Could more have been done to preserve a potential crime scene?

[Brietta]

He was the coordinator, and therefore gave instructions to other people to do their jobs.

Do you have a problem with that ?

Once again you have lost me, Stephen.

The discussion was whether the senior officer in charge should have taken overall control of the situation or whether it was more important for him to join the rest of the searchers.

You appear to agree with me on this one … so I don’t really have a problem ... but for the fact we are off topic again because I picked up on this from a point in pegasus's post which was on topic.

 - clipped - Searching was the top priority, and that is what the Lagos GNR post commander did. To see him criticised for it surprises me.http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=4767.msg173853#msg173853

[pegasus]

The reason the GNR Lagos commander prioritised searching over staying at the apartment is, in his own words
"His hope was that the child had left the apartment alone and got lost or that someone had seen her and stayed with her temporarily."
I find the ingratitude shown by some to this man surprising.
I would remind you that he he was still searching until
"between 05.30 and 06.00"
If the ingratitude persists I will be asking, while this devoted GNR commander was out searching for the girl contimuously until 5.30 or 6,  which other person was taking the alternative approach "we need to get some rest" ?

[sadie]

The reason the GNR Lagos commander prioritised searching over staying at the apartment is, in his own words
"His hope was that the child had left the apartment alone and got lost or that someone had seen her and stayed with her temporarily."
I find the ingratitude shown by some to this man surprising.
I would remind you that he he was still searching until
"between 05.30 and 06.00"
If the ingratitude persists I will be asking, while this devoted GNR commander was out searching for the girl contimuously until 5.30 or 6,  which other person was taking the alternative approach "we need to get some rest" ?

Was this the officer, whose report to Amaral about his feelings re The Mccanns made Amaral think they were responsible/ involved?

Cos if it was, he wasn't looking for a living Madeleine by the sounds of things.

After a brief initial search, he should have preserved the crime scene and taken charge, imo.  As Brietta points out, there were things for him to organise like arranging for the family to move out, securing the crime scene, .... and taking statements from everyone around.

He should have allocated certain areas for certain people to search etc., again as Brietta pointed out.


But in all fairness, I doubt that he had ever encounterd an abducted little girl before .... and he went with the flow, by the sounds of thngs.  Anyone who searched for an extended period should be admired, but I think in the panic of the moment he got his priorities wrong.  An understandable error.

[pegasus]

Was this the officer, whose report to Amaral about his feelings re The Mccanns made Amaral think they were responsible/ involved?

Cos if it was, he wasn't looking for a living Madeleine by the sounds of things.

After a brief initial search, he should have preserved the crime scene and taken charge, imo.  As Carana points out, there were things for him to organise like arranging for the family to move out, securing the crime scene, .... and taking statements from everyone around.

He should have allocated certain areas for certain people to search etc., again as Carana pointed out.


But in all fairness, I doubt that he had ever encounterd an abducted little girl before .... and he went with the flow, by the sounds of thngs.  Anyone who searched for an extended period should be admired, but I think in the panic of the moment he got his priorities wrong.  An understandable error.

I think he did the right thing - to search.
It was possible a 3-yr-old child was out there alone on the streets - it would have been very wrong to not to search for her.
SO now let's compare Duarte's approach, so ungratefully treated by some, with an alternative approach.
Can you answer this?
While Duarte was actually out searching the town, who was simultaneously saying "we need to get some rest" ?

[sadie]

I think he did the right thing - to search.
It was possible a 3-yr-old child was out there alone on the streets - it would have been very wrong to not to search for her.
SO now let's compare Duarte's approach, so ungratefully treated by some, with an alternative approach.
Can you answer this?
While Duarte was actually out searching the town, who was simultaneously saying "we need to get some rest" ?

Pegasus, I think you must be very young and very unscathed by life

Have you no idea just what had happened would do to the Mccanns ?

They would be emotionally drained and totally exhausted by it all


When my little boy was dying, I used to flop on the carpet and drop off to sleep in a flash, face down.  Something I could not do normally, cos it would be hard and hurt my boobs terribly.

The emotional trauma just blanked me out.

[Montclair]

Pegasus, I think you must be very young and very unscathed by life

Have you no idea just what had happened would do to the Mccanns ?

They would be emotionally drained and totally exhausted by it all


When my little boy was dying, I used to flop on the carpet and drop off to sleep in a flash, face down.  Something I could not do normally, cos it would be hard and hurt my boobs terribly.

The emotional trauma just blanked me out.

I'm so sorry that you had to go through seeing your little boy die.

When your child is missing the adrenaline pumps in your body and you are out there searching, not resting, because you need to know what has happened. Often, when someone has committed a crime, during the act the adrenaline is going at full speed but then afterwards it stops rushing through that person's body, exhaustion sets in and they often fall asleep, for example during a police interrogation.

[John]

The original GNR more senior officer took a dislike to The Mccanns and it appears suspected them immediately, because they didn't react as he expected (in his limited knowledge of abductions ! ).

If that were the case, should he have secured the apartment immediately?  I think so.

Sadie, what do you know of the senior GNR officers professional experience to make such a claim? 

The GNR acted correctly imo, they conducted a search and then called in the PJ which was what their protocol required. If the GNR were to isolate every house and apartment that a toddler routinely goes missing from there would be uproar.

