The Lies of Jeremy Bamber

[puglove]

If Jane Andrews escaped because of another bloke she shouldn't be let out, he will be the next victim


How are the horses Shona?

Sweet of you to ask!! Not good at the moment...actually, you're possibly the only one I can ask about this (it's just like Wide Awake!!). My clumsy fat yearling has bowed a tendon and is hopping lame, but I can't afford any more vet's bills. Can I get away with hosing her leg?

[puglove]

If Jane Andrews escaped because of another bloke she shouldn't be let out, he will be the next victim


How are the horses Shona?

Sweet of you to ask!! Not good at the moment...actually, you're possibly the only one I can ask about this (it's just like Wide Awake!!). My clumsy fat yearling has bowed a tendon and is hopping lame, but I can't afford any more vet's bills. Can I get away with hosing her leg?

Seriously, really thanks for asking. I've been really worried.

[puglove]

If Jane Andrews escaped because of another bloke she shouldn't be let out, he will be the next victim


How are the horses Shona?

Sweet of you to ask!! Not good at the moment...actually, you're possibly the only one I can ask about this (it's just like Wide Awake!!). My clumsy fat yearling has bowed a tendon and is hopping lame, but I can't afford any more vet's bills. Can I get away with hosing her leg?

Seriously, really thanks for asking. I've been really worried.

Sorry that I don't know how to start a new thread, but I would very much like to discuss the Michael Stone/Russell murders, at some point. It would be brilliant if Starryian could get on the case. It obviously wasn't Michael Stone, but very possibly Levi Bellfield. There isn't much info out there, but possibly enough.

[jackiepreece]

Shona

I have been really lucky my horses, I have only ever had two things go wrong, one when I was 14 and my horse got colic and I slept in the stable all night so he didn't get down an roll. Really scary rats around etc

The second time was a different horse, I had just got him and a relief blacksmith put a nail in his hoof by mistake. I couldn't ride him for two months.

I am not sure about the tendon problem but I would definitely try the hose first.  I have definitely done that loads with bad cuts that are swollen and it make a big difference.

[puglove]

If Jane Andrews escaped because of another bloke she shouldn't be let out, he will be the next victim


How are the horses Shona?

Sweet of you to ask!! Not good at the moment...actually, you're possibly the only one I can ask about this (it's just like Wide Awake!!). My clumsy fat yearling has bowed a tendon and is hopping lame, but I can't afford any more vet's bills. Can I get away with hosing her leg?

Seriously, really thanks for asking. I've been really worried.

Sorry that I don't know how to start a new thread, but I would very much like to discuss the Michael Stone/Russell murders, at some point. It would be brilliant if Starryian could get on the case. It obviously wasn't Michael Stone, but very possibly Levi Bellfield. There isn't much info out there, but possibly enough.

Michael Stone is 5ft 6. Josie told the police that "the man" was as tall as her dad (6ft 1). He had blonde hair. Michael Stone had brown hair. Levi Bellfield had just dyed his hair blond. Bellfield's MO was tying up his victims, then using a hammer. Exactly how the Russell family died. Bellfield was seen, on the edge of a field, out of his car, looking towards where the family was ambushed and killed. Why?

Poor Michael Stone was the innocent nutter. Just like Barry George. But no one speaks for him.

[Admin]

Thank you David. I think that a number of posters here are doing a great job debunking the campaign of misinformation put out by Bamber's supporters. IMO it is disgusting to see them continue to corrupt the memories of the VICTIMS of Bamber's slaughter . The latest rubbish on their forum includes the idea that June might also have played a role. I suppose that it will only be a matter of time before they try to blame the twins ! I see that Hartley and Bridget patiently slog away at trying to counter the absurd theorising on the Bamber forum but I fear that they are wasting their time as these people are so obsessed with the idea that Bamber is innocent that their minds are closed. They really ought to be ashamed of themselves for the way in which they defile the reputations of people who cannot answer back.

Absolutely Dillon, Hartley and Bridget are only fuelling the propaganda by encouraging them in such an apocryphal debate.

