Kate McCann admits in her book that private criminal investigations in Portugal were illegal.

[Jean-Pierre]

Given his sharp exit to Madeira and the scandal preceding it, perhaps she was being a wee bit psychic on that occasion.

I think from the press reports at the time you may be on the right lines there Brietta 

[Mr Gray]

Those words of kate mccann and 'others' in that book will label her for years to come.

The sheer arrogance of the woman is sometimes breathtaking.

I think she's wonderful

[pathfinder73]

Such an exceptional mother that she was cleaning a stain and chatting by the pool about paedos instead of watching her daughter sailing for the first time on the day she disappeared. Talk about paedos seemed to be the order of the day!

"The only other unexplained detail I remember from that morning was a large, brown stain I noticed on Madeleine’s pink Eeyore pyjama top. I couldn’t recall seeing it the night before and I had no idea how it might have got there. It looked like a tea stain. Gerry and I do drink quite a bit of tea, and Madeleine, too, would have the odd small cup. So at the time I just assumed it was a drink spillage that had escaped our attention, and that might well be all it was. But now, of course, we can no longer make assumptions about anything that can’t be accounted for.

The morning continued like the others with kids’ clubs and tennis. After my lesson, I hung around on the grassy play area, watching Gerry on the court and chatting to Russell, who I’d found there. Another guest appeared with a video camera to record his three-year-old daughter playing mini-tennis. He looked a little embarrassed and laughingly remarked to us that filming in this way made him feel like a dirty old man. It led to a conversation between the three of us about paedophiles. I remember Russell talking about how everything had got a bit out of hand, that these days people were so untrusting you hardly dared speak to children you didn’t know. What he was effectively saying was that the world had become paranoid; that he wanted his daughters to grow up with confidence and a sense of freedom. The other dad and I chipped in with our views – I mentioned not being allowed to take photographs of your own kids in swimming pools any longer – and we agreed that it was a shame things had come to this, especially for the children. It would be some days before Russell and I were able to acknowledge to each other the horrible irony of this conversation." (Madeleine)

[Wonderfulspam]

Such an exceptional mother that she was cleaning a stain and chatting by the pool about paedos instead of watching her daughter sailing for the first time on the day she disappeared. Talk about paedos seemed to be rife that day!

I forgot that one.

Such a sad,sad coincidence that... there Kate was, by the pool, merrily chewing over sexual deviants (as one does).... then it just so happens that a Portuguese paedophile gang member (who could be mistaken for Gerry, wore some buttoned trousers) entered 5a, with a key, hung around for a hour moving the bedroom door & opening the window for whatever reason, before then leaving with Madeleine (having changed her pyjamas & sedated her & the twins) via the front door, closing & locking it behind him.

Tragic.

[Brietta]

If private detectives are illegal in Portugal, why did the PJ follow up information given to them by Metodo 3 about a lorry driver they had traced who they thought might have had information re Madeleine.

Seems they were content to act on the information relayed from M3 on a live case which suggests it is total nonsense that such activities were considered to be illegal.
 
PRIVATE DETECTIVES
3445 to 3454 External diligence carried out re: Metodo 3, 2007.11.21

Page 3445-3449: The external diligence report dated 21 November on the follow up work done
Page 3450-3453: supporting photos taken during the follow up, and
Page 3454: phone mast evidence exonerating M Walczuch, R Murat, S Malinka and L Antonio from any involvement in the alleged sighting by the truck driver.

In point form:
- The PJ traced the driver, Manuel A P Gautier, and spoke to him.
- He acknowledged speaking to M3 on 3 November.
- He and PJ met by agreement at a given location on IC1.
- The driver related his story of having seen a grey Audi and a green car (possibly Opel Astra) on 4 May between 15h00 and 17h00 in the IC1 freeway
- He saw a woman (standing next to the Audi) pass something wrapped in cloth to a man (next to the green car) over the metal fence.
- From what he could make out it was not very heavy and there was nothing to suggest it might have been a child.
- They went to the location where photos were taken.
- The resident of a nearby house was questioned by the PJ. He neither saw nor heard vehicles in his 'driveway' on 4 May, and noticed nothing untoward with the closed gate across its entrance.
- The driver stated that from pictures in the printed media he recognised some resemblance between MW and the woman he saw on 4 May, mainly some facial features, her build and hair colour, but he could not positively assert that it was her.
- The driver could not recall the man.
- The PJ checked the phone antenna records for 4 May and found phone calls to and from MW, RM, SM and LA during that day, and during the time of the alleged observation, all calls showing they were all some 65 km away from the location of the alleged sighting.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/METODO_3.htm

