Author Topic: Kate's refusal on legal advice to answer those 48 questions.  (Read 85006 times)

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Offline Eleanor

Re: Kate's refusal on legal advice to answer those 48 questions.
« Reply #165 on: June 13, 2014, 09:37:26 AM »
Would you be kind enough to list the earlier answers to these questions, or at least indicate where they may be found?

Ask Albertini and Faithlilly.  They seem to know where these other questions and answers are recorded.

Offline jassi

Re: Kate's refusal on legal advice to answer those 48 questions.
« Reply #166 on: June 13, 2014, 09:42:29 AM »
Ask Albertini and Faithlilly.  They seem to know where these other questions and answers are recorded.

I was asking Brietta, as she raised the point, though answers from anyone would be helpful.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Benice

Re: Kate's refusal on legal advice to answer those 48 questions.
« Reply #167 on: June 13, 2014, 10:33:31 AM »
16. What does 'we let her down' mean?

What?  Are we being asked to believe that the PJ had no way of finding that out unless it was via Kate McCann - and that if she didn't tell them she was jeopardising the investigaton?   

I can understand that a non English speaker might be puzzled by the purely' literal' translation of that phrase - but any interpretor or even a UK policeman working alongside the PJ could have explained it to them in a flash.

IIRC there was a suggestion by Amaral (?)  that it was a medical term used by doctors when a patient died.  (from memory - so am happy to be corrected if necessary).   Quite wrong of course  - but so easy for the PJ to have established that with the minimum of effort.


The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline slartibartfast

Re: Kate's refusal on legal advice to answer those 48 questions.
« Reply #168 on: June 13, 2014, 11:38:55 AM »
16. What does 'we let her down' mean?

What?  Are we being asked to believe that the PJ had no way of finding that out unless it was via Kate McCann - and that if she didn't tell them she was jeopardising the investigaton?   

I can understand that a non English speaker might be puzzled by the purely' literal' translation of that phrase - but any interpretor or even a UK policeman working alongside the PJ could have explained it to them in a flash.

IIRC there was a suggestion by Amaral (?)  that it was a medical term used by doctors when a patient died.  (from memory - so am happy to be corrected if necessary).   Quite wrong of course  - but so easy for the PJ to have established that with the minimum of effort.

..of course he could have been asking her why she felt they had let M down? But the answer to that may have implied some blame.
“Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired”.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Kate's refusal on legal advice to answer those 48 questions.
« Reply #169 on: June 13, 2014, 12:02:19 PM »
Ask Albertini and Faithlilly.  They seem to know where these other questions and answers are recorded.

They aren't listed anywhere as they hadn't been asked before.

Kate attended three interrogations. One on the 4th May and the 6 and 7th of September and if the answer to any of the September the 7th questions are not in her two previous statements then the questions were not asked.

Of course if other forum members think I am incorrect I'm sure they will be able to post the duplicated questions.

Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Eleanor

Re: Kate's refusal on legal advice to answer those 48 questions.
« Reply #170 on: June 13, 2014, 12:07:33 PM »
They aren't listed anywhere as they hadn't been asked before.

Kate attended three interrogations. One on the 4th May and the 6 and 7th of September and if the answer to any of the September the 7th questions are not in her two previous statements then the questions were not asked.

Of course if other forum members think I am incorrect I'm sure they will be able to post the duplicated questions.

So who did ask the questions that had obviously been previously asked?

All I said was that these questions and answers didn't appear to have been recorded.

Perhaps it was Albertini who said that they were recorded.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Kate's refusal on legal advice to answer those 48 questions.
« Reply #171 on: June 13, 2014, 12:23:08 PM »
So who did ask the questions that had obviously been previously asked?

All I said was that these questions and answers didn't appear to have been recorded.

Perhaps it was Albertini who said that they were recorded.

The questions previously asked and answers given are in Kate's 4th May and 6th September statements and it is those answers she refers the PJ to in her 7th September interview.

Why is that for you to understand ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Brietta

Re: Kate's refusal on legal advice to answer those 48 questions.
« Reply #172 on: June 13, 2014, 12:33:45 PM »
So who did ask the questions that had obviously been previously asked?

All I said was that these questions and answers didn't appear to have been recorded.

Perhaps it was Albertini who said that they were recorded.

The assumption being made is that we have access to all the files.
We do not.
That some of these exact questions had already been answered as the arguida was unable to add anything to what she had answered before when she did not have the privilege of refusing to answer - it is self explanatory.

