Was Madeleine's disappearance the result of a burglary gone wrong?

[Miss Taken Identity]

I think there is a misconception that those who do not believe an abduction took pace are all rounded up to be 'ha  ters'... that says more about the people labeling then the non sheeples.

Anna, Most people who follow the case  have a THEORY. no one has claimed , as far as I am aware they they KNOW. only Kate claims to know, and her supporters.

A burglar did not steal Maddie via climbing in and out of a window!

[Miss Taken Identity]

I know it wasn't abduction, I'd be lying if I said I didn't.

I do not believe in a stranger abduction from the apartment! certainly not by burglars!

[misty]

If it was a bungled burglary then the likelihood of cadaver contamination being deposited in so many places would have been virtually zero.

[sadie]

quote author=Anna link=topic=5262.msg187881#msg187881 date=1411409714]

Was It a Burglary gone wrong?
it could have been..............................................................................................


I have not ,as many of you on here have ,spent seven years studying this case, in fact I have spent less than a year ( I wish I had read the starter book..Looking for Madeliene back then) and initially , I was suspicious of the parents, who left their children unattended……….But ,for the love of God! have they not had enough, in the way of punishment?

What do people want in the way of punishment, to satisfy their hunger for Blood?
The parents have worked hard to discover what became of their child, instead of melting into the background, as would be expected of a criminal, guilty of the accusations being made against them.

I also believe their arrogance, discipline, confidence and determination, has angered many and caused much dislike for the couple.Does that make them criminal?
 And what has Money, books. what they wear. how they react to a situation, where they go and who they sue, got to do with us trying to discover what might have happened to their missing child.

There is more discussion on Gerry and Kate’s faults  (from some quarters) than the investigation and what might have become of MM

They have other children who need to be considered and helped to adjust to a normal life, by the parents intervention and ours, if compassion lives within one’s  heart.
 
Since starting to study the case(almost daily), I have checked all the evidence(of which there is next to none), files,statements, facts and  anything else that could bring about a decision as to my thoughts and conclusions.

I believe a burglary gone wrong or abduction, is the only conclusions believable in this case, although I still have a fairly open mind, should there be other reliable evidence introduced.

Decision Makers on alternatives to abduction
Even if it was an accident that occurred on the night of  the 3rd Why not wait until morning and report after disposal and getting a story together?
There is no way I believe an intelligent, parent could so un-ceremonially, dispose of their first born child’s body in a hurried and uncaring manner, as suggested by some theories, such as:-

1.hiding a body and then retrieving a body to hide it again (in an area where wild dogs roamed?) after changing clothes of the child and the body-concealer himself. All in record breaking, stand still or rewound time.
2.Putting in a bin…………………………Awful thing  to think or for any parent to even consider, but someone disposed of his dog in that way (so he says)
3.Burning (I believe this I heard in an Amaral interview)…Bizarre! To say the least. How the hell, would this be achieved ?
4.Burying………….Well , where?
5.Ocean…………….Fair chance it would be washed up somewhere, but nothing!
6. Freezing ………………definitely Bizarre, again. You know from where this came.
7. In a coffin with another inhabitant …………………….Brrrrrrr, made me shudder! Well????????????????? Again you know where this came from

Other thoughts
 Left the Apt and she fell down a hole or roadwork diggings…………….A possibility.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No…. I believe all of the above to be extremely unlikely, but I do not claim to know what happened to that beautiful child and neither does anyone else know, even although they may claim to know.
The only person/s who can say he or she definitely knows, what happened to her, is the person responsible for her disappearance. The words-whoshed, doorslamming, “I knew she had been taken” “Short sleeves” etc. etc. mean absolutely nothing as they are evidence of no consequence to the case being investigated…………..
After all why do you think that Kate would incriminate herself, purposely?

We can only speculate on what happened, while we wait for the outcome of the investigation.
I pray the results will be of  a  positive nature and not another negative outcome, which leaves the family without closure.

Great post Anna    

You have got further in one year than most people on here have done in seven years.

