Author Topic: Hair and other samples taken from the hire car.  (Read 2299 times)

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Offline pathfinder73

Hair and other samples taken from the hire car.
« on: March 04, 2014, 09:00:27 PM »


9. Head hair collected from the vehicle luggage area.
10. Parts of the vehicle luggage area.
11. Fibres and possible head hair in the rear shelf/luggage cover.

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/59-DA-27.htm#2955

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What happened to the head hair collected re 9?


« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 11:36:05 AM by John »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Hair and other samples taken from the hire car.
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2014, 09:46:59 PM »
Everythingwas sent to the FSS in the UK, see my reply no 8 on this thread

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Hair and other samples taken from the hire car.
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2014, 10:12:53 PM »
Everythingwas sent to the FSS in the UK, see my reply no 8 on this thread

Thanks Red. It's not very good is it. Only guessing if it could be Madeleine's hair or not. You're telling me they couldn't find a sample of Madeleine's hair in 5A. No hair on hairbrush WTF!! From the Palmer report:

"I received [obtained] information from the pillow-case SJM/1, the  tops SJM2, 4 and 5, and the hairbrush SJM/36 belonging to Madeleine McCann or used by her. The hair found on these objects was used in substitution of [in place of] reference samples of her hair, [which were] not considered to be authentic samples of her hair.

 No hair was recovered from the pillow-case SJM/1 nor the hairbrush SJM/36.

 A total number of twelve [12] hairs or hair fragments were recovered from the  tops SJM/2, SJM/4 and SJM/5. All of these appeared to be hair and not down, being mainly blonde in colour. One of the hairs was brown and distinctly darker than the other hairs, suggesting, at the least, that this was a hair from someone else.

 The remaining eleven hairs/fragments varied in length from 4 millimetres to 45 millimetres [~1/8" to ~1,3/4"]. I could not conclude that all hairs were from the same person. If they had been from Madeleine McCann, then they are not representative/typical/characteristic of a sample of her hair, given the length of that seen in photographs of her."

1A, 1B, 1C, 1D,
 2A, 2B, 2C, 2D, 2E,
 3,
 4A, 4B, 4C,
 5A, 5B, 5C,
 6A, 6B, 6C,
 7A, 7B, 7C,
 8A, 8B, 8C,
 9 and
 11 (2 objects).

There were more than two hundred hairs, down or fragments of hair and down. The majority appeared to be different from the blonde reference hairs recovered from SJM2, 4 and 5. Furthermore, no blonde hair consistent with that seen in photographs of Madeleine McCann was found.

 Approximately 15 hairs, down or fragments were blonde and fair, presenting a similarity with the reference material. All were of insufficient length to make a solid [definitive] comparison. Furthermore, they are too short to do mitochondrial DNA tests. Follicle root material is insufficient for standard DNA tests.

 Four hairs - one from 7B and three from 7C - were sent for  Low Copy Number DNA testing. The results of those tests will be presented by my colleague John Lowe.

 Conclusion
 In the objects recovered from the Scenic, there were around 15 blonde/fair hairs similar to the reference hairs from SJM2, 4 and 5. However, as it was not possible to do solid [definitive] or significant [forensically meaningful] tests it is not possible for me to determine if, or not, these could have been from Madeleine McCann.

 The conclusions expressed in the present deposition are based on information available at the date of the examination. In the case that there are changes to that information, or additional information becomes available, it may be necessary to reconsider my interpretation and conclusions. That re-evaluation will be most effective when done immediately prior to any judgement.

 A.L. Palmer

 Translated by Lieve Van Loock.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 10:27:18 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Hair and other samples taken from the hire car.
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2014, 10:25:43 PM »
We are no experts but you can tell that was a poor report on a couple fronts without being one. He also did not answer the PJs request to test hairs for post mortem indications. This is very simple to do, you look under the  bloody microscope for death banding.

Oh well.!

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Hair and other samples taken from the hire car.
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2014, 10:31:29 PM »
I'm no expert at all on this stuff but how isn't there a hair on her pillow case or hairbrush? That's unbelievable. Gerry got the pillow case - did it get a good cleaning like CC  8-)(--)
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 10:37:59 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Hair and other samples taken from the hire car.
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2014, 10:41:36 PM »
I'm no expert at all on this stuff but how isn't there a hair on her pillow case or hairbrush? That's unbelievable. Gerry got the pillow case - did it get a good cleaning like CC  8-)(--)

it doesnt make sense


"I received [obtained] information from the pillow-case SJM/1, the  tops SJM2, 4 and 5, and the hairbrush SJM/36 belonging to Madeleine McCann or used by her. The hair found on these objects was used in substitution of [in place of] reference samples of her hair, [which were] not considered to be authentic samples of her hair.

