Kate McCann admits in her book that private criminal investigations in Portugal were illegal.

[Alice Purjorick]

In other words ... you do not have an authoritative Portuguese source for your claim of illegality.

Ha ha ; I thought Portuguese sources were considered to be unreliable by some?
I do recall posting a link on 13th July so you could look at that.
Why do you not believe Kate McCann's comment in her book? Is is because it does not suit your purpose my dear?

[Alice Purjorick]

Perhaps you could share some of your information with credible sources as a reference?

Do you mean you have no information?
How unfortunate.

[Carana]

Do you mean you have no information?
How unfortunate.

I was expecting that you might have some. Do you?

[Alice Purjorick]

I was expecting that you might have some. Do you?

Read this quick as most of it is off topic and will no doubt be redacted.

About the same as you I would imagine. There is plenty of information on the net but it is a tedious question of separating sheep from goats and most of us have better things to do; indeed just other things to do.
With regard to whether or not running a private investigation parallel with a police criminal investigation is illegal in Portugal who knows? I would imagine if one wrote to a Portuguese Advogado one would obtain a definitive answer at a price.
The nearest we have is the suggestion in Kate McCann's book that were doing something "technically illegal" and the article in the Daily Telegraph that I have already posted a link to.
According to Wikipedia which is not renowned for its accuracy:
"In some countries, the practice of a detective is not yet recognized in courts and judicial processes. One of these countries is Portugal, where the proof presented loses all the significance when collected by a private detective. Even under this circumstance, the practice of this activity is in demand, and ruled by a code of conduct".
Whether or not the practice is illegal, private investigators everywhere can run foul of obstructing the course of justice. In the United States private investigators have been subject to rigorous examination in knowledge of the law and investigation before being granted a licence. In 2007 in the United Kingdom every man jack could set themselves up as PI without requiring a licence as there was no licensing arrangement then; that may still apply but in 2013 the Home Sec. was proposing a system in the UK similar to the US.

[Carana]

Read this quick as most of it is off topic and will no doubt be redacted.

About the same as you I would imagine. There is plenty of information on the net but it is a tedious question of separating sheep from goats and most of us have better things to do; indeed just other things to do.
With regard to whether or not running a private investigation parallel with a police criminal investigation is illegal in Portugal who knows? I would imagine if one wrote to a Portuguese Advogado one would obtain a definitive answer at a price.
The nearest we have is the suggestion in Kate McCann's book that were doing something "technically illegal" and the article in the Daily Telegraph that I have already posted a link to.
According to Wikipedia which is not renowned for its accuracy:
"In some countries, the practice of a detective is not yet recognized in courts and judicial processes. One of these countries is Portugal, where the proof presented loses all the significance when collected by a private detective. Even under this circumstance, the practice of this activity is in demand, and ruled by a code of conduct".
Whether or not the practice is illegal, private investigators everywhere can run foul of obstructing the course of justice. In the United States private investigators have been subject to rigorous examination in knowledge of the law and investigation before being granted a licence. In 2007 in the United Kingdom every man jack could set themselves up as PI without requiring a licence as there was no licensing arrangement then; that may still apply but in 2013 the Home Sec. was proposing a system in the UK similar to the US.

Thanks. I don't see what's off topic.

"In some countries, the practice of a detective is not yet recognized in courts and judicial processes. One of these countries is Portugal, where the proof presented loses all the significance when collected by a private detective. Even under this circumstance, the practice of this activity is in demand, and ruled by a code of conduct".
Whether or not the practice is illegal, private investigators everywhere can run foul of obstructing the course of justice.


I still don't see what was illegal.

- PIs evidence not yet recognised as evidence in court... yes, well, quite possibly. And? No court has come to trial yet.

- Yes, of course, PIs can fall foul of the law in terms of how they gather info... but what did they actually do as opposed to what media pundits assumed they may have done?

- If the PIs handed over their info to the police, it would have been up to the police to verify.

- If they didn't use illegal means... what's illegal?

[Alice Purjorick]

Thanks. I don't see what's off topic.

"In some countries, the practice of a detective is not yet recognized in courts and judicial processes. One of these countries is Portugal, where the proof presented loses all the significance when collected by a private detective. Even under this circumstance, the practice of this activity is in demand, and ruled by a code of conduct".
Whether or not the practice is illegal, private investigators everywhere can run foul of obstructing the course of justice.


I still don't see what was illegal.

- PIs evidence not yet recognised as evidence in court... yes, well, quite possibly. And? No court has come to trial yet.

- Yes, of course, PIs can fall foul of the law in terms of how they gather info... but what did they actually do as opposed to what media pundits assumed they may have done?

- If the PIs handed over their info to the police, it would have been up to the police to verify.

- If they didn't use illegal means... what's illegal?

The only "evidence" is a Telegraph article from 2007 and a comment in Kate McCanns book.
All the rest remains unfortunately speculation. I would speculate that even were there a law against it, unless the PI's in Portugal, presuming they were in Portugal, seriously impeded the police investigation or intimidated police witnesses they would perhaps be given a quiet warning by the police, if it came to light, and no more but that we shall never know. The PI's would be under obligation only to their paymasters so the police would not necessarily be privy to the information garnered.