Well done kiddo ! 

[pegasus]

The only sense in which it was bungled is -
the burglar thought there was no-one in, but there was.

[pegasus]

BTW one of the additional nearby burglaries I mentioned was at a groundfloor apartment very close to 5A and identical in layout to 5A.

[Brietta]

I think there is a misconception that those who do not believe an abduction took pace are all rounded up to be 'ha  ters'... that says more about the people labeling then the non sheeples.

Anna, Most people who follow the case  have a THEORY. no one has claimed , as far as I am aware they they KNOW. only Kate claims to know, and her supporters.

A burglar did not steal Maddie via climbing in and out of a window!

To entertain a THEORY one must have something approaching probability to go on.

However such claims are suspect in the face of the unbridled hostility directed at Madeleine McCann's parents which ultimately encompasses Madeleine herself in the exposition of these weird and wunnerful THEORIES.

[pathfinder73]

Russell O'Brien Rog

I did a visual check of the children on the Sunday night, entered through the patio door so I’d been in through that part of the door err that part of the building. Err I think until, actually until the night itself.

Err in terms of entering the bedroom, I don’t, I don’t think I ever actually went into the bedroom on the Sunday night, I’d kind of gone into the door frame you know and just looked, looked in like that.

Russell could see the kids on his check in the room. He never said he had to open the door from ajar to be able to see. If he's telling the truth the door would have to be half-open for him to do a visual check on the kids just like Matt found it on his check. That backs up my theory of a door that never moved  &%+((£

[pegasus]

Russell O'Brien Rog

I did a visual check of the children on the Sunday night, entered through the patio door so I’d been in through that part of the door err that part of the building. Err I think until, actually until the night itself.

Err in terms of entering the bedroom, I don’t, I don’t think I ever actually went into the bedroom on the Sunday night, I’d kind of gone into the door frame you know and just looked, looked in like that.

Russell could see the kids on his check in the room. He never said he had to open the door from ajar to be able to see. If he's telling the truth the door would have to be half-open for him to do a visual check on the kids just like Matt found it on his check. That backs up my theory of a door that never moved  &%+((£

Good point (although maybe it's possible he might have moved the door and just not mentioned it).
But IIRC that door has no place in your theory anyway. BTW through which door or doors do you think the removal really was?

[ferryman]

Was It a Burglary gone wrong?
it could have been..............................................................................................


I have not ,as many of you on here have ,spent seven years studying this case, in fact I have spent less than a year ( I wish I had read the starter book..Looking for Madeliene back then) and initially , I was suspicious of the parents, who left their children unattended……….But ,for the love of God! have they not had enough, in the way of punishment?

What do people want in the way of punishment, to satisfy their hunger for Blood?
The parents have worked hard to discover what became of their child, instead of melting into the background, as would be expected of a criminal, guilty of the accusations being made against them.

I also believe their arrogance, discipline, confidence and determination, has angered many and caused much dislike for the couple.Does that make them criminal?
 And what has Money, books. what they wear. how they react to a situation, where they go and who they sue, got to do with us trying to discover what might have happened to their missing child.

There is more discussion on Gerry and Kate’s faults  (from some quarters) than the investigation and what might have become of MM

They have other children who need to be considered and helped to adjust to a normal life, by the parents intervention and ours, if compassion lives within one’s  heart.
 
Since starting to study the case(almost daily), I have checked all the evidence(of which there is next to none), files,statements, facts and  anything else that could bring about a decision as to my thoughts and conclusions.

I believe a burglary gone wrong or abduction, is the only conclusions believable in this case, although I still have a fairly open mind, should there be other reliable evidence introduced.

