Are there other cases of an abductor carrying a child through streets?

[sadie]

Did police used to patrol PdL by car in those days?

I am recently back from Portugal, including a few hours in PdL. and over 500 miles driving, some on motorways

I was looking for police cars because I wanted to see the 112.


Everywhere, I was struck by how few Police Cars there were.  Even in Lisbon very few.
Only once saw a blue flashing light in the whole holiday.

I think that PT is short of money and uses Police cars to an absolute minimum


Yep, most, but not all police cars had the 112 on them, mainly tucked away almost out of sight to the driver of another car .... and also lots of other bits of confusing numbers/writing on them too. 

Nothing to indicate what the rather small 112 meant. 



Tbh, I am doubtful that much patrolling goes on, altho once we did see a cop on a small motorbike .... just once in 13 days

[valeria]

Thankyou valeria.
"trying to hide something that she was holding in her arms"
Here is a different behaviour from smithman who did not try to cover what was in his arms, if he was a perp why did he not cover with his black jacket?.

How many metres along streets did the woman walk before getting in taxi?

i found no mention of how long she walked before getting a taxi. Also no mention of whether the taxi driver came forward.
However it became known that she snatched the babe because she wanted to persuade a man she used to have a relationship with that she gave birth to his child in order to get him back.
She was supposed to be an educated woman (an economist) and she had already had two children from previous mariiage.
So there are many different intentions behind abductions no matter how illogical they seem to us.

[Alfred R Jones]

I think some expect more Clint Eastwood on his Mule.

Oh very funny.  Police can patrol on foot you know.  Or bicycle.  Or motorbike.  Or even Segways (however you spell them). The question was less about the mode of transport though than the presence of police in the sleepy little town - was it subject to regular police patrol?  My bet is not really, what do you think?

[Alfred R Jones]

No-one has posted any case ever in Europe where an abductor (or an occulter) carried a victim through the streets openly in his arms.
That's a challenge - peeps here have good research skills - how come no-one here can find a single case?

Does abductor walking through the streets holding hands with the child count or not?

[Alfred R Jones]

Will Pegasus have a good reason why this one doesn't count?

Sue Lawrie, then aged 14, was walking with her father along the banks of the Torrens River, about one kilometre from Adelaide Oval. Speaking years later, she said:


We walked out from the zoo and were about midway between Popeye and the University Bridge. I looked across the river and saw a very young girl being carried by a man who I thought was her grandfather. He had a hat and a checked jacket on. She was crying and the older girl, I think she was a few years younger than me, was running after him. She was thumping him and punching into him and crying out at him. I saw all that for about 60 seconds. The thing seemed wrong because I would have thought if he was a relative he would have shooed her… It was after I married, I was about 18 or 20, I kept on and on at my husband about my memories -- and I read another article on the abduction. My husband said "go and do something about it". I went to the chief investigator in about 1979-80 and made a full statement. I was sure of many things, including the time, because the siren went for the beginning or end of the third-quarter. Dad remarked on the game, but I don't think he saw what I was watching on the other side of the river. I believe on the day of the abduction the police were looking in an opposite direction to where we were walking. The only other thing I need to say is the parents of Joanne should take heart that little girl did everything she could to protect her little friend.
http://murderpedia.org/male.B/b/brown-arthur-stanley.htm

Adelaide Oval Case

Seven years later, there was an Aussie Rules match at a stadium called the Adelaide Oval. Two young girls went to the bathroom. Their parents never saw them again.

A ticket booth attendant said that a man tried to get the girls’ attention by telling them he was trying to rescue a cat trapped under a stand. This is how he got their attention. At some point, he apparently grabbed the younger girl and picked her up. A witness saw a man walking away carrying the younger girl, while the 11 year old was behind him, hitting him and kicking him.

The witness thought it was strange and watched them for about a minute. The man and the two girls were seen several more times in the blocks near the stadium. The older one was still struggling with the man and hitting him. One witness thought it was so odd that he almost called police, but then thought again. The father went looking for the girls, but it was too late.

[Alfred R Jones]

And this CCTV footage of an abductor carrying a child through the streets won't count because...?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8383424.stm

[Carana]

Oh very funny.  Police can patrol on foot you know.  Or bicycle.  Or motorbike.  Or even Segways (however you spell them). The question was less about the mode of transport though than the presence of police in the sleepy little town - was it subject to regular police patrol?  My bet is not really, what do you think?

I doubt it as the on-duty patrol came after checking on a different incident elsewhere. Was there more than one available? If so, why wasn't an available one despatched earlier? From what I've read, the number of GNR officers available are increased for the tourist season, but this holiday took place just at the very beginning of it.

Without a need to prowl through sleepy villages at that time of year, I don't see why a patrol would be taken up with doing so.

[pegasus]

Does abductor walking through the streets holding hands with the child count or not?

IMO no because in smith sighting the child had eyelids closed.

[pegasus]

@AlfredRJones. Thanks for posing the Oval case. The route taken from the Oval to opposite the zoo appears to be a riverside path. The older of the two children was hitting the man - this raises the question if smithman was a perp why was the child in his arms not struggling?
Scary the perp in the oval case and in the other aussy case above have never been caught. The perp in the welsh case above was, and to put it very mildly, the UK really should have "life imprisonment with absolutely no release ever" for such absolute evil.

[pegasus]

And this CCTV footage of an abductor carrying a child through the streets won't count because...?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8383424.stm

Yes agreed that is a case of a perp carrying a child openly along a significant length of public streets.
And agreed the Oval case counts also because that riverside path was equivalent to a public street (known big risk of being seen).

[Eleanor]

Some one was seen carrying a baby through the streets in The Lisa Irwin Case, but no one thought anything of it at the time.
And then later it was largely suggested that it was her mother, despite being a man who was seen. So great lengths were gone to in an effort to prove how the baby's father could have gotten out of a work shift that he was undoubtedly at.

[Wonderfulspam]

Some one was seen carrying a baby through the streets in The Lisa Irwin Case, but no one thought anything of it at the time.
And then later it was largely suggested that it was her mother, despite being a man who was seen. So great lengths were gone to in an effort to prove how the baby's father could have gotten out of a work shift that he was undoubtedly at.

A cadaver dog alerted in the parents bedroom.

Her mother failed a lie detector & there were inconsistencies in their story.

If Lisa turns up alive I will eat my hat.

[Alfred R Jones]

Yes agreed that is a case of a perp carrying a child openly along a significant length of public streets.
And agreed the Oval case counts also because that riverside path was equivalent to a public street (known big risk of being seen).

Also, In the Oval case the children were also abducted in broad daylight in a public place packed with sports fans.   

[Alfred R Jones]

Off topic I know but on researching the Oval abduction I came across an article from earlier in the year detailing the millions of pounds that The Australian governmnent is planning to spend on solving this and several other horrific abductions and murder cases in South Australia.  Given that most of these cases occured dozens of years ago, would McCann sceptics who begrudge the cost of the Madeleine investigation say that this was a waste of Australian tacpayers' money?  Perhaps a subject for a separate thread...

[sadie]

The James Bulger murder

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_James_Bulger


But in any case what relevance does this have to Madeleine being taken?
Every case is different as the case of the little girl being taken from her bath with family in the next room illustrates.

Every case is different