Was there a vehicle in the car park outside Madeleine's bedroom window?

[misty]

Why do you suppose the PJ never asked any of the Tapas checkers during their interviews about vehicles they may have observed in the front car park that night? The whole focus of the PJ seems to have been on people who were walking around in the vicinity before & after the crucial time, especially after.
 I am thinking specifically of the grey car, observed by Maria da Silva, outside Madeleine's window at 10pm. Kate looked right  out of the window, yet never seems to have been asked what she recalled seeing outside - was that car still there by the time she looked minutes later?
If you discount all the sightings of carriers on foot - could Madeleine have been taken out through the front door, passed straight over the wall & bundled into the boot of that grey car?


http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARIA-M-M-DE-SILVA.htm
*snip*
. Declares further that on the night 03-05-07, she left the apartment at around 21H58?she remembers the exact time because she asked her friend the time and she responded after checking this on the telephone in the lounge;
. They left the building and the deponent and her boyfriend took the Opel Frontera, previously indicated, which was parked out front of the apartment, in the private parking area of Block 6 where her friend's apartment was located;
. She declares that the night was good with a breeze, and that it was dark;
. After leaving Block 6, they turned right and after left, passing in front of the block occupied by the McCanns. She states that she saw no movement of people, and that in the immediate areas of the blocks she saw no vehicle with the exception of a small car, that appeared to her grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment;
She declares further that she mentioned this fact to her boyfriend and that it wasn't yet summer given the movement on the roads, and at that hour movement was nill;
. States that she looked at the exit of the apartment and that from the flat above the McCanns, she saw light, and also in from of the apartment, but she could not define, concretely, where she saw the light when she passed the McCann apartment;
. Next to the tree, she did not detect any movement of people or vehicles, and nothing struck her as abnormal in that zone that would have raised her suspicions;
. She only learnt of what had happened to little Madeleine the next day after having received a telephone call from her friend, who alerted her to what had happened;

[sadie]

Why do you suppose the PJ never asked any of the Tapas checkers during their interviews about vehicles they may have observed in the front car park that night? The whole focus of the PJ seems to have been on people who were walking around in the vicinity before & after the crucial time, especially after.
 I am thinking specifically of the grey car, observed by Maria da Silva, outside Madeleine's window at 10pm. Kate looked right  out of the window, yet never seems to have been asked what she recalled seeing outside - was that car still there by the time she looked minutes later?
If you discount all the sightings of carriers on foot - could Madeleine have been taken out through the front door, passed straight over the wall & bundled into the boot of that grey car?

http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/MARIA-M-M-
DE-SILVA.htm
. Declares further that on the night 03-05-07, she left the apartment at around 21H58?she remembers the exact time because she asked her friend the time and she responded after checking this on the telephone in the lounge;
. They left the building and the deponent and her boyfriend took the Opel Frontera, previously indicated, which was parked out front of the apartment, in the private parking area of Block 6 where her friend's apartment was located;
. She declares that the night was good with a breeze, and that it was dark;
. After leaving Block 6, they turned right and after left, passing in front of the block occupied by the McCanns. She states that she saw no movement of people, and that in the immediate areas of the blocks she saw no vehicle with the exception of a small car, that appeared to her grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment;
She declares further that she mentioned this fact to her boyfriend and that it wasn't yet summer given the movement on the roads, and at that hour movement was nill;
. States that she looked at the exit of the apartment and that from the flat above the McCanns, she saw light, and also in from of the apartment, but she could not define, concretely, where she saw the light when she passed the McCann apartment;
. Next to the tree, she did not detect any movement of people or vehicles, and nothing struck her as abnormal in that zone that would have raised her suspicions;
. She only learnt of what had happened to little Madeleine the next day after having received a telephone call from her friend, who alerted her to what had happened;

After leaving Block 6, they turned right and after left, passing in front of the block occupied by the McCanns. She states that she saw no movement of people, and that in the immediate areas of the blocks she saw no vehicle with the exception of a small car, that appeared to her grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment;
She declares further that she mentioned this fact to her boyfriend and that it wasn't yet summer given the movement on the roads, and at that hour movement was nill;
. States that she looked at the exit of the apartment and that from the flat above the McCanns, she saw light, and also in from of the apartment, but she could not define, concretely, where she saw the light when she passed the McCann apartment;
. Next to the tree, she did not detect any movement of people or vehicles, and nothing struck her as abnormal in that zone that would have raised her suspicions;


Tbh, I am gobsmacked that she would see a grey car in front of the apartment, with it all being so dimly lit .... and with the trees waving around in the stiff breeze. 
These trees are a little like weeping willows, altho not to such an extent.  They have long flexible well leafed twigs that hang down quite a length (? 2 feet or so) and these long "twigs" move freely in any wind. 