However I think the scandal here is not that she did not answer but that she has been so vilified for exercising her right not to answer.
These questions were not designed to assist in finding Madeleine McCann - they were designed to incriminate Kate McCann.

"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline faithlilly

Re: Kate's refusal on legal advice to answer those 48 questions.
« Reply #173 on: June 13, 2014, 12:44:08 PM »
The assumption being made is that we have access to all the files.
We do not.
That some of these exact questions had already been answered as the arguida was unable to add anything to what she had answered before when she did not have the privilege of refusing to answer - it is self explanatory.

However I think the scandal here is not that she did not answer but that she has been so vilified for exercising her right not to answer.
These questions were not designed to assist in finding Madeleine McCann - they were designed to incriminate Kate McCann.

Could you therefore furnish me with the questions already asked Briette or are they, conveniently, in the files we don't have access to ? Of course if the answers are in those 'files' it makes a nonsense of the claim that Kate's answers were not recorded.

Reading back over the questions it seems Kate, in the main, used the ' she wasn't to add anything' retort when viewing the cadaver dog video. Are you suggesting she was shown this before and asked questions about it ?
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Eleanor

Re: Kate's refusal on legal advice to answer those 48 questions.
« Reply #174 on: June 13, 2014, 12:45:58 PM »
The questions previously asked and answers given are in Kate's 4th May and 6th September statements and it is those answers she refers the PJ to in her 7th September interview.

Why is that for you to understand ?


43.   In the case files you were SHOWN CANINE forensic testing films, where you can see them marking due to detection of the scent of human corpse and blood traces, also human, and only human, as well as all the comments of the technician in charge of them. After watching and after the marking of the scent of corpse in your bedroom beside the wardrobe and behind the sofa, pushed up against the sofa wall, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
44.   When the sniffer dog also marked human blood behind the sofa, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
45.  When the sniffer dog marked the scent of corpse coming from the vehicle you hired a month after the disappearance, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
46.  When human blood was marked in the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
47.   When confronted with the results of Maddie’s DNA, whose analysis was carried out in a British laboratory, collected from behind the sofa and the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
48.   Did you have any responsibility or intervention in your daughter’s disappearance?
A QUESTION SHE DID ANSWER

-------------------------------------------------------

Kate certainly wasn't asked any of these questions in May.

She probably was asked them on September the 6th.  But that was my point.  Kate had already answered them.

And according to you she had answered the rest on May the 4th.

So this was just an exercise to make Kate look bad.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Kate's refusal on legal advice to answer those 48 questions.
« Reply #175 on: June 13, 2014, 12:58:36 PM »

43.   In the case files you were SHOWN CANINE forensic testing films, where you can see them marking due to detection of the scent of human corpse and blood traces, also human, and only human, as well as all the comments of the technician in charge of them. After watching and after the marking of the scent of corpse in your bedroom beside the wardrobe and behind the sofa, pushed up against the sofa wall, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
44.   When the sniffer dog also marked human blood behind the sofa, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
45.  When the sniffer dog marked the scent of corpse coming from the vehicle you hired a month after the disappearance, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
46.  When human blood was marked in the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
47.   When confronted with the results of Maddie’s DNA, whose analysis was carried out in a British laboratory, collected from behind the sofa and the boot of the vehicle, did you say you couldn’t explain any more than you already had?
48.   Did you have any responsibility or intervention in your daughter’s disappearance?
A QUESTION SHE DID ANSWER

-------------------------------------------------------

Kate certainly wasn't asked any of these questions in May.

She probably was asked them on September the 6th.  But that was my point.  Kate had already answered them.

And according to you she had answered the rest on May the 4th.

So this was just an exercise to make Kate look bad.

She probably was asked ?  Where ?

I'm sorry but a generic statement from Kate in no way proves your contention. Further even Kate doesn't claim in her book that she was asked certain questions twice, in fact quite the opposite.

So why are you claiming it ?

ETA Passage from Kate's book that deals with her questioning on the 7th of September.


"As anticipated, my interrogation began with João Carlos explaining that my status from this moment on had been changed from witness to arguida. He ran through the rights and obligations this conferred on me. I sat there quietly, trying to compose myself despite the anger bubbling below the surface. They haven’t beenlooking for Madeleine . . . Then they started. What had I seen and heard after entering apartment 5A at 10pm on 3 May 2007? Who called the police? At what time? Who contacted the media? It’s actually quite difficult not to answer when someone asks you a question. The natural reaction is to reply, out of politeness if nothing else. And of course the urge to say what I thought about some of their vile and ridiculous insinuations was hard to suppress. On the other hand, I was very weary and at least repeating ‘No comment’ didn’t involve engaging my brain. It certainly speeded up the translation process. With luck it would mean these proceedings wouldn’t drag on any longer than they had to.