Decision Makers on alternatives to abduction
Even if it was an accident that occurred on the night of  the 3rd Why not wait until morning and report after disposal and getting a story together?
There is no way I believe an intelligent, parent could so un-ceremonially, dispose of their first born child’s body in a hurried and uncaring manner, as suggested by some theories, such as:-

1.hiding a body and then retrieving a body to hide it again (in an area where wild dogs roamed?) after changing clothes of the child and the body-concealer himself. All in record breaking, stand still or rewound time.
2.Putting in a bin…………………………Awful thing  to think or for any parent to even consider, but someone disposed of his dog in that way (so he says)
3.Burning (I believe this I heard in an Amaral interview)…Bizarre! To say the least. How the hell, would this be achieved ?
4.Burying………….Well , where?
5.Ocean…………….Fair chance it would be washed up somewhere, but nothing!
6. Freezing ………………definitely Bizarre, again. You know from where this came.
7. In a coffin with another inhabitant …………………….Brrrrrrr, made me shudder! Well????????????????? Again you know where this came from

Other thoughts
 Left the Apt and she fell down a hole or roadwork diggings…………….A possibility.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No…. I believe all of the above to be extremely unlikely, but I do not claim to know what happened to that beautiful child and neither does anyone else know, even although they may claim to know.
The only person/s who can say he or she definitely knows, what happened to her, is the person responsible for her disappearance. The words-whoshed, doorslamming, “I knew she had been taken” “Short sleeves” etc. etc. mean absolutely nothing as they are evidence of no consequence to the case being investigated…………..
After all why do you think that Kate would incriminate herself, purposely?

We can only speculate on what happened, while we wait for the outcome of the investigation.
I pray the results will be of  a  positive nature and not another negative outcome, which leaves the family without closure.

Good post, but on the one I underline, the authors had established that that had been checked (open roadworks, close to apartment 5a the night Madeleine went missing) with no trace of anything human.

Page 36:

Another British citizen, Rex Morgan, would report having seen a manhole with a cover removed in the same general area.  'The road is lit by street lighting', Morgan said, 'but anyone could have fallen in'.  The police files contained a report showing that municipal workers were much later questioned about these hazards, but that they carefully checked the roadworks on May 4th: nothing found ....

Swan and Summer: Looking for Madeleine

[Brietta]

Good post, but on the one I underline, the authors had established that that had been checked (open roadworks, close to apartment 5a the night Madeleine went missing) with no trace of anything human.

From what I remember of the statement in the files, the PJ were content to take the word of the person in charge that the workmen had checked the trenches before filling them in.

I do not think that was good enough. 

I think the assumption was that if Madeleine had fallen in she would have been discovered.  I think that as soon as it was known that a small child was missing work should have been halted on open trenches and specialist excavation ordered under the supervision of the PJ.

For example the search and rescue dogs - either GNR or mountain rescue - would possibly have been appropriate to use as the circumstances probably suited their training.

Perhaps the use of a forensic anthropologist?

I don't think Madeleine was in a trench nor do I think she was in a dumpster ... but it is my opinion those possible locations were not searched appropriately to eliminate them in a case of this kind.

[Brietta]

BTW one of the additional nearby burglaries I mentioned was at a groundfloor apartment very close to 5A and identical in layout to 5A.

Love the avi ... do you have problems with people setting their terriers on your toes?

[pathfinder73]

Good point (although maybe it's possible he might have moved the door and just not mentioned it).
But IIRC that door has no place in your theory anyway. BTW through which door or doors do you think the removal really was?

That question definitely needs to be asked but I think he would have mentioned it. It seems the door was half-open as Matt found it on his check which backs up my theory that it was always in that position and never moved.

[pegasus]

Love the avi ... do you have problems with people setting their terriers on your toes?

Thanks. Not so far. I only wear them when hiding in shrubbery. BTW they are a rare variety of mink, according to the man I bought them from in the pub.

Back to burglary: what does a child typically do if the parents are out and a burglar starts to enter the residence?

[pegasus]

This kid was home alone, his parents were out.
He was laying on his bed, when he heard noises and saw shadows at his bedroom window.
Then someone started entering through his bedroom window.
What did he do?

He went from his bedroom to the parents' bedroom
And hid in the wardrobe
Behind behind lots of clothing
So even if someone opened the wardrobe door they wouldn't see him

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTRHr0jkqVM