Mark Warner Holidays and Ocean Club Resorts had a duty of care towards their guests.

[stephen25000]

So we are clear, you are accusing MW/OC of having a deliberate policy of hiding facts about serious incidents from customers?

Indeed.

This issue has been dealt with thoroughly.

The mccanns didn't take up many of the facilities on offer, including of course a babysitter.

One of many mistakes.

[Freya]

You are actually wrong there.

In Kate McCanns first statement on the 4th of May she says she went in through the patio doors which were unlocked.  The shutters and 'whooshing' story as you call it was not thrown out.

I believe the McCann's said they believe they could have been observed for days.   This is very likely.   Don't know why you have the attitude that it was not possible.

Have you ever wondered that due to the McCann's being observed over a couple of days, knowing the McCann's were using that entrance to check on the children,    entering through the patio doors could have been too risky?     They used a key to open the front door instead?   This door was shrouded in darkness,  and so they would be less likely to be caught.

I agree with part of that. I would say the patio doors weren't tried because that door could be seen from the tapas. That simple, why would anyone risk using it when the front door is hidden away.

[Freya]

So we are clear, you are accusing MW/OC of having a deliberate policy of hiding facts about serious incidents from customers?

What do you define as policy? I would think that meant a document that states as much wouldn't you? I would never have seen anything like that being a guest would I?

Ive made it very clear....it was something I was told about. A member of staff....nothing official.

It is interesting though isn't it? BBC were contemplating the same things you are....they considered a documentary about this. WHy it never went ahead I don't know.

[Freya]

Indeed.

This issue has been dealt with thoroughly.

The mccanns didn't take up many of the facilities on offer, including of course a babysitter.

One of many mistakes.

Stephen, why the comment? that has nothing to do with the question in hand really does it. You seem to have drifted a little.

[sadie]

They have never said that was the case with certainty have they? that's what they were assuming may have happened. But Im sure you are aware of that anyway. Personally, I think it wasn't really planned that well. I think they didn't even try the back door. They went in through the front door, shutters used as look out and left through front door. Key used.

I think it was planned and watched, but otherwise I agree completely.

In and out via the dark, recessed front door that no-one ever walked past because it was the end of the pathway and led nowhere else.  The front door was completely out of sight to anyone coming and going to the other flats.
The window was opened for other reasons well discussed previously.

[pegasus]

1.  Well I am pretty sure that I have seen contemporary photos without them.  I think Ip posted them on here.Maybe OC quickly went in and stuck them there to cover their omission? ...

Photograph showing the "Before Stepping Out" balcony safety sticker at about 2AM on 4th May


BTW all this blaming the holiday company stuff can I think be traced back to rubbish spouted by some of the so-called legal experts who flew out in the first few days. IMO the group as a whole would had been far better off if they had ignored that legalese denial rubbish and just been honest about it.

[John]

I think the following may be proof that little time is required to raise the shutter of the apartment; any subsequent noise either being ignored or unheard; and the person/s carrying out the procedure being able to do so unobserved.

 - Snipped -

- Back at 5A of the Ocean Club, on 26 September someone forced up the external blinds of the front bedroom to an oblique angle. There appeared to be no attempt to force open the window. The security guard stated between 21:00 and 21:05 he had done the 'rounds' of the block, then walked down to the supermarket and back again whereupon he found the damage which he called in immediately.

- He and a colleague from the same security detail had conversed shortly before 21:00 noting that neither had seen any strangers other than two Canadian television journalists, a man and a woman, who had been seen at a nearby bar.

- Given the limited damage and that there had been many people at that location [presumably during the previous days and all authorised] there was no attempt to retrieve fingerprints, but inquiries were made of TV crews and journalists in and around Luz and Lagos, without result.
Processos Vol XI Pages 2945 – 2952
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DCCB_LETTER.htm

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1868.msg174012#msg174012



I lifted the above quote from another thread which would appear to indicate that Ocean Club felt it necessary to employ security guards after the alleged abduction of Madeleine McCann.  It rather beggars the question, were they trying to prevent another alleged abduction or trying to stop media persons from breaking in?