[Alice Purjorick]

If private detectives are illegal in Portugal, why did the PJ follow up information given to them by Metodo 3 about a lorry driver they had traced who they thought might have had information re Madeleine.

Seems they were content to act on the information relayed from M3 on a live case which suggests it is total nonsense that such activities were considered to be illegal.
 
PRIVATE DETECTIVES
3445 to 3454 External diligence carried out re: Metodo 3, 2007.11.21

Page 3445-3449: The external diligence report dated 21 November on the follow up work done
Page 3450-3453: supporting photos taken during the follow up, and
Page 3454: phone mast evidence exonerating M Walczuch, R Murat, S Malinka and L Antonio from any involvement in the alleged sighting by the truck driver.

In point form:
- The PJ traced the driver, Manuel A P Gautier, and spoke to him.
- He acknowledged speaking to M3 on 3 November.
- He and PJ met by agreement at a given location on IC1.
- The driver related his story of having seen a grey Audi and a green car (possibly Opel Astra) on 4 May between 15h00 and 17h00 in the IC1 freeway
- He saw a woman (standing next to the Audi) pass something wrapped in cloth to a man (next to the green car) over the metal fence.
- From what he could make out it was not very heavy and there was nothing to suggest it might have been a child.
- They went to the location where photos were taken.
- The resident of a nearby house was questioned by the PJ. He neither saw nor heard vehicles in his 'driveway' on 4 May, and noticed nothing untoward with the closed gate across its entrance.
- The driver stated that from pictures in the printed media he recognised some resemblance between MW and the woman he saw on 4 May, mainly some facial features, her build and hair colour, but he could not positively assert that it was her.
- The driver could not recall the man.
- The PJ checked the phone antenna records for 4 May and found phone calls to and from MW, RM, SM and LA during that day, and during the time of the alleged observation, all calls showing they were all some 65 km away from the location of the alleged sighting.
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/METODO_3.htm

Why?

[Brietta]

Why?

Why what?

[Alice Purjorick]

Why what?

My dear I see that this will be like pulling teeth.
I highlighted the part in question but as you wish to have it written on a sign in 32 point and held in front of you:-
Why do you think it is a nonsense that the PJ should have followed up on information provided by Metodo3?
Under Portuguese law the information provided by a private inquiry agent would not be admissible in court so it would seem natural that the police would follow it up and interview persons as it would be admissible then if presented by the police.
Whether or not Metodo3 were chastised for being under the feet of the PJ we shall never know.

[Eleanor]

My dear I see that this will be like pulling teeth.
I highlighted the part in question but as you wish to have it written on a sign in 32 point and held in front of you:-
Why do you think it is a nonsense that the PJ should have followed up on information provided by Metodo3?
Under Portuguese law the information provided by a private inquiry agent would not be admissible in court so it would seem natural that the police would follow it up and interview persons as it would be admissible then if presented by the police.
Whether or not Metodo3 were chastised for being under the feet of the PJ we shall never know.

Has anyone been charged?

[Brietta]

My dear I see that this will be like pulling teeth.
I highlighted the part in question but as you wish to have it written on a sign in 32 point and held in front of you:-
Why do you think it is a nonsense that the PJ should have followed up on information provided by Metodo3?
Under Portuguese law the information provided by a private inquiry agent would not be admissible in court so it would seem natural that the police would follow it up and interview persons as it would be admissible then if presented by the police.
Whether or not Metodo3 were chastised for being under the feet of the PJ we shall never know.

Hmmm … in other words – it is not illegal in Portugal for Private Investigators to work in conjunction with the policing authority on a live case – the PIs do the initial investigation – the PJ act on that initial investigation either to rule it in or rule it out of the inquiry, as in this case – however had it been found to have had substance, information from the PI inquiry would be ‘sanitised’ by a police investigation to make it admissible in a court of law.