Ricardo Paiva played a more prominent role in the interrogation this time, which did nothing to maintain my equilibrium. This was the man who had invited us to his home for dinner. Our children had played with his son. ‘The twins were restless in the UK so you sedated them?’ he was saying. ‘In the UK you were trying to give Madeleine to a family member? You get stressed and frustrated with the kids?’ I knew exactly where this line of questioning was going and, as much as it riled me, I refused to rise to it.

If I’m honest, I’d been quite nervous about seeing the videos of the dogs. I had no idea what to expect, although I was quite sure something couldn’t be quite right about the results they had apparently produced. We knew from Bob Small that the responses of specialist dogs were, or ought to be, classed as intelligence, not evidence, but in my head I’d built up these film clips into the most damning ‘evidence’ imaginable; the ‘I rest my case, Your Honour’ finale. Now Ricardo was giving me his spiel about the dogs. ‘These dogs have a 100 per cent success rate,’ he said, waving an A4 document in front of me. ‘Two hundred cases and they’ve never failed. We have gone to the best laboratory in the world using low-copy DNA techniques.’ His emphasis suggested this was the gold standard. I just stared at him, unable to hide my contempt. What did he know about low-copy DNA? I was so tempted to ask him to elaborate. These dogs had never been used in Portugal before, and he knew little more about them, either, than I did.

Ricardo started the video player. I saw the dogs going into apartment 5A, one at a time, with the handler, PC Martin Grime (then of the South Yorkshire police, later self-employed). Each dog ran around the apartment, jumping over beds, into the wardrobe and generally having a good sniff. At one point, the handler directed the dogs to a spot behind the couch in the sitting room, close to the curtains. He called the dogs over to him to investigate this particular site. The dogs ultimately ‘alerted’. I felt myself starting to relax a little. This was not what I would call an exact science.

In footage of the apartment next door to ours, one of the dogs began to root in the corner of a room near a piece of furniture. PC Grime summoned the dog and they left the flat.

The film show continued. Now we were in an underground garage where eight or so cars were parked, including our rented Renault Scenic. It was hard to miss: the windows were plastered with pictures of Madeleine. In medicine we would call this an ‘unblinded’ study, one that is susceptible to bias. One of the dogs ran straight past our car, nose in the air, heading towards the next vehicle. The handler stopped next to the Renault and called the dog. It obeyed, returning to him, but then ran off again. Staying by the car, PC Grime instructed the dog to come back several times and directed it to certain parts of the vehicle before it eventually supplied an alert by barking."
« Last Edit: June 13, 2014, 01:11:19 PM by Faithlilly »
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?

Offline Eleanor

Re: Kate's refusal on legal advice to answer those 48 questions.
« Reply #176 on: June 13, 2014, 01:20:31 PM »

Have it your own way, whatever that is.  I don't really care.  It didn't work, whatever it was.  The McCanns didn't have to answer anymore questions.

Offline Carana

Re: Kate's refusal on legal advice to answer those 48 questions.
« Reply #177 on: June 13, 2014, 01:22:53 PM »
The questions previously asked and answers given are in Kate's 4th May and 6th September statements and it is those answers she refers the PJ to in her 7th September interview.

Why is that for you to understand ?

Not necessarily. An unusual "informal" interview took place on 8 August (cf pp. 212-214 of madeleine. There's no official record of that.

Then, her description of the arguido interview in which Paiva pauses the dog videos, telling her that blood had been found in the Scenic corresponding to Madeleines's DNA and asks her to explain it.

"These were the only times I didn't respond with a 'no comment". Instead I said I couldn't explain it, but neither could he." (p250)

That's not what the arguido statement says on paper, though, is it? That would seem slightly different, if her account is accurate, from "she couldn't explain any more than she already had", wouldn't it?








Offline Carana

Re: Kate's refusal on legal advice to answer those 48 questions.
« Reply #178 on: June 13, 2014, 01:25:18 PM »
She probably was asked ?  Where ?

I'm sorry but a generic statement from Kate in no way proves your contention. Further even Kate doesn't claim in her book that she was asked certain questions twice, in fact quite the opposite.

So why are you claiming it ?

ETA Passage from Kate's book that deals with her questioning on the 7th of September.


