Are miscarriages of justice in Portugal as rare as hens teeth?

[Mr Gray]

According to Montclair no one has successfully shown a miscarriage of justice in Portugal in 30 years...I would rather live in a system where the court admits mistakes

[faithlilly]

According to Montclair no one has successfully shown a miscarriage of justice in Portugal in 30 years...I would rather live in a system where the court admits mistakes

The courts in this country certainly don't admit mistakes willingly, as John will concur.

[Montclair]

According to Montclair no one has successfully shown a miscarriage of justice in Portugal in 30 years...I would rather live in a system where the court admits mistakes

Why do you keep repeating this when this is not what I said? I see my previous reply was deleted. In Portugal, there is an appeals system and people have seen their sentences reduced or verdicts overturned but miscarriages of justices as you see in the UK, I am not aware of. This could be due to the fact that the justice system is based more on redemption and rehabilitation of the criminals than on punishment. JMO. Also, each crime has its respective sentencing, minimum and maximum, stipulated in the law and the sentences are not at the discretion of the judge. You can't get years in prison for stealing a bottle of water during some riots, as was the case in London. There are no life sentences in Portugal and the most anyone can get is 25 years, whether you murder one person or twenty!

[Benice]

Why do you keep repeating this when this is not what I said? I see my previous reply was deleted. In Portugal, there is an appeals system and people have seen their sentences reduced or verdicts overturned but miscarriages of justices as you see in the UK, I am not aware of. This could be due to the fact that the justice system is based more on redemption and rehabilitation of the criminals than on punishment. JMO. Also, each crime has its respective sentencing, minimum and maximum, stipulated in the law and the sentences are not at the discretion of the judge. You can't get years in prison for stealing a bottle of water during some riots, as was the case in London. There are no life sentences in Portugal and the most anyone can get is 25 years, whether you murder one person or twenty!

So on what grounds would verdicts be overturned?   Surely there can only be one reason - and that is the person was wrongly convicted in the first place.     IOW a miscarriage of justice had occurred.

[Eleanor]

So on what grounds would verdicts be overturned?   Surely there can only be one reason - and that is the person was wrongly convicted in the first place.     IOW a miscarriage of justice had occurred.

I don't think that Portugal is all that keen on admitting Wrongful Conviction.  A bit like America.  The person was rightfully convicted on the evidence.  Proving that the evidence was flawed is a whole new ball game since most, if not all appeals are only considered on Points of Law.  And only Judges can decide that.

It's a dog's breakfast.

[Mr Gray]

Why do you keep repeating this when this is not what I said? I see my previous reply was deleted. In Portugal, there is an appeals system and people have seen their sentences reduced or verdicts overturned but miscarriages of justices as you see in the UK, I am not aware of. This could be due to the fact that the justice system is based more on redemption and rehabilitation of the criminals than on punishment. JMO. Also, each crime has its respective sentencing, minimum and maximum, stipulated in the law and the sentences are not at the discretion of the judge. You can't get years in prison for stealing a bottle of water during some riots, as was the case in London. There are no life sentences in Portugal and the most anyone can get is 25 years, whether you murder one person or twenty!

perhaps you could give us some examples of convictions being overturned

[Mr Gray]

The courts in this country certainly don't admit mistakes willingly, as John will concur.

no they have to evidence and they abide by that evidence

[Eleanor]

no they have to evidence and they abide by that evidence

Which has been known to be flawed.

[Mr Gray]

I see Montclair is online...perhaps he could give us some examples of successful appeals to settle the question

[sadie]

I see Montclair is online...perhaps he could give us some examples of successful appeals to settle the question

Oh it didn't take him long to vanish again!

Perhaps he will come back and give us some examples of successful appeals to settle the question as you asked him?



Let's wait a while .... and see how many he comes up with

[Alice Purjorick]

I would not know whether or not Montclair is correct, however is this a function of an inquisitorial legal system leading to fewer if any miscarriages of justice generally rather than only in Portugal?. "Do inquisitorial legal systems lead to fewer miscarriages of justice than adversarial systems?". That might be a more realistic way of looking at it rather than Portugal v UK. At least then the emotion and partisanship will be reduced and a more objective debate will ensue; perhaps! Extending from that is how can one know "there never has been a miscarriage of justice"; one can only know with any degree of certainty whether or not one has been brought to light which is quite a different proposition. There is also the matter in any system of "conviction unsafe" not being the same as "not guilty" in the strictest terms.
Well my dears there is something to ponder upon.

[Mr Gray]

I would not know whether or not Montclair is correct, however is this a function of an inquisitorial legal system leading to fewer if any miscarriages of justice generally rather than only in Portugal?. "Do inquisitorial legal systems lead to fewer miscarriages of justice than adversarial systems?". That might be a more realistic way of looking at it rather than Portugal v UK. At least then the emotion and partisanship will be reduced and a more objective debate will ensue; perhaps! Extending from that is how can one know "there never has been a miscarriage of justice"; one can only know with any degree of certainty whether or not one has been brought to light which is quite a different proposition. There is also the matter in any system of "conviction unsafe" not being the same as "not guilty" in the strictest terms.
Well my dears there is something to ponder upon.

My question to Montclair is based on a post he made where he said he had not heard of a successful miscarriage of justice case in Portugal in the last 30 years...that sounds rather odd. Considering the very poor evidence on which the Ciprianos were convicted I can't see Portuguese justice being in anyway superior

[Alice Purjorick]

My question to Montclair is based on a post he made where he said he had not heard of a successful miscarriage of justice case in Portugal in the last 30 years...that sounds rather odd. Considering the very poor evidence on which the Ciprianos were convicted I can't see Portuguese justice being in anyway superior

You are privy to entire court transcripts?.

[Mr Gray]

You are privy to entire court transcripts?.

if you look at the appropriate thread you will see there is a clear court statement on the evidence

[Alice Purjorick]

if you look at the appropriate thread you will see there is a clear court statement on the evidence

Well good sir your response clearly fails to address the issue I raised.
No matter; were Joana Cipriano's mother and uncle given custodial sentences for her murder? did this case not make Portuguese legal history in being the first murder conviction in Portugal without a corpse? Has a successful appeal been made to substantiate it was indeed a miscarriage of justice as you assert? On the basis of this one case you believe the English justice system to be superior despite the many cases of miscarriages of justice we have?
You may find this link of interest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_miscarriage_of_justice_cases
Whilst Wikipedia is not a definitive source it does provide an indicator. Check how many miscarriages of justice are listed for Portugal