The Lies of Jeremy Bamber

[cathiethesceptic]

Re NGB,I don't really think that he does believe in JB's innocence,not sure why I don't  -- just a gut feeling that an educated,articulate person must,on the whole find all these unsubstantiated and largely contradictory 'facts' and the alledged conspiracy which encompasses not only every EP officer of every rank,but all the relatives,every level of the judiciary etc etc just too far fetched to believe.Putit this way that £500k inheritance would have had to stretch a long way!
I tend to think,in the light of stuff about NGB's business activities,that JB is just 1 of a range of business opportunities that he has on the go  -- he may be happy to stake up front for some tests in Arizona,expecting an ample return on his investment if JB goes free. However,that could only come from film or book deals,as the recent Sion Jenkins ruling seems to rule out compensation unless you are proved'not guilty',not just that your conviction is unsafe  -- another thing which JB has not been apprised of by his defence team,as NJB was very recently claiming on the other forum that JB would be in line for millions in compo
Perhaps he has a more altruistic and morally good motivation.He may think that overturning JB's guilty verdict would lead to a massive and long overdue top to bottom overhall and robust critique of the whole criminal justice system in the UK,which cannot seem to offer speedy redress,or any redress in all too many cases to those who have been failed by it.David Jessell's recent article,criticising the CCRC in swingeing terms makes very allarming reading.Perhaps both NGB and S mckay think that JB,s release,even on a technicality,would deliver a massive broadside to the system,I but I can't help think that money is the more likely motivation for both

NGB 'gets up my nose',as you put it ,Dillon cos of the tone of his posts on the other forum.He obviously loves being the 'go to guy'for those who know nothing of the legal system,but when somebody like Hartley or Bridget makes an unassailable point he does seem to pretend to find it 'valid'or 'interesting' but then carries on as before,totally ignoring what has been said!!Also,his last refuge is always the CCRC's response document,which he has seen,but 'can't possibly divulge'. Well yes,but surely we're entitled to infer from that,that JB's submissions are mostly rubbish,given that mountains of utter balderdash are eagerly touted by his team in every possible outlet available to them!

Just one last thing, re the silencer.Is it possible that JB goes on and on about it cos he knows that his 2nd,fatal shot to Sheila, was after he had put it away,when he went to arrange the gun on her body,but realising she wasn't quite dead,unexpectedly had to shoot her again?Perhaps he has been led to believe that he only has to cast acertain amount of doubt on the use of the silencer for his convictionto be ruled unsafe

[starryian]

Excellent points Cathy,
I agree with you totally about the silencer. There is alot of truth in aold adage 'he protesteth too loudly'
Yes I think there is something in this course of enquiry. The points Bamber seems to object to rather vociferously are generally are the ones where the police were not too sure. The silencer being one of them. I suspect that you are correct. He took the silencer off the rifle and then shot Sheila again this time without it upon realising she was still alive.

[John]

Re NGB,I don't really think that he does believe in JB's innocence,not sure why I don't  -- just a gut feeling that an educated,articulate person must,on the whole find all these unsubstantiated and largely contradictory 'facts' and the alledged conspiracy which encompasses not only every EP officer of every rank,but all the relatives,every level of the judiciary etc etc just too far fetched to believe.Putit this way that £500k inheritance would have had to stretch a long way!
I tend to think,in the light of stuff about NGB's business activities,that JB is just 1 of a range of business opportunities that he has on the go  -- he may be happy to stake up front for some tests in Arizona,expecting an ample return on his investment if JB goes free. However,that could only come from film or book deals,as the recent Sion Jenkins ruling seems to rule out compensation unless you are proved'not guilty',not just that your conviction is unsafe  -- another thing which JB has not been apprised of by his defence team,as NJB was very recently claiming on the other forum that JB would be in line for millions in compo
Perhaps he has a more altruistic and morally good motivation.He may think that overturning JB's guilty verdict would lead to a massive and long overdue top to bottom overhall and robust critique of the whole criminal justice system in the UK,which cannot seem to offer speedy redress,or any redress in all too many cases to those who have been failed by it.David Jessell's recent article,criticising the CCRC in swingeing terms makes very allarming reading.Perhaps both NGB and S mckay think that JB,s release,even on a technicality,would deliver a massive broadside to the system,I but I can't help think that money is the more likely motivation for both

NGB 'gets up my nose',as you put it ,Dillon cos of the tone of his posts on the other forum.He obviously loves being the 'go to guy'for those who know nothing of the legal system,but when somebody like Hartley or Bridget makes an unassailable point he does seem to pretend to find it 'valid'or 'interesting' but then carries on as before,totally ignoring what has been said!!Also,his last refuge is always the CCRC's response document,which he has seen,but 'can't possibly divulge'. Well yes,but surely we're entitled to infer from that,that JB's submissions are mostly rubbish,given that mountains of utter balderdash are eagerly touted by his team in every possible outlet available to them!