[Admin]

When I was new to the case at first I was shocked at the fact Bamber was convicted with so little direct evidence of his having been at the scene. However, the fact is either Bamber really did receive a phone call from his father in the middle of the night or he didn't. And if he didn't and he knew something was wrong at the farm then he must have been responsible. The story about Sheila going beserk with the gun was highly unlikely. The murderer must have had a vicious struggle with Neville Bamber but Sheila showed no signs of this. She had no signs of blood spatter on her other than her own. Despite having fired 25 rounds and having to reload at least twice she had perfectly manicured nails. She was very inexperienced with firearms yet managed to hit the target almost every time. So if we take the view that for this and other reasons she could not have committed the murders Jeremy by lying about receiving a phone call must have been the murderer. QED. The silencer evidence and Julie's testimony tie the whole thing together neatly. Circumstantial evidence is just that, but when so many pieces of evidence point to the same thing there are only so many coincidences that there could be. If Jeremy was not the murderer he is the unluckiest person in the world to have so many coincidental factors indicating his guilt.

We have been having a look at the case from the perspective of the defence and hard though we try there isn't any evidence which could in any way point to innocence.  All the evidence points to his guilt and his conniving  throughout the entire time of his incarceration.

It takes a certain breed of defence lawyer to have taken on this case since by all the factors it is doomed to failure.

[Matthew Wyse]

Thank you David. I think that a number of posters here are doing a great job debunking the campaign of misinformation put out by Bamber's supporters. IMO it is disgusting to see them continue to corrupt the memories of the VICTIMS of Bamber's slaughter . The latest rubbish on their forum includes the idea that June might also have played a role. I suppose that it will only be a matter of time before they try to blame the twins ! I see that Hartley and Bridget patiently slog away at trying to counter the absurd theorising on the Bamber forum but I fear that they are wasting their time as these people are so obsessed with the idea that Bamber is innocent that their minds are closed. They really ought to be ashamed of themselves for the way in which they defile the reputations of people who cannot answer back.

Absolutely Dillon, Hartley and Bridget are only fuelling the propaganda by encouraging them in such an apocryphal debate.

i have been thinking that for some time.    the blue forum has run its course and have exhausted each and every fantastic piece of new evidence or propaganda as it is better referred to.    stoking the fires will only prolong the agopny for the remaining family members.      in saying that though harltey and to a lesser extent vic should know better.   

[Admin]

I think shona has thought all along that Jeremy was guilty, Andrea changed her mind.

Hi ABS, If I got that wrong about Shona I am sorry but in monitoring the Bamber forum, I was impressed by Shona's courageous standing up for Sheila. I guess that you still feel that Sheila was capable of the murders.
From what I know, I think that the severity of her mental health problems has been much exagerated . She had quite a rough deal from her husband but I do not want to slag him off as he suffered a terrible loss. I know how difficult it is to bring up children as a single Mum, the more so with twins, so imo her mental health problems are understandable.  I also feel, having had plenty of dealings with psychiatrists, that some of their assessments should be treated with caution !  I suspect too that the bit about being the child of the Devil etc has been taken out of context. My understanding is that June found her in the field having sex with Colin not long after Sheila had already had a termination, so would not have needed to be hyper religious to be pretty cross 

I do respect the fact that you present your arguments in a couteous way but I really think that you need to consider how the forensic evidence makes it highly unlikely that she was the perpetrator.

I don´t know, it is in one of her psychiatrist´s medical reports about her. It also says that the twins - Nicholas in particular - was capable of having sex with her/rape her. They were six... How can that be taken out of context?
My mind is made up as far as the info I have seen - I am undecided as I was from day one. I haven´t seen anything to convince me that Jeremy did the murders (alone).
Anyway, it doesn´t really matter what I think! 

Oh but it does abs.  Your views are very important to us. 

Have you looked at the evidence in a cold clinical manner abs?  For example, do you agree that it had to have been Jeremy or Sheila who did it on the basis of the telephone call that Nevill was alleged to have made to both the police and to Jeremy.  Remember,  we are talking about no less than two calls here; two calls which were never recorded on any telecommunication equipment or received by any police officer.

