Should we have the Death Penalty - POLL

[Admin]

Just to remind everyone that Joanne's poll on the death penalty had two days to run. 

Please feel free to vote and/or comment if you are a member.

[Jerry]

I didn't know there was such a poll so thanks for bringing it to my attention.  I personally believe there should be a death penatly for those who are of sound mind and who have accepted their crime and wish this punishment as an alternative to life in prison.  I don't think one human being has the right to take the life of another human being regardless.

[sika]

What gives anyone the right to take the life of another?

Two wrongs and all that......

[Mr Justice K]

Thank you for all of your votes and comments, it's been interesting for me.

An interesting divide on the vote Joanne for which I am not entirely surprised.  Many people are totally against capital punishment irrespective of the circumstances whilst others are a little more flexible.  It does seem clear though that few are totally supportive of it which in itself says something of our society.

[starryian]

Indeed a thorny area,
I think this question is one society had struggled with ad infinitum. I believe that it boils down to individual viewpoint and moral stance on the world or the prevailing political climate - neither of which serves wider society as a whole. Capital punishment is often seen as a political instrument, a tool in order to reinforce or prop-up a regime.
Other see it as a form of revenge that society can mete out to its miscreants, while others are more pragmatic and feel that to imprison a human being for their lifespan is, in itself, inhuman and therefore opt for the death penalty as a cheaper and more practical alternative. However, there are those that argue that to keep some people alive endangers the lives of others that may be incarcerated alongside them.
Personally I am against such punishment for several key reasons. Firstly, I feel that state sanctioned murder is almost always left in the hands of ambitious and duplicitious politicians we run the risk of them using it for their own ends - as seen in America in the never-ending battle to appear 'tough' and trying to win popular support with certain sections of society. Secondly, I feel that if the death sentence was on the statute books in this country we as human beings would lose the opportunity to find out exactly how and why these type of offenses are committed. We would lose the opportunity to study murderers and the like and find out what the triggers were, and perhaps more importantly, how do we stop this from happening again. I would argue that if we put these individuals to death we will not learn the dreadful lessons from them but run the very real risk of watching them being repeated.
Then there is also the spectre of Derek Bentley, Ruth Ellis and Timothy Evans to remind us that any system we may put in place is very, very fallible.

[Admin]

Indeed a thorny area,
I think this question is one society had struggled with ad infinitum. I believe that it boils down to individual viewpoint and moral stance on the world or the prevailing political climate - neither of which serves wider society as a whole. Capital punishment is often seen as a political instrument, a tool in order to reinforce or prop-up a regime.
Other see it as a form of revenge that society metes out to its miscreants, while others are more pragmatic and feel that to imprison a human being for their lifespan is, in itself, inhuman and therefore opt for the death penalty as a cheaper and more practical alternative. However, there are those that argue that to keep some people alive endangers the lives of others that may be incarcerated alongside them.
Personally I am against such punishment for several key reasons. Firstly, I feel that state sanctioned murder is left in the hands of ambitious and duplicitious politicians we run the risk of them using it for their own ends - as seen in America in the never-ending battle to appear 'tough' and trying to win popular support with certain sections of society. Secondly, I feel that if the death sentence was on the statute books we as human beings would lose the opportunity to find out exactly how and why these type of offenses are committed. We would lose the opportunity to study intentional murderers and find out what the triggers were, and perhaps more importantly, how do we stop this from happening again. I would argue that if we put these individuals to death we will not learn the dreadful lessons from them but run the very real risk of watching them being repeated.

Thank you for that Ian.

Capital Punishment is indeed a thorny issue.  It is promoted by the US Government and many of the States as a means to counter the ever growing number of murders and murder related crime in the country but the statistics disprove this.   There are two types of murder which doesn't help matters.  There is the premeditated murder where the perpertartor set out to kill and then there is the 'in the heat of the moment' or passion killing.  Undoubtedely, a judge will take the circumstances of each and every murder into account when handing down a death sentence.  It is often the case that the threat of a death sentence leads to a plea bargain resulting in a death sentence being commuted to life imprisonment.

At the end of the day there is no easy answer to this question but we do agree that killing another human being for whatever reason is unacceptable and barbarian.