Just as the Met can do nothing when working in Portugal without the co-operation of the authorities; neither could the private detectives hired by the fund.

Therefore it is not illegal to use private investigators in a live criminal investigation in Portugal.

Thank you for your invaluable attempt to assist but if you read my initial post very carefully you will comprehend that is what I said.

IT IS NOT ILLEGAL ... so sorry for shouting but you do seem to be a little hard of hearing.

[Eleanor]

Hmmm … in other words – it is not illegal in Portugal for Private Investigators to work in conjunction with the policing authority on a live case – the PIs do the initial investigation – the PJ act on that initial investigation either to rule it in or rule it out of the inquiry, as in this case – however had it been found to have had substance, information from the PI inquiry would be ‘sanitised’ by a police investigation to make it admissible in a court of law.

Just as the Met can do nothing when working in Portugal without the co-operation of the authorities; neither could the private detectives hired by the fund.

Therefore it is not illegal to use private investigators in a live criminal investigation in Portugal.

Thank you for your invaluable attempt to assist but if you read my initial post very carefully you will comprehend that is what I said.

IT IS NOT ILLEGAL ... so sorry for shouting but you do seem to be a little hard of hearing.

So this is what it amounts to.  Not admissible in a Court of Law.  But not illegal.

[Carana]

So this is what it amounts to.  Not admissible in a Court of Law.  But not illegal.

It would seem that there are several aspects:

- The use of illegal means (which would be a criminal offence anywhere). There is no evidence of the use of such means.

- The use of evidence gathered by illegal means. Such evidence wouldn't be allowed in a court (anywhere, in theory).

- The use of evidence gathered by PIs directly in a court case without passing via the PJ. PIs have no legal standing, therefore their evidence would not be admissible in court as evidence. It would therefore be up to the PJ to check out that "intelligence" to seek evidence.

I'm still waiting for someone to show me a specific article in the PT codes whereby gathering any potential information legally and presenting it to the police so that they can check it out would be illegal. As far as I'm aware, that is what happened.

The newspaper article that stated that the use of PIs may be illegal grew wings and became troo fact... As usual.

[Alice Purjorick]

Hmmm … in other words – it is not illegal in Portugal for Private Investigators to work in conjunction with the policing authority on a live case – the PIs do the initial investigation – the PJ act on that initial investigation either to rule it in or rule it out of the inquiry, as in this case – however had it been found to have had substance, information from the PI inquiry would be ‘sanitised’ by a police investigation to make it admissible in a court of law.

Just as the Met can do nothing when working in Portugal without the co-operation of the authorities; neither could the private detectives hired by the fund.

Therefore it is not illegal to use private investigators in a live criminal investigation in Portugal.

Thank you for your invaluable attempt to assist but if you read my initial post very carefully you will comprehend that is what I said.

IT IS NOT ILLEGAL ... so sorry for shouting but you do seem to be a little hard of hearing.

On what do you base that opinion?
As I posted somewhere on this forum until someone writes to a Portuguese Abrogado and obtains a definitive answer re-the legality of private investigators working on a criminal investigation in Portugal it is all guesswork on here by incompletely  informed internet punters. That may be unpalatable to some but "that's where it's at baby".

[Mr Gray]

On what do you base that opinion?
As I posted somewhere on this forum until someone writes to a Portuguese Abrogado and obtains a definitive answer re-the legality of private investigators working on a criminal investigation in Portugal it is all guesswork on here by incompletely  informed internet punters. That may be unpalatable to some but "that's where it's at baby".

You have made this point several times and I agree to a certain extent...therefore it is wrong to claim that private investigations as described are illegal in Portugal....we simply don't know that they are...

What I have also noticed is that you have only made this point to those who say investigations are legal but never to those who say they are illegal....

the bias is very apparrent

[John]

The illegality comes from the obstruction of justice element previously referred to.  The involvement of private investigators in a live criminal case could have had serious repercussions for any trial.  That said the PJ were only too glad to receive leads from Método 3 up until the point their true agenda was revealed.