Just one last thing, re the silencer.Is it possible that JB goes on and on about it cos he knows that his 2nd,fatal shot to Sheila, was after he had put it away,when he went to arrange the gun on her body,but realising she wasn't quite dead,unexpectedly had to shoot her again?Perhaps he has been led to believe that he only has to cast acertain amount of doubt on the use of the silencer for his convictionto be ruled unsafe

I am inclined to go with much that you post Cathy.  I also feel that the motivation is financial since Neil's days as a Barrister are long gone as is his credibility.  I will go further, there are a lot of people out there who would happily string him up for what he did to the property and aviation businesses he headed which saw many of them on the scrap heap permanently.  You only need to read the professional pilots forum to see how much the Bellis' are hated.

Your last point about shooting her without the silencer is spot on.  Only Jeremy Bamber knows if this did in fact happen but there is every reason to suspect it did.

[Joanne]

You know appeals, he seems to have had quite a few and my understanding is that you have one when new evidence comes to light or something, how does he keep getting so many appeals and now he can't have another, what happens now? Does he just stay where he is forever?

[John]

You know appeals, he seems to have had quite a few and my understanding is that you have one when new evidence comes to light or something, how does he keep getting so many appeals and now he can't have another, what happens now? Does he just stay where he is forever?

At the moment the High Court is deciding whether to make the CCRC review the evidence again, this is what is called a Judicial Review.  If they instruct the CCRC to do so they will have to review the case again but they may come right back with the same decision.  That is their prerogative.

If the High Court decide that the CCRC did a good enough job and deny the Judicial Review then Bamber has only one option in the absence of any real new evidence and that is the European Court on the basis of some obscure challenge to breaches of his human rights.

In a nutshell, if the Review fails it is curtains for JB !!

[Matthew Wyse]

You know appeals, he seems to have had quite a few and my understanding is that you have one when new evidence comes to light or something, how does he keep getting so many appeals and now he can't have another, what happens now? Does he just stay where he is forever?

At the moment the High Court is deciding whether to make the CCRC review the evidence again, this is what is called a Judicial Review.  If they instruct the CCRC to do so they will have to review the case again but they may come right back with the same decision.  That is their prerogative.

If the High Court decide that the CCRC did a good enough job and deny the Judicial Review then Bamber has only one option in the absence of any real new evidence and that is the European Court on the basis of some obscure challenge to breaches of his human rights.

In a nutshell, if the Review fails it is curtains for JB.

8-)(--)    IMO the court wont challange the ccrc decision because there just isnt any real new evidence to go on.the stuff about the silencer is just hogwash and pollyfilla.   

[Joanne]

Thank you.

[Myster]

Just one last thing, re the silencer.Is it possible that JB goes on and on about it cos he knows that his 2nd,fatal shot to Sheila, was after he had put it away,when he went to arrange the gun on her body,but realising she wasn't quite dead,unexpectedly had to shoot her again?Perhaps he has been led to believe that he only has to cast acertain amount of doubt on the use of the silencer for his convictionto be ruled unsafe

I think the moderator was replaced in the gun cupboard after she had been shot both times, cathie.
According to Vanezis' comments below, both wounds were received within a short space of time of each other..,
which gives little leeway for Bamber to remove it, clean it, return it downstairs to the cupboard, and come back up again to set up the rifle.

And without the moderator, there were no blood traces from blowback on the end or inside the barrel of the rifle.

Good post overall by the way! 

[cathiethesceptic]

Cheers Myster!

I see what you mean,so maybe JB had taken the moderator off after the 1st shot cos he had realised that the rifle was too long for suicide to be plausible,andwas just about to lay the rifle on Sheila,when he realised she was still just about alive,so delivered her the coup de grace.In this way you have the necessary blood bits from the 1st shot with the moderator on,and the necessary few seconds gap between the 2 shots for the path report.Only then did JB clean up the moderator with half Tampax and put it away in the cupboard
Does that work for you??