[Matthew Wyse]

When I was new to the case at first I was shocked at the fact Bamber was convicted with so little direct evidence of his having been at the scene. However, the fact is either Bamber really did receive a phone call from his father in the middle of the night or he didn't. And if he didn't and he knew something was wrong at the farm then he must have been responsible. The story about Sheila going beserk with the gun was highly unlikely. The murderer must have had a vicious struggle with Neville Bamber but Sheila showed no signs of this. She had no signs of blood spatter on her other than her own. Despite having fired 25 rounds and having to reload at least twice she had perfectly manicured nails. She was very inexperienced with firearms yet managed to hit the target almost every time. So if we take the view that for this and other reasons she could not have committed the murders Jeremy by lying about receiving a phone call must have been the murderer. QED. The silencer evidence and Julie's testimony tie the whole thing together neatly. Circumstantial evidence is just that, but when so many pieces of evidence point to the same thing there are only so many coincidences that there could be. If Jeremy was not the murderer he is the unluckiest person in the world to have so many coincidental factors indicating his guilt.

We have been having a look at the case from the perspective of the defence and hard though we try there isn't any evidence which could in any way point to innocence.  All the evidence points to his guilt and his conniving  throughout the entire time of his incarceration.

It takes a certain breed of defence lawyer to have taken on this case since by all the factors it is doomed to failure.

not only that but take it on while not receiving legal aid.    just why would a lawyer who is already facing financial hardship take on such a flounder of a case on a pro bono basis??   8-)(--)

[Matthew Wyse]

Apart from Sheilas mental illness, what other evidence is there that Sheila carried out the shootings? None!

The mental illness sheila had doesnt make her a killer either, we only have jb's word that the discussion about the twins took place.

i have been looking at this and to be honest there isnt a scrap of any evidence which points to sheila being the shooter.  teh rifle being found lying across her chest was an obvious plant.....bamber must think we are all bloody stupid.     

[Matthew Wyse]

Apart from Sheilas mental illness, what other evidence is there that Sheila carried out the shootings? None!

The mental illness sheila had doesnt make her a killer either, we only have jb's word that the discussion about the twins took place.

There is no evidence that Jeremy did either.

P.S. The EP botched this investigation big time, 66 police officers are recorded at the scene with 49 of them stomping through the house while the bodies were still there.
Evidence was burned the day after the murders (and seriously, you can´t blame this one on Jeremy!). Remaining evidence was destroyed in 1996 (and I repeat, exactly in 1996 DNA science had taken major leaps forward, why on Earth destroy evidence exactly then?)
There is no way I can make up my mind either way with such a mishandled case and bungled (destroyed) evidence. It is all speculation - some of it fiction, really.

why do you keep saying that abs when it is not true.of course there is evidence that jeremy bamber was involved.are you saying that julie mugford made the entire tale up abs?

jeremy had the means, the motive and the opportunity to carry out the killings.
he had no alibi.
he knew that there was a weapon sitting waiting with plenty of ammunition.
he was well practiced with that rifle and knew how to use it with deadly accuracy.
he had the physical strength to tackle nevill when sheila most certainly did not.
he knew how to get into the farmhouse undetected and how to get out again making it appear that there had never been a break in.
he knew how to disable the alarm, no outsider would ever have known how to do that.
he made no effort to rush to the scene, so obvious was his need that the police arrive there first.
his actions following the murders were sinister, he couldn't even visit the mortuary and left identification to a virtual stranger.

[Dillon]

Thank you David. I think that a number of posters here are doing a great job debunking the campaign of misinformation put out by Bamber's supporters. IMO it is disgusting to see them continue to corrupt the memories of the VICTIMS of Bamber's slaughter . The latest rubbish on their forum includes the idea that June might also have played a role. I suppose that it will only be a matter of time before they try to blame the twins ! I see that Hartley and Bridget patiently slog away at trying to counter the absurd theorising on the Bamber forum but I fear that they are wasting their time as these people are so obsessed with the idea that Bamber is innocent that their minds are closed. They really ought to be ashamed of themselves for the way in which they defile the reputations of people who cannot answer back.

Absolutely Dillon, Hartley and Bridget are only fuelling the propaganda by encouraging them in such an apocryphal debate.

i have been thinking that for some time.    the blue forum has run its course and have exhausted each and every fantastic piece of new evidence or propaganda as it is better referred to.    stoking the fires will only prolong the agopny for the remaining family members.      in saying that though harltey and to a lesser extent vic should know better.   