"As anticipated, my interrogation began with João Carlos explaining that my status from this moment on had been changed from witness to arguida. He ran through the rights and obligations this conferred on me. I sat there quietly, trying to compose myself despite the anger bubbling below the surface. They haven’t beenlooking for Madeleine . . . Then they started. What had I seen and heard after entering apartment 5A at 10pm on 3 May 2007? Who called the police? At what time? Who contacted the media? It’s actually quite difficult not to answer when someone asks you a question. The natural reaction is to reply, out of politeness if nothing else. And of course the urge to say what I thought about some of their vile and ridiculous insinuations was hard to suppress. On the other hand, I was very weary and at least repeating ‘No comment’ didn’t involve engaging my brain. It certainly speeded up the translation process. With luck it would mean these proceedings wouldn’t drag on any longer than they had to.

Ricardo Paiva played a more prominent role in the interrogation this time, which did nothing to maintain my equilibrium. This was the man who had invited us to his home for dinner. Our children had played with his son. ‘The twins were restless in the UK so you sedated them?’ he was saying. ‘In the UK you were trying to give Madeleine to a family member? You get stressed and frustrated with the kids?’ I knew exactly where this line of questioning was going and, as much as it riled me, I refused to rise to it.

If I’m honest, I’d been quite nervous about seeing the videos of the dogs. I had no idea what to expect, although I was quite sure something couldn’t be quite right about the results they had apparently produced. We knew from Bob Small that the responses of specialist dogs were, or ought to be, classed as intelligence, not evidence, but in my head I’d built up these film clips into the most damning ‘evidence’ imaginable; the ‘I rest my case, Your Honour’ finale. Now Ricardo was giving me his spiel about the dogs. ‘These dogs have a 100 per cent success rate,’ he said, waving an A4 document in front of me. ‘Two hundred cases and they’ve never failed. We have gone to the best laboratory in the world using low-copy DNA techniques.’ His emphasis suggested this was the gold standard. I just stared at him, unable to hide my contempt. What did he know about low-copy DNA? I was so tempted to ask him to elaborate. These dogs had never been used in Portugal before, and he knew little more about them, either, than I did.

Ricardo started the video player. I saw the dogs going into apartment 5A, one at a time, with the handler, PC Martin Grime (then of the South Yorkshire police, later self-employed). Each dog ran around the apartment, jumping over beds, into the wardrobe and generally having a good sniff. At one point, the handler directed the dogs to a spot behind the couch in the sitting room, close to the curtains. He called the dogs over to him to investigate this particular site. The dogs ultimately ‘alerted’. I felt myself starting to relax a little. This was not what I would call an exact science.

In footage of the apartment next door to ours, one of the dogs began to root in the corner of a room near a piece of furniture. PC Grime summoned the dog and they left the flat.

The film show continued. Now we were in an underground garage where eight or so cars were parked, including our rented Renault Scenic. It was hard to miss: the windows were plastered with pictures of Madeleine. In medicine we would call this an ‘unblinded’ study, one that is susceptible to bias. One of the dogs ran straight past our car, nose in the air, heading towards the next vehicle. The handler stopped next to the Renault and called the dog. It obeyed, returning to him, but then ran off again. Staying by the car, PC Grime instructed the dog to come back several times and directed it to certain parts of the vehicle before it eventually supplied an alert by barking."

Thanks, for that. If you have the Kindle version, would you mind posting the next paragraph as well, please. I have the paper version.

Offline faithlilly

Re: Kate's refusal on legal advice to answer those 48 questions.
« Reply #179 on: June 13, 2014, 01:44:35 PM »
Thanks, for that. If you have the Kindle version, would you mind posting the next paragraph as well, please. I have the paper version.

"
Each time a dog gave a signal, Ricardo would pause the video and inform me that blood had been found in this site and that the DNA from the sample matched Madeleine’s. He would stare at me intently and ask me to explain this. These were the only times I didn’t respond with a ‘No comment.’ Instead I said I couldn’t explain it, but neither could he. I remember feeling such disdain for Ricardo at this point. What was he doing? I thought. Just following orders? Under my breath, I found myself whispering, ‘f..king tosser, f..king tosser.’ This quiet chant somehow kept me strong, kept me in control. This man did not deserve my respect. ‘f..king tosser . . .’

When researching the validity of sniffer-dog evidence later that month, Gerry would discover that false alerts can be attributable to the conscious or unconscious signals of the handler. From what I saw of the dogs’ responses, this certainly seemed to me to be what was happening here. We would later learn that in his written report, PC Grime had emphasized that such alerts cannot be relied upon without corroborating evidence."
Brietta posted on 10/04/2022 “But whether or not that is the reason behind the delay I am certain that Brueckner's trial is going to take place.”

Let’s count the months, shall we?