 No hair was recovered from the pillow-case SJM/1 nor the hairbrush SJM/36.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 10:43:34 PM by Redblossom »

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Hair and other samples taken from the hire car.
« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2014, 10:46:57 PM »
Correct it doesn't. Can someone translate this please? Thanks. This section:

""I received [obtained] information from the pillow-case SJM/1, the  tops SJM2, 4 and 5, and the hairbrush SJM/36 belonging to Madeleine McCann or used by her. The hair found on these objects was used in substitution of [in place of] reference samples of her hair, [which were] not considered to be authentic samples of her hair.

 No hair was recovered from the pillow-case SJM/1 nor the hairbrush SJM/36."





http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/A_L_PALMER.htm
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 10:51:09 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Carana

Re: Hair and other samples taken from the hire car.
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2014, 07:45:36 AM »
We are no experts but you can tell that was a poor report on a couple fronts without being one. He also did not answer the PJs request to test hairs for post mortem indications. This is very simple to do, you look under the  bloody microscope for death banding.

Oh well.!

The hair fragments were only 4-45 mm and only 4 had enough root to even attempt LCN. Banding doesn't always happen, but when it does it appears near the root.

Corte-Real was at the FSS, and could have had an opportunity to examine them. If so, he presumably didn't notice anything either. Anyway, they were handed over to Viegas, so they could be examined again, if need be.


When hairs originate from a body in a state of decomposition, a dark band may appear near the root of the hair. This characteristic has been labeled a postmortem root band.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/forensic-science-communications/fsc/july2000/deedric1.htm

Offline pathfinder73

Re: Hair and other samples taken from the hire car.
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2014, 11:59:14 AM »
Head hairs found in the boot in position number 9 is what interests me. There's nothing in that report about what hairs were found in position 9 in the boot, how many hairs etc. Out of those 15 similar hairs there's nothing saying whereabouts in the car they came from? Not a helpful report.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 12:02:11 PM by pathfinder73 »
Smithman carrying a child in his arms checked his watch after passing the Smith family and the time was 10:03. Both are still unidentified 10 years later.

Offline Anna

Re: Hair and other samples taken from the hire car.
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2014, 12:07:25 PM »
Head hairs found in the boot in position number 9 is what interests me. There's nothing in that report about what hairs were found in position 9 in the boot, how many hairs etc. Out of those 15 similar hairs there's nothing saying whereabouts in the car they came from? Not a helpful report.
If the doors were open every day as a routine, the hairs would have been blown all over the place or even out of the car.
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Hair and other samples taken from the hire car.
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2014, 12:09:11 PM »
Head hairs found in the boot in position number 9 is what interests me. There's nothing in that report about what hairs were found in position 9 in the boot, how many hairs etc. Out of those 15 similar hairs there's nothing saying whereabouts in the car they came from? Not a helpful report.

Not at all I agree.

Redblossom

  • Guest
Re: Hair and other samples taken from the hire car.
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2014, 12:13:38 PM »
The hair fragments were only 4-45 mm and only 4 had enough root to even attempt LCN. Banding doesn't always happen, but when it does it appears near the root.

Corte-Real was at the FSS, and could have had an opportunity to examine them. If so, he presumably didn't notice anything either. Anyway, they were handed over to Viegas, so they could be examined again, if need be.


When hairs originate from a body in a state of decomposition, a dark band may appear near the root of the hair. This characteristic has been labeled a postmortem root band.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/lab/forensic-science-communications/fsc/july2000/deedric1.htm

So just a bunch of suppositions? Fact remans that Palmer report is as clear as MUD, not good for a scientist

If the doors were open every day as a routine, the hairs would have been blown all over the place or even out of the car.

But they werent blown out as they were collected. And I think you would need mega gusts to move hairs from one area of a car from upholstered seats they tend to stick on to another ie over them and to the boot if thats what youre  suggesting
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 12:19:08 PM by Redblossom »

Offline Carana

Re: Hair and other samples taken from the hire car.
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2014, 01:02:27 PM »
So just a bunch of suppositions? Fact remans that Palmer report is as clear as MUD, not good for a scientist



Corte Real from the INML was at the FSS to go over the results. The report wasn't intended for Internet armchair detectives.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2014, 11:36:14 AM by John »