Author Topic: Mark Warner Holidays and Ocean Club Resorts had a duty of care towards their guests.  (Read 125282 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Mr Gray

http://butlins.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/810/kw/Listening%20service

I am fairly that Butlins didn't want to meet the legal requirements of the act (see section X).

as I have said already...the post says that the act outlawed baby listening...as this service is alive and well at hotels then I don't accept that. What I have said is that during Butlins  babylistening and hotel babylistening .....not one child has come to serious harm

Offline Alice Purjorick

Yes it was, crow flies. 

Well about 50 metres, which is a midgen further.

I think that most people on this forum now accept that.

Crow flies is the important measurement for hearing sounds and visual things




If you dont believe it, try using Google Earth to check the distance.

IIRC, walking was about 78 metres to the patio doors from where the Tapas group sat in the restaurant.


NOT 150 or 230 metres as was falsely put about early on.  That was Propaganda of the worst type :rolls eyes: and created many Mccann damaging myths.

This of course is true, however you fail to mention the important influence that physical obstructions and ambient sound will have.
At 50 metres over water with no other ambient interference conversations may be heard clear as a bell.
50 metres away whilst sitting in a busy restaurant ? Like in your back garden?

« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 02:25:02 AM by John »
"Navigating the difference between weird but normal grief and truly suspicious behaviour is the key for any detective worth his salt.". ….Sarah Bailey

Offline pathfinder73

I agree with you, the distance of only 50 metres is completely relevant. 



But Stephen, don't kid yourself, they were in what was effectively their back garden and only about 50 metres away. 

Uniquely amongst the Tapas group, their apartment was well illuminated at the back by the street lamp immediately opposite.

They had a good view of it.

Kate never she had her back to it. Nobody was watching it. The crying incident wouldn't have crossed her mind again she said to Sandra in that interview. That's BS when she's talking about it at the table and leaving them in an unlocked apartment. Not looking to check the children before closing the bedroom door. Their actions are so abnormal that it can't be believed.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 09:24:24 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline sadie

Kate never she had her back to it. Nobody was watching it.
The group were friends, they were watching for each other

As friends do



Anyway, almost without doubt, entrance and exit were thru the front door, which was deeply recessed, in the dark and completely out of view from anyone.  It was at a dead end, so no-one passed by

Oh and I think I read that the outside 'porch' light was broken

Offline lordpookles

It was dumb. Leaving your kids 50 metres away as the crow flies which is incidentally over 160 feet away. You know there are certain journeys by car that as the crow flies do not sound far away at all, but to get there your journey is fact doubled even tripled. Fact is there is a body of water in the way. Anyway, regardless they did not have clear line of sight and they would not be able to hear anything from there. Also, if you are talking about an abduction scenario and considering Madeleine is missing it was indeed careless as someone popped in there unseen and snatched a child!


Offline pathfinder73

The group were friends, they were watching for each other

As friends do



Anyway, almost without doubt, entrance and exit were thru the front door, which was deeply recessed, in the dark and completely out of view from anyone.  It was at a dead end, so no-one passed by

Oh and I think I read that the outside 'porch' light was broken

Only you can be that naive. She was worried at the table but her actions tell a different story. If she was worried it would be locked and she definitely would be facing it and not relying on others.
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline sadie

Only you can be that naive. She was worried at the table but her actions tell a different story. If she was worried it would be locked and she definitely would be facing it and not relying on others.
Maybe they took turns to rotate around the table?  We dont know

We used to be members of a group that met regularly for dinner at each others houses.  At some of these dinners we were required to change places every course ... to chat with a variety of friends

Seems this group didn't change between courses, but they may have taken different seata each night they were there.  We just dont know



BUT, whichever, friends would immediately inform Kate and Gerry at any unexpeted movement on the steps up or by their patio windows.  They had a good view.

Offline lordpookles

Wasn't a clear view according to the Channel 4 dispatches documentary.

From 12:10 onwards:


Offline pegasus

The child bedroom was completely invisible and out of earshot, indisputably.   

Offline lordpookles

Anyway, I guess the McCanns were not guilty of negligence else they would have been tried. Ethically speaking: many from what I've read don't find this ok. If i was to do this and sure everyone makes slip ups I would definitely think I was doing something which was not cool. Also, The McCanns are in something of a bind when they are questioned and i'm purely guessing, but saying too much could have open them up to possible criminal negligence proceedings. They must have been concerned about this at least I imagine in the early days...

The stolen key in the front door seems possible. Don't know that theory but seeing as resort employees may know the McCanns leave their children alone at the apartments at night some opportunist could steal a key i suppose.. but there was no stolen key I'm guess so that makes it a bit redundant...

Offline TitoMuzzy



Crow flies is the important measurement for hearing sounds and visual things



Yet neither parent "heard" either Madeleine or Sean crying continuously the previous night ? Doesn't stack up does it ?

Offline TitoMuzzy

The child bedroom was completely invisible and out of earshot, indisputably.

Absolutely correct Pegasus !

Offline Benice

Yet neither parent "heard" either Madeleine or Sean crying continuously the previous night ? Doesn't stack up does it ?

Rachael Oldfield was next door for the whole of the previous night.    If there had been any prolonged crying from next door she would have heard it.   Agreed?

The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal

Offline sadie

Wasn't a clear view according to the Channel 4 dispatches documentary.

From 12:10 onwards:


This video is disgraceful.  It is full of disinformation and lies.

looking at the scene from 12.10 onwards we see a photograph and are told that this is the view the Mccann group had from the Tapas Bar.

1)  They weren't eating in the bar, they were eating in the restaurant which had a totally different view as it was directly opposite the apartments.  The restaurant is much, much closer (50 metres) and has a much more direct view into the patio area.

2)  The photo referred to [12.54 - 13.40 approx] is not even taken from the tapas bar, let alone the much closer restaurant where The Mccanns sat.   
It is actually taken from the grass area immediately adjacent to the most westerly tennis court


It is taken from absolutely the farthest point that the photographer could get away from 5A and the angle of the shot is completely wrong.  Because it is so sharp an angle the patio window is hidden.  From the correct shot position, most of the patio window is in view.
You can even see most of the end of block 5 on it.  The Tapas Restaurant did not go beyond the end of block 5.

Here we have an example of blatent lies designed to put out disinformation and bad propaganda for the Mccanns.


Someone is paying for and organizing all these lies and propaganda.  Someone who doesn't want Madeleine found ... and prefers for the Mccanns to unjustly take the rap rather than have Madeleine found and the perp discovered


No wonder that innocent people have been duped into blaming the Mccanns when such propaganda is being churned out and deliberately decimated far and wide


...................


And FGS, someone tell her that a tracing of a picture carefully shaded in is NOT Art.  She is violating Madeleines image with such a rubbishy tracing. 

She is quite good at painting phoney wood on garage doors if someone is so tasteless that they want it ...and that is it,   

She is just a sort of craftswoman ... nothing more. 

Offline sadie

Yet neither parent "heard" either Madeleine or Sean crying continuously the previous night ? Doesn't stack up does it ?
If Madeleine had come to the patio and shouted, they would have heard.  She has legs and a mighty voice, you know.