  Well said Mark. Mr Teskowski the founder and owner of the blue forum has started yet another thread at 0454 this morning with the heading . SHEILA ATTEMPTED TO COMMIT SUICIDE ( BUT FAILED) AND WAS SHOT BY THE POLICE.   ( Just back from "work", Mike, or just going out ? )  It must be quite hard for the committed members of his forum to stick with it when their leader keeps repeating this sort of tripe. Time to give up , guys, let Bamber get on with serving his well deserved term and we can all finally let this case become history. You are not even doing Bamber any favours anyway as I am sure that he must feel that this crazy fantasy doesn't exactly benefit his cause.

[starryian]

When I was new to the case at first I was shocked at the fact Bamber was convicted with so little direct evidence of his having been at the scene. However, the fact is either Bamber really did receive a phone call from his father in the middle of the night or he didn't. And if he didn't and he knew something was wrong at the farm then he must have been responsible. The story about Sheila going beserk with the gun was highly unlikely. The murderer must have had a vicious struggle with Neville Bamber but Sheila showed no signs of this. She had no signs of blood spatter on her other than her own. Despite having fired 25 rounds and having to reload at least twice she had perfectly manicured nails. She was very inexperienced with firearms yet managed to hit the target almost every time. So if we take the view that for this and other reasons she could not have committed the murders Jeremy by lying about receiving a phone call must have been the murderer. QED. The silencer evidence and Julie's testimony tie the whole thing together neatly. Circumstantial evidence is just that, but when so many pieces of evidence point to the same thing there are only so many coincidences that there could be. If Jeremy was not the murderer he is the unluckiest person in the world to have so many coincidental factors indicating his guilt.

We have been having a look at the case from the perspective of the defence and hard though we try there isn't any evidence which could in any way point to innocence.  All the evidence points to his guilt and his conniving  throughout the entire time of his incarceration.

It takes a certain breed of defence lawyer to have taken on this case since by all the factors it is doomed to failure.

A very good point Admin,
I have looked hard - very hard - at the defense case - I have tried to view it as a Bamber supporter might. As a defense lawyer might by only putting forward points that exclude the possibility that Bamber is guilty. I looked at each and every point carefully and come to the conclusion that there is absolutely NOTHING of any substance there that would in any way suggest Bamber is innocent. In fact I found his arguments to be nothing more than strained constraints of the evidence. If you look at this case subjectively that was the only conclusion I could possibly come to. Sheila could not have committed the murders. If Sheila could not, Bamber MUST have.
If anyone can see any fault with that logic please feel free to debate and highlight your reasons why. I will be happy to engage in a discourse with you.

[goatboy]

Agreed, I have pretty much given up with the Blue forum now. For months I have been looking there to see some kind of sign of evidence that Bamber is innocent. They have nothing except wild speculation. If you suggest to them that Bamber left WHF in the evening in his car, came back on his bike, committed the murders then rode home they feel that is a far fetched story. Yet they don't have any problem believing that a slightly built woman could batter a man twice her size, fire twenty five rounds, kill four people and not have a mark on her, as well as try to shoot herself once, fail then run upstairs with a profusely bleeding throat wound and possibly even a broken neck,before shooting herself again. Why wasn't there a mark on her? Why, she had a shower of course. To be fair, even Tesko's most ardent followers were incredulous when he put forth the proposition that the barking noise heard by BT when they opened the phone line was Sheila. All they have is the possibility that documents which prove his innocence are being withheld under PII and that Essex police were engaged in a massive conspiracy to fit Jeremy up. Even though if they had wanted a result they could just have accepted the story Bamber had told them and that the scene of crime indicated that Sheila had killed everyone and committed suicide. The only things they have to attempt to prove Jeremy's innocence are the alleged movement at the window and the police log stating they were in conversation with an occupant of the house. Both of these have been proved to be misunderstandings. If the police really were in "conversation" with Sheila in the house surely the first thing they would have done was to get Jeremy, who was there by then, to speak to her. The fact that this did not happen suggests the "conversation" was merely a one way attempt by the police to communicate met with no response. And why did Jeremy not try to make more during his defence of the sighting of the "person" at the window which could have proved his innocence? He obviously knew there was nothing (or he pointed it out to the police to try to reinforce his story?).