Author Topic: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police  (Read 237207 times)

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Offline Mr Gray

Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
« Reply #525 on: October 15, 2014, 02:52:57 PM »
No.

The police, having identified a crime and requesting help from the media in tracing a suspect is not the same in principle as the media targeting and confronting an individual not even identified as a suspect by the police.......... in a "crime" not even identified by them, either.

Happens all the time...have you not seen cowboy builders

Alfred R Jones

  • Guest
Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
« Reply #526 on: October 15, 2014, 02:58:48 PM »
No.

The police, having identified a crime and requesting help from the media in tracing a suspect is not the same in principle as the media targeting and confronting an individual not even identified as a suspect by the police.......... in a "crime" not even identified by them, either.
I'm surprised to see you responding to my posts having vowed to ignore them, but thanks for your reply.   I strongly suggest you campaign for a change in the law as you obviously feel very strongly about this.  At the moment there is no law forbidding the media from challenging individuals that they believe may be involved in illegal or [ censored word]ocial behaviour.  If you think it is correct that the media is forbidden from exposing such people then it is important you sign up to Hacked Off and push for such legislation to be implemented.  Until you have done so I'm afraid I won't be taking what you have to say on this matter very seriously.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
« Reply #527 on: October 15, 2014, 02:59:01 PM »
There are strict rules surrounding these activities but Brunt seems to have ignored them in the pursuance of what he thought was a juicy story.

what rules are these....who makes them..are you sure about this

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
« Reply #528 on: October 15, 2014, 02:59:53 PM »
Exactly so, I hope her son and daughter pursue Sky News over this.

I don't think they have any case....freedom of the press

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
« Reply #529 on: October 15, 2014, 03:03:23 PM »
What Brenda Leyland was doing was totally wrong...Brunt should be congratulated for what he did.

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
« Reply #530 on: October 15, 2014, 03:13:10 PM »
What Brenda Leyland was doing was totally wrong...Brunt should be congratulated for what he did.

On the basis of a lie ?

Offline misty

Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
« Reply #531 on: October 15, 2014, 03:16:28 PM »
On the basis of a lie ?

What lie? Provide us with the statement from the police or withdraw your accusation.

Offline Mr Gray

Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
« Reply #532 on: October 15, 2014, 03:31:25 PM »
On the basis of a lie ?

What lie was that?

Offline Jean-Pierre

Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
« Reply #533 on: October 15, 2014, 03:33:13 PM »
mcann supporters are hypocrites they love the  mcanns    but hate everybody else yet call us [ censored word ]

Carly, you never did answer my question.  You said you felt that all posters online have a right to anonymity.

Should that apply to people plotting terrorist acts? 

Should it apply to paedophiles?  Should they be able online to swap pictures of young children being abused without any sanction? 

Should people be able to plot or discuss any other criminal activity online with a guarantee of anonymity? 

   

Offline Brietta

Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
« Reply #534 on: October 15, 2014, 03:53:30 PM »
Sending a dossier anonymously renders it without credibility, likewise those faceless idiots behind it.

If memory serves me well ... the dossier was handed to the police ... in person ... by a whistleblower who asked for anonymity ... for the simple reason she feared vilification, on-line attack, and for her personal safety.

Wonder what put those ideas into her head?
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

stephen25000

  • Guest
Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
« Reply #535 on: October 15, 2014, 03:57:07 PM »
Is it not a policeman's job to investigate, in some manner, all complaints received in writing?

Well, have they ?

It this known she wasn't charged.

Offline jassi

Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
« Reply #536 on: October 15, 2014, 04:02:59 PM »
Well, have they ?

It this known she wasn't charged.

Not even arrested, which they often do at the drop of a hat.
I believe everything. And l believe nothing.
I suspect everyone. And l suspect no one.
I gather the facts, examine the clues... and before   you know it, the case is solved!"

Or maybe not -

OG have been pushed out by the Germans who have reserved all the deck chairs for the foreseeable future

Offline Brietta

Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
« Reply #537 on: October 15, 2014, 04:16:54 PM »
need i remind you the mcanns unwitting or not  put themselves in the spotlight by leaving children alone while they  ate and drank?


What has that to do with the person who abducted Madeleine who seems to be blameless in all of this?

What has that to do with the search to find Madeleine which would not be happening without her parents ‘putting themselves in the spotlight’ to achieve it?