But in all fairness, I doubt that he had ever encountered an abducted little girl before.... and he went with the flow, by the sounds of thngs.  Anyone who searched for an extended period should be admired, but I think in the panic of the moment he got his priorities wrong.  An understandable error.

Again you are making assumptions about a senior police officer without any evidence.   We have rules about these things Sadie.

[John]

After a brief initial search, he should have preserved the crime scene and taken charge, imo.  As Brietta points out, there were things for him to organise like arranging for the family to move out, securing the crime scene, .... and taking statements from everyone around.

He should have allocated certain areas for certain people to search etc., again as Brietta pointed out.

What crime scene?  They were looking for a toddler reported missing.  No evidence of a break in and no evidence of a struggle in the bedroom thus no reason to designate it a crime.  Best stick to engineering Sadie and leave the policing issues to those who have actually practised it.

[sadie]

What crime scene?  They were looking for a toddler reported missing.  No evidence of a break in and no evidence of a struggle in the bedroom thus no reason to designate it a crime.  Best stick to engineering Sadie and leave the policing issues to those who have actually practised it.

NO evidence !!!

The bludy window was open and the shutters raised ! 

[John]

NO evidence !!!

The bludy window was open and the shutters raised ! 

An open window and shutter is not proof of an abduction since anyone could have opened them.  Why bother to search the grounds at all if the child had been abducted?

They were initially searching for a wandered child, they were not seeking an abducted child...big difference!

[Matthew Wyse]

there are far to many myths about already in this case so cheers for taking a stand against yet more speculations and for what its worth I think the police were right to carry out a search of the vicinity before getting the big cheeses involved.   Wouldn't they have looked like right plonkers if she had been found hiding nearby??

[Brietta]

 -- SNIPPED --
One of the Guarda Nacional Republicana agents who was first to arrive at the resort in Praia da Luz and at the McCann couple’s apartment is suspected of having received over 120 thousand euros of “live” money, a short time after Maddie’s disappearance.
This GNR officer is essential to the entire investigation, given the fact that he was among the first to arrive at the location where the little girl disappeared, and also one of the first people to get into contact with the parents.

TVI has established that the case of the sudden 120 thousand euros in the GNR officer’s hands is being investigated by the Polícia Judiciária (PJ).

On the night that Maddie McCann disappeared, the first authorities to arrive on location were the GNR officers. It was their task to search the apartment, to perform the initial searches, to speak with the McCann couple, and to direct the searches on the beach and in the village, namely the open areas where sewer and piping works were under way, only tens of metres away from the resort that the British family had booked for their holidays.

TVI knows that one of the first agents that took care of the event is being targeted by an inquiry. The issue is an amount of over 120 thousand euros that were received in cash, on two bank accounts under his name, one of which at Caixa Geral de Depósitos. The most serious coincidence is that the money started being deposited, on those accounts, only a short time after the disappearance of little Madeleine McCann.

This amount is much higher than that of a GNR officer’s salary and was deposited on “live” money, according to investigation sources, in parts of over 10 thousand euros.

Officer denies deposits

The investigation into these deposits is being carried out by DCICCEF [Central Directory for the Investigation of Corruption and Economical and Financial Crime], which tries to understand the reasons for these payments.
Even if their illegality is proved, a connection to the Maddie case may not exist, despite the strong temporal coincidence and the high amount of money.

Contacted by TVI, the officer denied the existence of said deposits, having offered the possibility that his name was unduly used to open those accounts. Police sources in the area manifested their strangeness concerning the possibility that this officer, whom they consider of honest reputation, could be involved in illegal actions.  http://joana-morais.blogspot.com/2009/06/maddie-case-gnr-suspect-of-receiveing.html

We know that similar accusations of illegal deposits using other people's accounts wihout their knowledge were made in a football corruption case.

Does anyone know what was the outcome of the investigation into this officer's finances: extraordinary that he was one of the first officers on the scene.

[Brietta]

I don't think there would be much experience of child abduction cases whether by family or stranger among the ranks of ordinary coppers whatever their nationality.  Usually specialists would be called in to investigate a case like Madeleine's.

Since her disappearance a great deal has been learned from America where unfortunately cases like this are not so rare; resulting in a European wide alert sytem being introduced to cover Europe.

So shortfalls have been recognised and are being addressed both here and in Europe; possibly the only positive thing to come out of Madeleine's case and something her parents have worked hard in support of.

[John]

The original GNR more senior officer took a dislike to The Mccanns and it appears suspected them immediately, because they didn't react as he expected (in his limited knowledge of abductions ! ).

If that were the case, should he have secured the apartment immediately?  I think so.

Sadie, could we clarify who you are talking about in this post because I fear some members are posting about the wrong officer.

To clarify, the first two GNR officers on the scene (approx 11pm) were Corporal Roque and his junior colleague Officer Nelson Costa.  They were joined at about 11.50pm by the watch commander from Lagos, Sgt Conceicao Duarte.

PS  It was Corporal (Cabo) Roque who was mentioned in the bank story.

PPS  Off topic posts will be removed.

[Angelo222]

Sadie must be one of the worst offenders for taking threads of at a tangent so no wonder she gets so many deleted.  I don't know how the editors keep up sometimes. >@@(*&)

Seems the story about Cpl Roque came to nothing after all said and done.