Mark Warner Holidays and Ocean Club Resorts had a duty of care towards their guests.

[jassi]

I don't really know. I believe that the parent child relationship needs to be close with a lot of shared time.

Which you don't get if you dump them in creches all day and then leave then in the evening.

[slartibartfast]

Or be short of volunteers and extra pairs of hands to help carry the children back from the night crèche, should you have more than 2 children.

It all depends how close the group is.

[pegasus]

If you work out where that photo was taken from...it has been taken with a very wide angle lens, that's why it has so much of the patio in the photo....this will have multiplied the apparent distance to the Tapas

Good point. - wideangle lens. But have you ever measured the crow-flies distance from the restaurant table to the children's bedroom?

[pegasus]

Your attention to detail is extraordinary, pegasus.

Thankyou, but it is others who deserve the credit, especially JdA for the G606 photo, which provided the full text of the G5A safety sticker.

[sadie]

Thanks pegasus.  The bottom photo (Foto16) is an excellent example of not what can be seen in the dark but what cannot be seen, shrubs or no shrubs.  Any toddler coming out onto that balcony and being faced with that view would just scream DADDY!

IF , and I do NOT believe she came out, but IF then tyhe first thing that she would hear would be her Daddys voice and she would yell him back and climb up onto the about 10" base of the railings.

As you well know John, you cannot trust a night photograph to give a definitely sound picture of how bright the lights in the Tapas restaurant would be.



BUT they would be a damned sight brighter than those shown in that picture.

[John]

Hear her daddy's voice above the ruckus of an enclosed tapas restaurant on a windy night?  Don't think so somehow Sadie.

I will agree though that she never came out the patio door otherwise Kate would have found it slightly open.

[Brietta]

Hear her daddy's voice above the ruckus of an enclosed tapas restaurant on a windy night?  Don't think so somehow Sadie.

I will agree though that she never came out the patio door otherwise Kate would have found it slightly open.

I think it is the one thing almost everyone agrees on, even Dr Amaral. 

Logic dictates that as she did not exit the building through the only egress she might have been capable of opening on her own, a person unknown either carried or walked her out.

Which brings us back to burglaries via the open window which was already known to the holiday company; or the front door the keys of which we now know to have been misappropriated at the time Madeleine was abducted.

Both are circumstances which the Drs McCann could not be expected to know anything about.

[LagosBen]

I think it is the one thing almost everyone agrees on, even Dr Amaral. 

Logic dictates that as she did not exit the building through the only egress she might have been capable of opening on her own, a person unknown either carried or walked her out.

Which brings us back to burglaries via the open window which was already known to the holiday company; or the front door the keys of which we now know to have been misappropriated at the time Madeleine was abducted.

Both are circumstances which the Drs McCann could not be expected to know anything about.

They also wouldn't (like most guests) have known about recent local burglaries and attempted  ones. Shocking imo that MW/OC did not issue guests with a warning.....

On the other hand maybe they knew that locking the doors wouldn't actually help prevent breakins... >@@(*&)

[stephen25000]

They also wouldn't (like most guests) have known about recent local burglaries and attempted  ones. Shocking imo that MW/OC did not issue guests with a warning.....

On the other hand maybe they knew that locking the doors wouldn't actually help prevent breakins... >@@(*&)

This has been dealt with thoroughly already.

The mccanns had the opportunity to take the facilities offered by the  Mark Warner company.

THEY DIDN'T.

[LagosBen]

This has been dealt with thoroughly already.

The mccanns had the opportunity to take the facilities offered by the  Mark Warner company.

THEY DIDN'T.

And I suspect many others didn't either.

There is no excuse for the companies not warning guests. Had they done so I doubt that any guest would have used baby monitors or checks on their sleeping children.

[pegasus]

IF , and I do NOT believe she came out, but IF then tyhe first thing that she would hear would be her Daddys voice and she would yell him back and climb up onto the about 10" base of the railings. ...

Yes in this photo taken in the early hours of the 4th, we can see that a small child wishing to gain a better view of the restaurant table, might gain a good increase in height by standing on the wall at the base of the railings. I have not measured this wall yet but I guess it may be about 300mm? A further approx 50mm could be gained by standing on the lower horizontal metal rail of the railings just above the wall - zoom in to see this. (Source: Vol 1 Page 21)

[sadie]

Yes in this photo taken in the early hours of the 4th, we can see that a small child wishing to gain a better view of the restaurant table, might gain a good increase in height by standing on the wall at the base of the railings. I have not measured this wall yet but I guess it may be about 300mm? A further approx 50mm could be gained by standing on the lower horizontal metal rail of the railings just above the wall - zoom in to see this. (Source: Vol 1 Page 21)

I get what you are saying, but did you realise that is the wrong railing?  The railing you show is not immediately outside the sitting room  patio windows but outside the patio windows to Kate and Gerrys bedroom. 

Madeleine would have gone straight to the closest railing and not that one imo.


Anyway, I really do not think that Madeleine came out via the patio doors.

Btw, do you have a definite answer to this.   Are you technical, Pegasus?   Is the sitting room patio door top hung or bottom supported.?    Please. 

[slartibartfast]

They also wouldn't (like most guests) have known about recent local burglaries and attempted  ones. Shocking imo that MW/OC did not issue guests with a warning.....

On the other hand maybe they knew that locking the doors wouldn't actually help prevent breakins... >@@(*&)

Are you suggesting that MW were aware of spare keys in the hands of criminals and did nothing about it?

[Freya]

If you work out where that photo was taken from...it has been taken with a very wide angle lens, that's why it has so much of the patio in the photo....this will have multiplied the apparent distance to the Tapas

I know you are right. No way was it that far away as shown in the photograph. I could hear the kids shouting over to their parents in who were in the pool a few apartments up from 5a....and looking at this photo there is no way you could hear....the wide angle lens makes it look a hell of a lot further.

[Freya]

They also wouldn't (like most guests) have known about recent local burglaries and attempted  ones. Shocking imo that MW/OC did not issue guests with a warning.....

On the other hand maybe they knew that locking the doors wouldn't actually help prevent breakins... >@@(*&)

They were told to keep it quiet