Mark Warner Holidays and Ocean Club Resorts had a duty of care towards their guests.

[jassi]

It's the police who need proof of a crime and so far they are not doing too well.

[stephen25000]

Well here is another view of Mark Warner Holidays.


'

1.Mark Warner provided a free evening creche -

the McCanns chose not to use it.

2.Mark Warner provided a babysitting service by fully qualified staff at a nominal fee -

 the McCann's chose not to use it

3.Mark Warner provided a takeaway service from the tapas restaurant -

 the McCann's chose not to use it.

4.Mark warner provided self-catering accomodation for those preferring to stay home and cater for themselves -

the McCann's chose not to use it.

5.Mark Warner provided accommodation which had locks to all doors and windows -

 the McCann's chose to leave a door unlocked and never checked the windows.

6.Mark Warner did not provide a 'listening service' as they felt the layout of the resort made this an unsafe and unsuitable option -

 the McCann's not only decided to operate their own version, they also asked for a discount because of it.

7.The McCann's blamed Mark Warner for supposedly leaving a book containing their request for a table every night to facilitate the neglect of their children at a reception desk where it might be read by others -

yet freely informed complete strangers that they had left their children home alone while they were out dining.

8.The McCann supporters say Mark Warner should have warned them about attacks on other children -

 yet most of these attacks were not reported at the time and were not in PdL. Regardless, the McCanns had decided to operate their own, unsafe listening system before they even left the UK and without ascertaining whether the area was safe, or knowing the location of their accommodation.

9.Mark Warner only made one mistake - failing to immediately alert social services when they became aware of what the McCanns were doing. However, they could hardly be expected to know the McCanns were leaving a door open. They provided the McCanns and their hangers-on with thousands of pounds of free accommodation and thousands of pounds of free childcare. They engaged expert help for them and immediately flew out counsellors to work with the couple. '

Comments welcome.

[carlymichelle]

Well here is another view of Mark Warner Holidays.


'

1.Mark Warner provided a free evening creche -

the McCanns chose not to use it.

2.Mark Warner provided a babysitting service by fully qualified staff at a nominal fee -

 the McCann's chose not to use it

3.Mark Warner provided a takeaway service from the tapas restaurant -

 the McCann's chose not to use it.

4.Mark warner provided self-catering accomodation for those preferring to stay home and cater for themselves -

the McCann's chose not to use it.

5.Mark Warner provided accommodation which had locks to all doors and windows -

 the McCann's chose to leave a door unlocked and never checked the windows.

6.Mark Warner did not provide a 'listening service' as they felt the layout of the resort made this an unsafe and unsuitable option -

 the McCann's not only decided to operate their own version, they also asked for a discount because of it.

7.The McCann's blamed Mark Warner for supposedly leaving a book containing their request for a table every night to facilitate the neglect of their children at a reception desk where it might be read by others -

yet freely informed complete strangers that they had left their children home alone while they were out dining.

8.The McCann supporters say Mark Warner should have warned them about attacks on other children -

 yet most of these attacks were not reported at the time and were not in PdL. Regardless, the McCanns had decided to operate their own, unsafe listening system before they even left the UK and without ascertaining whether the area was safe, or knowing the location of their accommodation.

9.Mark Warner only made one mistake - failing to immediately alert social services when they became aware of what the McCanns were doing. However, they could hardly be expected to know the McCanns were leaving a door open. They provided the McCanns and their hangers-on with thousands of pounds of free accommodation and thousands of pounds of free childcare. They engaged expert help for them and immediately flew out counsellors to work with the couple. '

Comments welcome.

  all they clearly  wanted was me   time    getting into their  friends

[slartibartfast]

Well here is another view of Mark Warner Holidays.


'

1.Mark Warner provided a free evening creche -

the McCanns chose not to use it.

2.Mark Warner provided a babysitting service by fully qualified staff at a nominal fee -

 the McCann's chose not to use it

3.Mark Warner provided a takeaway service from the tapas restaurant -

 the McCann's chose not to use it.