What has that to do with a seven year hate campaign orchestrated against Madeleine’s parents?

The Portuguese prosecutor is on record as considering “they had already suffered too much” who are these vile people who would add to that suffering and keep it up over a period of seven years?

Just like yourself they are believers in Groundhog day but it doesn't really excuse any who may have broken the law as will possibly be tested quite soon.
"All I'm going to say is that we've conducted a very serious investigation and there's no indication that Madeleine McCann's parents are connected to her disappearance. On the other hand, we have a lot of evidence pointing out that Christian killed her," Wolter told the "Friday at 9"....

Offline Carana

Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
« Reply #538 on: October 15, 2014, 04:16:55 PM »
The law relating to this is complex and undeveloped, with little modern case law as yet.  But it may be helpful to  try to make some sense of all this:

In law, you can distinguish between

(a) real, identifyable people.  (e.g. The McCanns, Amaral, Bennett etc)

(b) Those who are anaonymous, and hide behind a username (e.g Sweepyface, Biretta, Stephen2500, Wonderfulspan, jean-pierre).

And also between
 
(c) Combatants (for want of a better term ) - those who actively participate in discussions online on twitter, facebook, blogs, forums etc - e.g. those in (b) and those in category (a) who do engage in online activity.  (e.g. Bennett, and those whose real identity is revealed

(d) Non Combatants - those who do not engage in online stuff - e.g. The McCanns, Amaral.

Of course the boundaries between these can get blurred, but for the sake of this they will have to do. 

In law, while someone is identifyable only by a usename, they cannot suffer injury.  i.e. J-P can call Stephen2500 or wonderfulspam or biretta whatever he wants, and accuse them of whatever he likes, with no consequences at all in law.  So getting exercised about Vee's posting is not correct - at this point.  There is no criminal or civil action that can be taken.

All users must be aware that they may be identified.  Maybe by being "outed" But also their ISP can be forced to reveal details of the user, where there is a possibility of civil or criminal action.   

So people in categories (b) and (c) can go at each other hammer and tongs, if they so wish.  In fact some forums have a sort of "rumpus room" where anything goes. 

But as soon as they start on categories (a) and (d) they run a serious risk of falling foul of the criminal law, or of facing action for defamation. 

Of course, once someone is actually unmasked, they may themselves then fall into both category (a) and (c).  At this point they may be able to take action against those abusing them, and invoke a criminal complaint or a civil action.  However, their own posting history would be considered, and the principle of volenti non fit injuria (to he who is willing no harm can be done) will come into play, and so someone with a vitriolic posting history who is subsequently unmasked and identified would be unlikely to succeed in any legal action.     

Which underlines the sense of only posting things online that you would say face to face.  You never know when you might be called on it.  This applies to both sides, of course.

But I would be fascinated to see evidence of the actual scale of abuse directed at McCann doubters.  (those in category (b) and (c) do not count, obviously.   
 

Well done, JP. That seems to be the baseline. However, as you said, distinctions can be blurred.

A hypothetical example (based on an amalgamation of a few of the types of posts that I've seen online), what if someone, based (or pretending to be based) at the other end of the world, posting on a site hosted even further away, says something such as: "I dreamt last night that the McScamms were going to be waterboarded *innocent face* and that they revealed the truth about Margaret's murder #mccann".

And the post gets 200 "likes" or whatever the approval sign is, and umpteen RTs and favourites and leads to a rallying cry.

What are the legal implications?

- The attempt to disguise the names wouldn't be a defence in (UK) libel law, would it, if there is a reasonable assumption that people could guess who the parties are?

- What about the criminal side, including the international dimension?

Offline Benice

Re: Investigation into McCann internet trolls launched by police
« Reply #539 on: October 15, 2014, 04:27:13 PM »
mcann supporters are hypocrites they love the  mcanns    but hate everybody else yet call us [ censored word ]

If that's what you think then why do you read their posts?     No-one forces you to.    There are other forums where you would never have to read a single word in support of the McCanns -  and so wouldn't have to spend your time insulting posters because they happen to have a different opinion to yours.
The notion that innocence prevails over guilt – when there is no evidence to the contrary – is what separates civilization from barbarism.    Unfortunately, there are remains of barbarism among us.    Until very recently, it headed the PJ in Portimão. I hope he was the last one.
                                               Henrique Monteiro, chief editor, Expresso, Portugal