[Alice Purjorick]

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1868.msg174012#msg174012



I lifted the above quote from another thread which would appear to indicate that Ocean Club felt it necessary to employ security guards after the alleged abduction of Madeleine McCann.  It rather beggars the question, were they trying to prevent another alleged abduction or trying to stop media persons from breaking in?

A good point sir; may I propose however that whatever OC/Mark Warner did it was at the suggestion of Control Risks Group?

[DCI]

www.miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=1868.msg174012#msg174012

I lifted the above quote from another thread which would appear to indicate that Ocean Club felt it necessary to employ security guards after the alleged abduction of Madeleine McCann.  It rather beggars the question, were they trying to prevent another alleged abduction or trying to stop media persons from breaking in?

Seems they weren't the only one's trying to get in John.

- On 20 September, two men and a women, claiming to be from "Sky News", attempted to force open the external blinds of the front bedroom of apartment 5A and were asked to leave the area; on 25 September a three Spanish persons - again two men and a woman - were found with cameras on the patio balcony of apartment 5B. Having no identification, but being in possession of film equipment, they were believed to be journalists.
- Cleaning staff in Ocean Club were persistently accosted by journalists, often with offers of money, to provide access to apartment 5A. They were always refused but the personal particulars of the pests were not noted.

[pathfinder73]

The director of the Ocean Club's technical services, Silvia Batista, confirmed that on the same night Madeleine disappeared, she in person offered them the babysitting service, because the hotel is responsible for its guests, but they rejected her offer.

"We had no guilt in the disappearance of the small, could not say who was at fault, but ours did not," said the director, noting that "the parents of the girl that night were very careless," why would not have asked for babysitting.

http://www.terra.com.pe/noticias/articulo/html/act934149.htm

I don't know if that report is true or not.

[Eleanor]

The director of the Ocean Club's technical services, Silvia Batista, confirmed that on the same night Madeleine disappeared, she in person offered them the babysitting service, because the hotel is responsible for its guests, but they rejected her offer.

"We had no guilt in the disappearance of the small, could not say who was at fault, but ours did not," said the director, noting that "the parents of the girl that night were very careless," why would not have asked for babysitting.

http://www.terra.com.pe/noticias/articulo/html/act934149.htm

Sorry.  I am going to need a bit more than that to believe this apparent statement.

[pathfinder73]

Sorry.  I am going to need a bit more than that to believe this apparent statement.

I don't know if it's true that's why I've provided the article link

[Eleanor]

I don't know if it's true that's why I've provided the article link

This was first mooted with regard to Chaplin's.  We now know that The McCanns never went to Chaplin's.

Apart from that, The Ocean Club had no reason for approaching The McCanns with such an offer.

But please don't think I am blaming you.  It is probably worth discussing, even if only for a translation.

[Anna]

This was first mooted with regard to Chaplin's.  We now know that The McCanns never went to Chaplin's.

Apart from that, The Ocean Club had no reason for approaching The McCanns with such an offer.

But please don't think I am blaming you.  It is probably worth discussing, even if only for a translation.

According to the director of housing, "every month there are records of theft in the place, so that the service of a nanny is advised" but even knowing this, Maddie's parents did not accept it.
http://www.terra.com.pe/noticias/articulo/html/act934149.htm

If this was true it would have been in the major press headlines here and PT and in her statement to the police.
I was under the impression that very few people new of these frequent thefts including many of the OC staff, so how would the McCanns and friends know. It should have been on a warning printouts in the apartment and their public buildings. I think it should also have been included in the paperwork given to holidaymakers when they arrived…………..Was it?

[Eleanor]

Thanks, Anna.  So what she was saying is that babysitters were available at a price, but The McCanns chose not to use one.

But I don't think any of the holiday makers were advised of burglaries.