noise? Why do you even have him opening the window at all?

[Martina]

Opening the window was to divert suspicion from access being gained with a key, not to divert suspicion to the parents. The abductor could never have imagined the scenario which followed and the accusations made against the parents & their friends.

If the perp was not a total idiot with no functional brain cells, he would know that in case of the child missing from the locked flat the suspicion alls first on the ones who have the key. In this case that would be the parents, then eventually the OC workers. Still, if the OC worker was an active helper of the perp, he (or she) would not admit of lending that key to anyone.

Re. the chloroform - there were 3 children to sedate, not just one.

So how many time he spent in the apartment then? I remind you, chloroform does not sedate in an eye blink, the person being sedated must inhale it for a couple of minutes. And I repeat it is a liquid. You don't spray it around, you pour it on a rag and put that rag under the nose of the person that is supposed to be incapacitated.

[Martina]

Umm...by holding a cloth soaked in the stuff over her nose & mouth?? She was sleeping...

Both chloroform and ether have a very strong and rather smell and none of these substances would incapacitate her in a moment. She would need to inhale the chloroform for a couple of minutes and that smell would certainly wake her up.

[misty]

Both chloroform and ether have a very strong and rather smell and none of these substances would incapacitate her in a moment. She would need to inhale the chloroform for a couple of minutes and that smell would certainly wake her up.

We are getting very off-topic now.
Even if she awoke, someone smothering her face would prevent her uttering any real noise. She was only 3.
It's really funny, because so many don't have a problem with the time it would have taken for the McCanns to have cleaned up & hidden the body without trace in such a limited time frame, yet chloroforming for a few minutes is beyond the realms of possibility.
Such is life!

[Martina]

We are getting very off-topic now.
Even if she awoke, someone smothering her face would prevent her uttering any real noise. She was only 3.

When you smother someone, you close their airways, what actually would prevent any sedation by inhaling. The person sedated by chloroform has to inhale it, deeply, for couple of minutes. Pressing a rag, soaked with it to the victim's face orks only in the movies.

It's really funny, because so many don't have a problem with the time it would have taken for the McCanns to have cleaned up & hidden the body without trace in such a limited time frame, yet chloroforming for a few minutes is beyond the realms of possibility.
Such is life!

Because it is. Can you imagine the perp sitting these three - four minutes by each child, hoping they won't be awake by the smell? That's some nine to twelve minutes spent on sedating the children alone, a friggin lot in time for someone who has to do his deed in between the check-ups done every fifteen minutes.

[misty]

When you smother someone, you close their airways, what actually would prevent any sedation by inhaling. The person sedated by chloroform has to inhale it, deeply, for couple of minutes. Pressing a rag, soaked with it to the victim's face orks only in the movies.

Because it is. Can you imagine the perp sitting these three - four minutes by each child, hoping they won't be awake by the smell? That's some nine to twelve minutes spent on sedating the children alone, a friggin lot in time for someone who has to do his deed in between the check-ups done every fifteen minutes.

OK, not "smother" then, just holding it over the nose & mouth area so the child is gasping for breath, increasing the speed of inhalation.
But as Matthew didn't even enter the bedroom, and no-one is sure Gerry did either, I think the abductor had more than enough time to do the necessary.

[Martina]

OK, not "smother" then, just holding it over the nose & mouth area so the child is gasping for breath, increasing the speed of inhalation.
But as Matthew didn't even enter the bedroom, and no-one is sure Gerry did either, I think the abductor had more than enough time to do the necessary.

How comes they did not smell the aroma of chloroform?

[pegasus]

... no-one is sure...

But one person is sure, according to statement.

Back to the GNR dogs' trail, surely at least one or more of the various adults who entered the apartment from 10pm to 11pm would have at some point needed a wee? If so, there is the possibility they rinsed their hands, and used whatever towel happened to be there. So there is a possibility that a towel used by the missing child at bathtime, may also between 10pm and 11pm have been used by someone else. There was no sign on the towel "do not use this one"

[VIXTE]

But one person is sure, according to statement.

Back to the GNR dogs' trail, surely at least one or more of the various adults who entered the apartment from 10pm to 11pm would have at some point needed a wee? If so, there is the possibility they rinsed their hands, and used whatever towel happened to be there. So there is a possibility that a towel used by the missing child at bathtime, may also between 10pm and 11pm have been used by someone else. There was no sign on the towel "do not use this one"

According to Kate McCann's book Madeleine, page 85

I recall one of the GNR patrol officers asking us for some of  Madeleine's clothing or belonging to enable these dogs to identify her scent. I fetched the pink princess blanket she took to bed with her every night, which they took and some of her clothes which they didn't.