[goatboy]

The second time Sheila was shot there would have been no need for a silencer-I'm pretty sure the second shot would have been the last time Jeremy fired the rifle so with no one else alive there would have been no need to reduce the noise.

[ActualMat]

You know appeals, he seems to have had quite a few and my understanding is that you have one when new evidence comes to light or something, how does he keep getting so many appeals and now he can't have another, what happens now? Does he just stay where he is forever?

At the moment the High Court is deciding whether to make the CCRC review the evidence again, this is what is called a Judicial Review.  If they instruct the CCRC to do so they will have to review the case again but they may come right back with the same decision.  That is their prerogative.

If the High Court decide that the CCRC did a good enough job and deny the Judicial Review then Bamber has only one option in the absence of any real new evidence and that is the European Court on the basis of some obscure challenge to breaches of his human rights.

In a nutshell, if the Review fails it is curtains for JB !!

It truly is, some people don't fully graps the enormity of this JR. If they don't refer the case back to the CCRC, even if they do and the CCRC stick to their decison it truly will be all over for Bamber. They will struggle to get the EC to change anything on a humans rights level - Bamber has to be losing sleep right now.

[Dillon]

Cath. Thank you for your response to my post of yesterday re NGB's motivation. I was being a tiny bit tongue in cheek and I hope that you do not think that I was getting at you. He gets up my nose too ! I don't go with the altruistic option. However, his posts are usually polite and literate so he appears to have more credibility then some of the other Bamber forum posters who seem to get quite agitated at the suggestion that their icon might not be the innocent victim of the greatest MOJ ever.

As for the silencer being on or off for the final shot to Sheila I do not know. Myster makes a good point. I bet by then Bamber was finding it hard to think straight. Absolute mayhem. His big lie to use Sheila as the scapegoat depended on the availability of the .22 but then he found that multiple shots were required to slaughter his victims
and worse still his father was still alive. He must have been in a desperate state of mind having to resort to battering Nevill into unconsciousness with the butt of the rifle . The great plan was falling apart by that stage and if he really was wearing a wetsuit, which personally I doubt, he would have been in a lather of sweat and finding hard to think straight. I doubt if by then he would have been capable of cooly calculating his next move. IMO but only Bamber knows.

[starryian]

Cheers Myster!

I see what you mean,so maybe JB had taken the moderator off after the 1st shot cos he had realised that the rifle was too long for suicide to be plausible,andwas just about to lay the rifle on Sheila,when he realised she was still just about alive,so delivered her the coup de grace.In this way you have the necessary blood bits from the 1st shot with the moderator on,and the necessary few seconds gap between the 2 shots for the path report.Only then did JB clean up the moderator with half Tampax and put it away in the cupboard
Does that work for you??

She could have been shot twice in the time it took Bamber to remove the silencer and shoot her again without it. Sheila had oral hemorrhaging that was very confined. The more extensive the hemorrhaging, the more time would have elapsed between shots - this led pathologist Peter Venezes to conclude the shots much have been pretty close to each other. A very sound conclusion. But this could have meant maybe up to a minute or two. More than enough time to unscrew the moderator, realise Sheila was still alive and then swiftly shoot her again - this time without the moderator. I hope this helps Cathy?

[starryian]

The second time Sheila was shot there would have been no need for a silencer-I'm pretty sure the second shot would have been the last time Jeremy fired the rifle so with no one else alive there would have been no need to reduce the noise.

Excellent observation. Top rank Goatboy. I didnt think of that. 

[Myster]

Cheers Myster!

I see what you mean,so maybe JB had taken the moderator off after the 1st shot cos he had realised that the rifle was too long for suicide to be plausible,andwas just about to lay the rifle on Sheila,when he realised she was still just about alive,so delivered her the coup de grace.In this way you have the necessary blood bits from the 1st shot with the moderator on,and the necessary few seconds gap between the 2 shots for the path report.Only then did JB clean up the moderator with half Tampax and put it away in the cupboard
Does that work for you??

Nearly!  What I was trying to say was that he didn't remove it until after both shots..., because there were no blood traces on the end or inside the barrel of the rifle without the moderator fitted.