4.Mark warner provided self-catering accomodation for those preferring to stay home and cater for themselves -

the McCann's chose not to use it.

5.Mark Warner provided accommodation which had locks to all doors and windows -

 the McCann's chose to leave a door unlocked and never checked the windows.

6.Mark Warner did not provide a 'listening service' as they felt the layout of the resort made this an unsafe and unsuitable option -

 the McCann's not only decided to operate their own version, they also asked for a discount because of it.

7.The McCann's blamed Mark Warner for supposedly leaving a book containing their request for a table every night to facilitate the neglect of their children at a reception desk where it might be read by others -

yet freely informed complete strangers that they had left their children home alone while they were out dining.

8.The McCann supporters say Mark Warner should have warned them about attacks on other children -

 yet most of these attacks were not reported at the time and were not in PdL. Regardless, the McCanns had decided to operate their own, unsafe listening system before they even left the UK and without ascertaining whether the area was safe, or knowing the location of their accommodation.

9.Mark Warner only made one mistake - failing to immediately alert social services when they became aware of what the McCanns were doing. However, they could hardly be expected to know the McCanns were leaving a door open. They provided the McCanns and their hangers-on with thousands of pounds of free accommodation and thousands of pounds of free childcare. They engaged expert help for them and immediately flew out counsellors to work with the couple. '

Comments welcome.

Very much to the point.

[stephen25000]

There is but you don't understand

Any answers to the points made on Mark Warner's dave ???

[misty]

I totally agree that, in hindsight, they made some bad choices.
The lack of evening child-care was not something they had anticipated, and £40-£50 per night for a sitter adds a lot to the cost of a holiday. The night creche was not a practical option.
I'm also not sure if they were aware of the take-away option from the Tapas Bar.
Mark Warner could not be held legally liable for what happened to the McCanns IMO because of the "reasonable care" aspect. You should exercise the same degree of care & responsibility, if not more, abroad as at home, , irrespective of how safe a place seems. ( April Jones & the Soham girls met their fates in sleepy villages)
It does seem, however, to be quite difficult for new parents to immediately achieve a balanced sense of responsibility. People who have spent years at university & then in a controlled enviroment, such as a hospital, acquire a different set of life skills to the nightclub bouncer or policeman, and assess risk in a different manner.
I do not condone what the group did on that holiday - it was all very adult-orientated = but would point out that the practice of "child listening" is NOT illegal & is still offered by many resorts including some in the UK.
 We all make bad choices - but most are not as catastrophic as Gerry & Kate's.

[Miss Taken Identity]

quote Well here is another view of Mark Warner Holidays.


'

1.Mark Warner provided a free evening creche -

the McCanns chose not to use it.

2.Mark Warner provided a babysitting service by fully qualified staff at a nominal fee -

 the McCann's chose not to use it

3.Mark Warner provided a takeaway service from the tapas restaurant -

 the McCann's chose not to use it.

4.Mark warner provided self-catering accomodation for those preferring to stay home and cater for themselves -

the McCann's chose not to use it.

5.Mark Warner provided accommodation which had locks to all doors and windows -

 the McCann's chose to leave a door unlocked and never checked the windows.

6.Mark Warner did not provide a 'listening service' as they felt the layout of the resort made this an unsafe and unsuitable option -

 the McCann's not only decided to operate their own version, they also asked for a discount because of it.

7.The McCann's blamed Mark Warner for supposedly leaving a book containing their request for a table every night to facilitate the neglect of their children at a reception desk where it might be read by others -

yet freely informed complete strangers that they had left their children home alone while they were out dining.

8.The McCann supporters say Mark Warner should have warned them about attacks on other children -

 yet most of these attacks were not reported at the time and were not in PdL. Regardless, the McCanns had decided to operate their own, unsafe listening system before they even left the UK and without ascertaining whether the area was safe, or knowing the location of their accommodation.