[starryian]

Indeed a thorny area,
I think this question is one society had struggled with ad infinitum. I believe that it boils down to individual viewpoint and moral stance on the world or the prevailing political climate - neither of which serves wider society as a whole. Capital punishment is often seen as a political instrument, a tool in order to reinforce or prop-up a regime.
Other see it as a form of revenge that society metes out to its miscreants, while others are more pragmatic and feel that to imprison a human being for their lifespan is, in itself, inhuman and therefore opt for the death penalty as a cheaper and more practical alternative. However, there are those that argue that to keep some people alive endangers the lives of others that may be incarcerated alongside them.
Personally I am against such punishment for several key reasons. Firstly, I feel that state sanctioned murder is left in the hands of ambitious and duplicitious politicians we run the risk of them using it for their own ends - as seen in America in the never-ending battle to appear 'tough' and trying to win popular support with certain sections of society. Secondly, I feel that if the death sentence was on the statute books we as human beings would lose the opportunity to find out exactly how and why these type of offenses are committed. We would lose the opportunity to study intentional murderers and find out what the triggers were, and perhaps more importantly, how do we stop this from happening again. I would argue that if we put these individuals to death we will not learn the dreadful lessons from them but run the very real risk of watching them being repeated.

Thank you for that Ian.

Capital Punishment is indeed a thorny issue.  It is promoted by the US Government and many of the States as a means to counter the ever growing number of murders and murder related crime in the country but the statistics disprove this.   There are two types of murder which doesn't help matters.  There is the premeditated murder where the perpertartor set out to kill and then there is the 'in the heat of the moment' or passion killing.  Undoubtedely, a judge will take the circumstances of each and every murder into account when handing down a death sentence.  It is often the case that the threat of a death sentence leads to a plea bargain resulting in a death sentence being commuted to life imprisonment.

At the end of the day there is no easy answer to this question but we do agree that killing another human being for whatever reason is unacceptable and barbarian.

Absolutely Admin..I concur.
The state of Texas has a regular supply of murderers to put to death. Texas has been the most vociferous in handed out this particular punishment, but it doesn't seemed to have any effect on the the numbers of people actually committing murder.

The following crimes are Capital offenses in Texas:
•murder of a peace officer or fireman who is acting in the lawful discharge of an official duty and who the person knows is a peace officer or fireman;
• murder during the commission or attempted commission of kidnapping, burglary, robbery, aggravated sexual assault, arson, obstruction or retaliation, or terroristic threat;
• murder for remuneration or promise of remuneration or employs another to commit murder for remuneration or promise of remuneration;
• murder during escape or attempted escape from a penal institution;
• murder, while incarcerated in a penal institution, of a correctional employee or with the intent to establish, maintain, or participate in a combination or in the profits of a combination;
• murder while incarcerated in a penal institution for a conviction of murder or capital murder;
• murder while incarcerated in a penal institution serving a life sentence or a 99 year sentence for a conviction of aggravated kidnapping, aggravated sexual assault, or aggravated robbery;
• murder of more than one person during the same criminal transaction or during different criminal transactions but the murders are committed pursuant to the same scheme or course of conduct;
• murder of an individual under ten years of age; or
• murder in retaliation for or on account of the service or status of the other person as a judge or justice of the supreme court, the court of criminal appeals, a court of appeals, a district court, a criminal district court, a constitutional county court, a statutory county court, a justice court, or a municipal court.

An interesting list. Texas also seems to enjoy encouraging local people to ask questions about capital punishment in the state. Here is an except of what I found on a Texas government website.

Does my state have the death penalty?
 Yes, Texas has executed a total of 357 people since 1976.

What is my governor's position on the death penalty?
 Texas Governor Rick Perry strongly favors the death penalty. Perry executed Mexican prisoner Javier Suarez Medina in 2002 despite pleas from Mexican President Fox asking for a reprieve.

How many people are on Death Row in my state?
 Of the 413 Death Row prisoners, 170 are black, 127 are white, 112 are Latino and 4 are Asian. Of the 413 Death Row prisoners, 10 of them are women.

Makes grim reading doesnt it? Remember also that we are looking here at a state that openly promotes the use of guns. Texas has some of the most liberal gun laws found anywhere in the western world. In fact all you need to purchase a gun in Texas is a drivers license and be over the age of 18.