[Carana]

The only "evidence" is a Telegraph article from 2007 and a comment in Kate McCanns book.
All the rest remains unfortunately speculation. I would speculate that even were there a law against it, unless the PI's in Portugal, presuming they were in Portugal, seriously impeded the police investigation or intimidated police witnesses they would perhaps be given a quiet warning by the police, if it came to light, and no more but that we shall never know. The PI's would be under obligation only to their paymasters so the police would not necessarily be privy to the information garnered.

Thanks for your reply.

I have no problem imagining that if journos had gone to the PJ or any ex-PJ pundit and asked how they'd like US-style big-boots bounty-type hunters on their turf, they would have not been very pleased at the idea and would have said so in no uncertain terms. Whereupon, the hacks merrily noted the comments and had got their copy for the day / week.

However, there simply doesn't seem to be anything verifiable that the PIs actually did do anything illegal.

At the moment, the blanket statement that a private investigation is illegal on PT territory seems to be a myth.

[faithlilly]

I do not want to turn into Stephen but since you are also becoming a tad repetative I may as well join in ... sighhhhh ... put up or shut up (with all due respect) and ... provide a cite for your assertion.

I didn't assert anything, Kate did.

Now at the risk of becoming repetitive, don't you believe her ?

[ferryman]

Read this quick as most of it is off topic and will no doubt be redacted.

About the same as you I would imagine. There is plenty of information on the net but it is a tedious question of separating sheep from goats and most of us have better things to do; indeed just other things to do.
With regard to whether or not running a private investigation parallel with a police criminal investigation is illegal in Portugal who knows? I would imagine if one wrote to a Portuguese Advogado one would obtain a definitive answer at a price.
The nearest we have is the suggestion in Kate McCann's book that were doing something "technically illegal" and the article in the Daily Telegraph that I have already posted a link to.
According to Wikipedia which is not renowned for its accuracy:
"In some countries, the practice of a detective is not yet recognized in courts and judicial processes. One of these countries is Portugal, where the proof presented loses all the significance when collected by a private detective. Even under this circumstance, the practice of this activity is in demand, and ruled by a code of conduct".
Whether or not the practice is illegal, private investigators everywhere can run foul of obstructing the course of justice. In the United States private investigators have been subject to rigorous examination in knowledge of the law and investigation before being granted a licence. In 2007 in the United Kingdom every man jack could set themselves up as PI without requiring a licence as there was no licensing arrangement then; that may still apply but in 2013 the Home Sec. was proposing a system in the UK similar to the US.

The nearest we have is the suggestion in Kate McCann's book that were doing something "technically illegal"

We don't have that suggestion in Kate's book.

Kate says that so as to stay legal, they based their private investigators outside Portugal ...

As to the technical point of whether private investigators can operate inside Portugal in tandem with an official police enquiry into the same matter, it seems (to me!) intuitively logical that such a practice might be outlawed, but Carana says she can find nothing to that effect in the Portuguese penal code.

I really can't comment ...

[Alice Purjorick]

So  you state that you do not know the law re private investigations in Portugal and everything is speculation...glad that's cleared up

Well sir I don't believe I suggested that I did. I only said that it was stated in a media article in 2007 that private investigations of criminal activities are illegal while the police investigation is live.
Tell us what do you know about Portuguese law sir that leads you to believe the article was incorrect; other than blind prejudice and a belief you know everything?
Or do you just gainsay for the sake of it?

[Mr Gray]

Well sir I don't believe I suggested that I did. I only said that it was stated in a media article in 2007 that private investigations of criminal activities are illegal while the police investigation is live.
Tell us what do you know about Portuguese law sir that leads you to believe the article was incorrect; other than blind prejudice and a belief you know everything?
Or do you just gainsay for the sake of it?

I never said the article was incorrect but like most newspaper articles its accuracy is not guaranteed...I certainly would not accuse someone of breaking the law on such limited information

[Alice Purjorick]

I never said the article was incorrect but like most newspaper articles its accuracy is not guaranteed...I certainly would not accuse someone of breaking the law on such limited information

It remains that you have failed to avail us of your knowledge of Portuguese law as was asked. As you normally so readily respond one must assume you have no knowledge of Portuguese law. Much the same as most of the rest as it were. 

[sadie]

It remains that you have failed to avail us of your knowledge of Portuguese law as was asked. As you normally so readily respond one must assume you have no knowledge of Portuguese law. Much the same as most of the rest as it were.

OoooO, you're such a card AP !  Ma'am


Your gobblededook creases me up 

[slartibartfast]

OoooO, you're such a card AP !  Ma'am


Your gobblededook creases me up 

It's called English.

[faithlilly]

Now why would anyone choose avatars of Annie Lennox and Freddy Mercury?. That my dears really is weird. Merciful heavens Sadie please try harder; Dorothy Parker you are not my dear.

Dorothy Parker. Now there's was a lady with a razor sharp tongue and the intellect to use it to its best effect.

“You can't teach an old dogma new tricks.”

How very true.