9.Mark Warner only made one mistake - failing to immediately alert social services when they became aware of what the McCanns were doing. However, they could hardly be expected to know the McCanns were leaving a door open. They provided the McCanns and their hangers-on with thousands of pounds of free accommodation and thousands of pounds of free childcare. They engaged expert help for them and immediately flew out counsellors to work with the couple. 'Unquote

Comments welcome.


Excellent post Stephen thank you.

quote I totally agree that, in hindsight, they made some bad choices.
The lack of evening child-care was not something they had anticipated, and £40-£50 per night for a sitter adds a lot to the cost of a holiday. The night creche was not a practical option.
I'm also not sure if they were aware of the take-away option from the Tapas Bar.
Mark Warner could not be held legally liable for what happened to the McCanns IMO because of the "reasonable care" aspect. You should exercise the same degree of care & responsibility, if not more, abroad as at home, , irrespective of how safe a place seems. ( April Jones & the Soham girls met their fates in sleepy villages)
It does seem, however, to be quite difficult for new parents to immediately achieve a balanced sense of responsibility. People who have spent years at university & then in a controlled enviroment, such as a hospital, acquire a different set of life skills to the nightclub bouncer or policeman, and assess risk in a different manner.
I do not condone what the group did on that holiday - it was all very adult-orientated = but would point out that the practice of "child listening" is NOT illegal & is still offered by many resorts including some in the UK.
 We all make bad choices - but most are not as catastrophic as Gerry & Kate's.unquote

Excellent reply.

This is WHAT a difference of opinion post should look like.

Those who troll here do not have a reply. just the usual...

[LagosBen]

I haven't read this whole thread   (soz)....

To me the holiday company SHOULD have issued guests with a warning regarding breakins and attempted breakins. If they had I doubt that anyone would  have used Baby monitors or checking systems.
 

[pegasus]

Anyone know cost of holiday plz?

[pegasus]

"Mark Warner had also advertised that they were going to discount the holiday by ten percent not long after we booked , which slightly irritated me, given the fact that we booked it ... so I’d had correspondence probably being a bit cheeky just to say ... you can knock us ten percent off as well ... they gave us some discount"
Source: http://www.mccannfiles.com/id251.html

Wouldn't that discount have easily completely covered the cost (at 15 euros/hour) of in-apartment child-sitting by nannies, for every night of the holiday?

[Mr Gray]

"Mark Warner had also advertised that they were going to discount the holiday by ten percent not long after we booked , which slightly irritated me, given the fact that we booked it ... so I’d had correspondence probably being a bit cheeky just to say ... you can knock us ten percent off as well ... they gave us some discount"
Source: http://www.mccannfiles.com/id251.html

Wouldn't that discount have easily completely covered the cost (at 15 euros/hour) of in-apartment child-sitting by nannies, for every night of the holiday?

perhaps its not as simple as posters think....in 50 years of butlins style baby listening..not one serious incident reported...

in 50 years how many children have been seriously assaulted and even died in registered nurseries

[pegasus]

perhaps its not as simple as posters think....in 50 years of butlins style baby listening..not one serious incident reported...

in 50 years how many children have been seriously assaulted and even died in registered nurseries

Are you proposing that spending just a part of that discount, on in-apartment child-sitting by nannies they already knew and trusted, would have increased the risk to the children?

[Mr Gray]

Are you proposing that spending just a part of that discount, on in-apartment child-sitting by nannies they already knew and trusted, would have increased the risk to the children?

absolutely..

[sadie]

Are you proposing that spending just a part of that discount, on in-apartment child-sitting by nannies they already knew and trusted, would have increased the risk to the children?

We do NOT know for certain, just who would be doing the sitting.  I personally would never have trusted a stranger on their own with my children.

[Martina]

absolutely..

Ok, let's sum it up.

Free nanny during the day - absolutely safe.
The same nanny, but paid, and during the evening - OMG! OMG Danger!!!

Mindblowingly logical.