Author Topic: Kate McCann admits in her book that private criminal investigations in Portugal were illegal.  (Read 128330 times)

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Offline Jean-Pierre

You can't pick and choose the tasks Carana.  The McCanns should have stayed in Portugal and assisted the official investigation instead of hightailing it out at the first opportunity.  They let Madeleine down and they let themselves down by their actions.

Angelo - you stated earlier tat "The Penal Code won't be that specific".  The whole point of having a civil law system is that it is codified and therefore WILL be specific.  So if it ain't in the code it does not exist.  The penal and civil codes codes in Portugal are in effect a comprehensive rule book.   


The following article from Find Law UK provides a brief outline of the differences and may help underline the differences..

Civil law systems

The origins of European civil law can be traced back to the sixth century Byzantine / East Roman Empire and the Code of Justinian — or, to give it its Latin name, the ‘corpus juris civilis’ which means ‘body of civil law’. The aim of this Code — and all of its descendants — was to harmonise the law and iron out any contradictions; essentially, to provide an accessible and written rulebook for universal application.

A standard code is a voluminous collection of statutes arranged by subject matter. Since it is the primary source of law, courts in a civil law system are usually inquisitorial rather than adversarial, not bound by precedent, and usually presided over by career judges who play a limited role in interpreting the law.

Common law systems

The common law system has its origins in 11th and 12th century England. Its name derives from the efforts of Henry II to institutionalise the common law by establishing a unified legal system that would become ‘common’ throughout the land.

So what are the constituents of this common law? Well, judicial decisions essentially, rather than legislation or executive acts.

But the common law is far more than just judge-made law. The underlying assumption of the common law is courts are bound to follow the same reasoning applied in past cases, which has so-called ‘precedential weight’. Moreover, as the court system developed a hierarchy over the centuries, the decisions of higher courts (e.g., the Supreme Court, Court of Appeal, etc) gradually gained greater weight of authority than lower courts and tribunals.

Where a court encounters a case unlike any other it has previously decided, it is free to reach its own mind on what the law should be, thereby creating precedent which will bind future courts.

The other main differences between common law and civil law systems are the absence of career judges and the adversarial nature of proceedings. In a common law system, judges tend to be senior lawyers who are called to the bench after many years practicing the law. Moreover, the judge plays a far less active and dominant role in proceedings. He or she merely interprets the law and ensures the trial is conducted fairly. Judges in common law jurisdictions have no investigatory function, unlike in civil law systems
 

Offline Mr Gray

Try attempting to pervert the course of justice Portuguese equivalent and you won't be far away.  The experts in Portuguese law did state there is no place for a private criminal investigation in Portugal.

the article John quoted said that the investigators  COULD be charged with obstruction....not WOULD....so far it seems threre is still no confirmation that a private investigtion would be illegal.

Offline Angelo222


That doesn't answer my question. Which statute in the 2007 Penal Code prohibits anyone from providing information to an investigation, within the laws of the land?

Anyone can provide information to the Portuguese cops Carana but interference with an official investigation is a no no.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Angelo222

Were there no flights between Portugal and Britain between early May 2007 and early September then?

Funny you should mention flights, was that an attempt at humour?   ?{)(**

Gerry certainly was on the verge of fleeing if Kate's account in her book is to be believed.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Angelo222

Did you see this Angelo -



 "They can now focus on the work of Metodo 3 who are using all their significant resources across several countries. It's illegal for them to work in Portugal, and their investigation is separate from the official police inquiry, but has been approved by the local detectives and all information will be passed on to them."



Seems as though they had ok'd it with the detectives in Portugal and they passed on all that they discovered.

Quote from?
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Mr Gray

Anyone can provide information to the Portuguese cops Carana but interference with an official investigation is a no no.

collecting information is not interfering with the investigation

Offline Angelo222

Angelo - you stated earlier tat "The Penal Code won't be that specific".  The whole point of having a civil law system is that it is codified and therefore WILL be specific.

When I stated specific I thought that you would understand that this related to interference in a missing child enquiry.  I can't see the Portuguese statues specifically relating to a bunch of Yahoo's from Barcelona, or am I mistaken?
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Mr Gray

You can't pick and choose the tasks Carana.  The McCanns should have stayed in Portugal and assisted the official investigation instead of hightailing it out at the first opportunity.  They let Madeleine down and they let themselves down by their actions.

you need to add IMO...you have no right to dictate to the mccanns what they should and shouldn't do...imo the mccanns had no choice but to leave portugal

Offline Angelo222

the article John quoted said that the investigators  COULD be charged with obstruction....not WOULD....so far it seems threre is still no confirmation that a private investigtion would be illegal.

If it conflicts with the official one it is very illegal.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Angelo222

collecting information is not interfering with the investigation

Making up stories and scaring off potential witnesses is.  So is intimidating poor Moroccan families and pressurizing Irishmen.
De troothe has the annoying habit of coming to the surface just when you least expect it!!

Je ne regrette rien!!

Offline Carana

Anyone can provide information to the Portuguese cops Carana but interference with an official investigation is a no no.

I agree, but what does "interference" mean?

Does that include information passed on by UK law enforcement, in case it was of any relevance, do you think?

It was, after all, GA's eruption to someone in the media (his wife's friend, according to him) over the latest bit of potentially helpful information passed on by the UK (for whatever it was worth), that led to him being taken off the case.





Offline Mr Gray

If it conflicts with the official one it is very illegal.
who said anything about conflicting...so are you now saying if it doesn't conflict it is legal

Offline Mr Gray

Making up stories and scaring off potential witnesses is.  So is intimidating poor Moroccan families and pressurizing Irishmen.

again in your opinion but the FACT is those actions took place outside portugal and not under the jurisdiction of portuguese law

ferryman

  • Guest
When I stated specific I thought that you would understand that this related to interference in a missing child enquiry.  I can't see the Portuguese statues specifically relating to a bunch of Yahoo's from Barcelona, or am I mistaken?

The national penal code of Portugal applies to and governs activity in Portugal, just as the national penal codes of all countries govern activity in the country the penal code applies to.

There can be jurisdiction, centrally administered, applicable to several countries (as in EU law) or in several states of one country (as in American Federal law).

But in Portugal, broadly, so long as outside investigators don't encroach onto Portuguese territory, they can (separately) investigate a matter in conjunction with the PJ, and simultaneously with a PJ investigation. 

Offline Mr Gray

The national penal code of Portugal applies to and governs activity in Portugal, just as the national penal codes of all countries govern activity in the country the penal code applies to.

There can be jurisdiction, centrally administered, applicable to several countries (as in EU law) or in several states of one country (as in American Federal law).

But in Portugal, broadly, so long as outside investigators don't encroach onto Portuguese territory, they can (separately) investigate a matter in conjunction with the PJ, and simultaneously with a PJ investigation.

so was Mrs Murat breaking the law...of course she wasn't...I think some posters are confused