[only me]

I'll never forget the first time I watched "Bowling for Columbine", and watched Michael Moore receive a free gun for opening a bank account in Colorado.  They actually had a catalogue for customers to pick from, and when they'd chosen the firearm that they wanted, the bank clerk popped down to the safe and handed it to them.  Yes, handed the customer a gun.  In a bank.   8-)(--)

[John]

I'll never forget the first time I watched "Bowling for Columbine", and watched Michael Moore receive a free gun for opening a bank account in Colorado.  They actually had a catalogue for customers to pick from, and when they'd chosen the firearm that they wanted, the bank clerk popped down to the safe and handed it to them.  Yes, handed the customer a gun.  In a bank.   8-)(--)

The American Dream!       
                                                                                             

[starryian]

I'll never forget the first time I watched "Bowling for Columbine", and watched Michael Moore receive a free gun for opening a bank account in Colorado.  They actually had a catalogue for customers to pick from, and when they'd chosen the firearm that they wanted, the bank clerk popped down to the safe and handed it to them.  Yes, handed the customer a gun.  In a bank.   8-)(--)

The American Dream!       
                                                                                             

Nothing surprises me about that nation. The word hypocrisy doesnt seem to register there. A nation that spawned the language of political correctness, a set of euphemisms that ensured there was anything but a 'debate' A nation that insists on the 'Right to bear arms against a tyrannical government' including boys not much older than children who then proceed to blast a defenseless animal to pieces with it.
 Claims that 'anyone can be president' but forgot to add that you must be wealthy and - with the one exception of Barrack Obama - preferably male and white. Plea bargains that sound just that.......bargains. A nation that will happily allow some of the most gratuitously violent acts imaginable to become ....erm ...'entertainment' while at the same time banning an actor from smoking a cigarette on screen. Allows slick money-mongers to become TV evangelists and amass huge personal fortunes by preying on those that need them most. A nation with an obesity epidemic whose restaurants offer a 'dietary snack' consisting of 'sugar-frosted honey-coated deep-fat-fried cheese sticks - and a erm.....Diet Coke'
A nation that is slowly morphing into the hero-worshipping of it's own image .
Ladies and gentlemen........welcome to America. The home of the brave and the land of the.........erm.....'free'   

   



Yeah, let's kick some Equs Asinus!

[John]

It looks like the yes, in some circumstances have it by one vote.   Is that what you expected Joanne?

[puglove]

It looks like the yes, in some circumstances have it by one vote.   Is that what you expected Joanne?

I don't think that I could ever agree with a death penalty. I hope I'm never in the position to doubt that.

[starryian]

I think I generally expected people not to agree with it at all or go for it all the way. I thought it might provide extreme views but I did forget this is a sensible site. I'm used to the gathering of many idiots who don't really think, show's the calibre of sites I've previously been on. 

Joanne, thank you for posing the question. It certainly highlights the high-calibre of posters on this site. The arguments are fluid, succinct and very honest. I have a feeling that you just wouldnt get that kind of honesty on some other sites.
Thanks again Joanne and keep the moral dillema's coming.    

[devils advocate]

I think I generally expected people not to agree with it at all or go for it all the way. I thought it might provide extreme views but I did forget this is a sensible site. I'm used to the gathering of many idiots who don't really think, show's the calibre of sites I've previously been on. 

Joanne, thank you for posing the question. It certainly highlights the high-calibre of posters on this site. The arguments are fluid, succinct and very honest. I have a feeling that you just wouldnt get that kind of honesty on some other sites.
Thanks again Joanne and keep the moral dillema's coming.    

I never saw that poll unfortunately but I don't agree with capital punishment in any event in any circumsatances.  I view life as sacracent and not something to be taken too lightly.  I don't believe we as humans have the right to take the life of another human being.

[starryian]

Good points,
However, the problem exists of people deliberately taking another life in order to end their own. This has happened in the past.  An example that springs to mind is that of American Gary Gilmore, a double-murderer who, instead of having the guts to take his own life, senselessly murderered two innocent people in the course of two robberies so that the state would kill him and do the job for him. He was a depressive, neurotic yet highly intelligent man who was also an habitual criminal with a history of being in and out of prison most of his life.
One wonders how many others have taken this unbelievably cowardly route to their own deaths? Those against the death penalty have argued that cases such as this were nothing more than state sponsored suicide. The debate continues...