So what's next in the libel trial saga?

[Carana]

Oh tbh I've scan read the last 10 pages as it seemed like the usual back and forth. So 'innocent' it is then. Or unless someone disagrees!

Edit: had a proper read back. Interesting question the judge asks. :) Let me do some straw clutching - maybe they are innocent in the eyes of the law as their arguido status was lifted, but have not necessarily been eliminated from the police investigation. Obviously what we would all like to know is have the parents been eliminated from the SY & PJ investigation. There is a distinction from not suspects to eliminated. Innocent = eliminated imo, so perhaps we have our answer.. Hope to see some conclusion reached soon in the trial.

I did reply to your post, with quotes and links, but it seems it got whooshed in the midst of OT comments being deleted.

To summarise, the McCanns are not suspects in either the UK or the PT investigations, both of which were opened following a lengthy review.

For some, that means that there is a massive multinational conspiracy / whitewhash; for others, it means that any doubts about the McCanns / clarification needed was sorted out at an early stage.

Both investigations were opened based on new lines of enquiry / leads which hadn't been adequately pursued.

[slartibartfast]

Dave, do you understand the principles of hypothesis testing in court systems ?

Good question.

[Mr Gray]

Good question.

what is good about it....the point I am making is that a court doesn't find a  defendant innocent

[Jean-Pierre]

Dave, do you understand the principles of hypothesis testing in court systems ?

The problem is that using criminal trials as an example of hypothesis testing is misleading.  So therefore your question does not make sense.  Sorry. 

[lordpookles]

I did reply to your post, with quotes and links, but it seems it got whooshed in the midst of OT comments being deleted.

To summarise, the McCanns are not suspects in either the UK or the PT investigations, both of which were opened following a lengthy review.

For some, that means that there is a massive multinational conspiracy / whitewhash; for others, it means that any doubts about the McCanns / clarification needed was sorted out at an early stage.

Both investigations were opened based on new lines of enquiry / leads which hadn't been adequately pursued.

Yeah. It's hard to say whether they have been eliminated or they are not suspects at this time because the investigation is following more probable leads. Maybe they have new evidence that makes this undoubtedly so or simply analysed the scene, plus interviewed again all involved and that was the conclusion. Putting yourself in the shoes of the investigating forces for a moment and the situation becomes confused imo because there is a high probability this is exactly what they would also say if they were suspects in this scenario. Or is that in doubt? What would SY and PJ say if they were still suspects given the situation around this case? Do they always tell the truth to the public and their suspects? I have not read/seen anything regarding the PJ stance, so be interesting to read that.

[Carana]

Yeah. It's hard to say whether they have been eliminated or they are not suspects at this time because the investigation is following more probable leads. Maybe they have new evidence that makes this undoubtedly so or simply analysed the scene, plus interviewed again all involved and that was the conclusion. Putting yourself in the shoes of the investigating forces for a moment and the situation becomes confused imo because there is a high probability this is exactly what they would also say if they were suspects in this scenario. Or is that in doubt? What would SY and PJ say if they were still suspects given the situation around this case? Do they always tell the truth to the public and their suspects? I have not read/seen anything regarding the PJ stance, so be interesting to read that.

The Judiciary Police (PJ) reopened the investigation concerning the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and they guarantee that this time the parents of the girl who disappeared in Praia da Luz, Algarve, days before her fourth birthday, on May 3, 2007, are not suspects.

    
(DN: PJ creates new team to investigate the Maddie case, 25 October 2013)
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id466.html

[ferryman]

The Judiciary Police (PJ) reopened the investigation concerning the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and they guarantee that this time the parents of the girl who disappeared in Praia da Luz, Algarve, days before her fourth birthday, on May 3, 2007, are not suspects.

    
(DN: PJ creates new team to investigate the Maddie case, 25 October 2013)
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id466.html

Yes, there is no doubt that the PJ (extant officers) are fully convinced that the shelved enquiry established the innocence of the McCanns ...

[Angelo222]

The Judiciary Police (PJ) reopened the investigation concerning the disappearance of Madeleine McCann and they guarantee that this time the parents of the girl who disappeared in Praia da Luz, Algarve, days before her fourth birthday, on May 3, 2007, are not suspects.

    
(DN: PJ creates new team to investigate the Maddie case, 25 October 2013)
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id466.html

A comment by a reporter hardly qualifies as a statement of intent by the Portuguese police but then if that is all you can provide to prove the McCanns are no longer suspects then please do carry on.

[Angelo222]

Yes, there is no doubt that the PJ (extant officers) are fully convinced that the shelved enquiry established the innocence of the McCanns ...

Total bollocks.           The truth as well you know it is that the shelved enquiry was inconclusive.  The Attorney General stated most eloquently that the parents had lost the opportunity to establish their innocence by THEIR OWN ACTIONS.

[Mr Gray]

Total bollocks.           The truth as well you know it is that the shelved enquiry was inconclusive.  The Attorney General stated most eloquently that the parents had lost the opportunity to establish their innocence by THEIR OWN ACTIONS.

Quite simply if in Portugal you are expected to prove innocence then Portugal has no place in a civilised society

[Angelo222]

Quite simply if in Portugal you are expected to prove innocence then Portugal has no place in a civilised society

We've been here before Davie, not prove, establish.

[Mr Gray]

We've been here before Davie, not prove, establish.

certainly not prove ...as I pointed out  the incorrect translation....prior to that posters were claiming the McCanns should prove their innocence.

It is not up to the McCanns to establish their innocence...it's just that the Portuguese did such a piss poor job....they have to try and blame someone for their failure

[John]

The learned judge appears to have a very clear understanding of exactly what the situation is in regard to the legal status of Madeleine's parents.

I think this may well be reflected in the judgement she will make.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The judge (Maria Emília de Melo e Castro) is now asking Emma Loach questions

MC - How did the book hamper the investigation?
EL - says that if everybody thought Madeleine had died then nobody would look for her. If people thought the parents were involved, they wouldn’t help.

MC - But when the book was published the McCanns were no longer arguidos.
EL - says the public, according to the US, is very important to find missing children.

MC - If some people suspect, from where is their conviction formed?
EL - says it is mainly through the internet. GA's book is the first thing that appears on internet. The
people don't know these allegations aren't true according to the criminal investigation.

MC - People don't know?
EL - hesitates, she says the majority don't.

MC - Are the McCanns ashamed of what is said in the book?
EL - answers yes.

MC - Why?
EL - says the public believes they had covered up and then asked for money to search for Madeleine.

MC - The fact they are innocent didn't suppress this feeling?
EL - says the fact they are innocent necessitates they must find Madeleine. They were more ashamed to be arguidos than because of what the book says.
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id454.html

A judge cannot make a statement of fact during evidence gathering thus her comment highlighted above should have read...
MC- Knowing they are innocent didn't suppress this feeling?

[Montclair]

A judge cannot make a statement of fact during evidence gathering thus her comment highlighted above should have read...
MC- Knowing they are innocent didn't suppress this feeling?

Thank you for the clarification.

[Alfred R Jones]

A judge cannot make a statement of fact during evidence gathering thus her comment highlighted above should have read...
MC- Knowing they are innocent didn't suppress this feeling?

The judge makes a statement of fact further up that quote.  What should she have said instead of "but when the book was published they were no longer arguidos" then?