Additionally, if they were driving from block 6 car park, initially the wall would have been too high to see a car in front of Madeleines window. 

As they moved forward and uphill, they went around the bend into Rua Dr Agostinho de Silva and the road carried on uphill a little, which gradually lowered the effect of the wall.   But, by the time she could have seen over it, I think she must have been at least level with the bedroom window.  I dont think that she could have seen over  it until then.      I think she would have to have looked back on herself to see it  ... and I am doubtful that she could have seen the exit (front door) which in any case was in pitch blackness.

Most people dont look back into a dark place as they are moving along.  They look forward towards light things or movement.

However, the wall in front of 4A is lower for its full length and she might have seen something there as she approached, rather than having to look back.  Also the trees were not as dense around 4A for some reason, so it would not be so dimly lit.


The whole thing is so unlikely and not plausible, IMO.   I think she remembered the wrong block.  I think she totally mistook the two blocks TBH

[misty]

After leaving Block 6, they turned right and after left, passing in front of the block occupied by the McCanns. She states that she saw no movement of people, and that in the immediate areas of the blocks she saw no vehicle with the exception of a small car, that appeared to her grey in colour, parked close to the window of the McCann apartment;
She declares further that she mentioned this fact to her boyfriend and that it wasn't yet summer given the movement on the roads, and at that hour movement was nill;
. States that she looked at the exit of the apartment and that from the flat above the McCanns, she saw light, and also in from of the apartment, but she could not define, concretely, where she saw the light when she passed the McCann apartment;
. Next to the tree, she did not detect any movement of people or vehicles, and nothing struck her as abnormal in that zone that would have raised her suspicions;


Tbh, I am gobsmacked that she would see a grey car in front of the apartment, with it all being so dimly lit .... and with the trees waving around in the stiff breeze. 
These trees are a little like weeping willows, altho not to such an extent.  They have long flexible well leafed twigs that hang down quite a length (? 2 feet or so) and these long "twigs" move freely in any wind. 

Additionally, if they were driving from block 6 car park, initially the wall would have been too high to see a car in front of Madeleines window. 

As they moved forward and uphill, they went around the bend into Rua Dr Agostinho de Silva and the road carried on uphill a little, which gradually lowered the effect of the wall.   But, by the time she could have seen over it, I think she must have been at least level with the bedroom window.  I dont think that she could have seen over  it until then.      I think she would have to have looked back on herself to see it  ... and I am doubtful that she could have seen the exit (front door) which in any case was in pitch blackness.

Most people dont look back into a dark place as they are moving along.  They look forward towards light things or movement.

However, the wall in front of 4A is lower for its full length and she might have seen something there as she approached, rather than having to look back.  Also the trees were not as dense around 4A for some reason, so it would not be so dimly lit.


The whole thing is so unlikely and not plausible, IMO.   I think she remembered the wrong block.  I think she totally mistook the two blocks TBH

Maria made her statement on 8th May & was apparently a frequent visitor to block 6. I disagree that she would not have had a good view of that part of the car park when passing- see attached photograph. IMO it looks like she would have had a really good view if looking in that direction.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[sadie]

Maria made her statement on 8th May & was apparently a frequent visitor to block 6. I disagree that she would not have had a good view of that part of the car park when passing- see attached photograph. IMO it looks like she would have had a really good view if looking in that direction.

Misty,

By the time she got there she was well past the window. She would have to have been looking backwards, not even sideways, but backwards.

People dont do that unless there is some special reason.

At that stage she had no known reason for looking backwards.

And I repeat,
People generally look forwards, the way they are moving  especially in the dark ... unless there is something happening or there is unusual light.


She possibly would have been able to see 4A well in her periferel vision.



I think she got 5A and 4A mixed up.

[misty]

Misty,

By the time she got there she was well past the window. She would have to have been looking backwards, not even sideways, but backwards.

People dont do that unless there is some special reason.

At that stage she had no known reason for looking backwards.

And I repeat,
People generally look forwards, the way they are moving  especially in the dark ... unless there is something happening or there is unusual light.


She possibly would have been able to see 4A well in her periferel vision.



I think she got 5A and 4A mixed up.

My original question was regarding the PJ's apparent failure to ask any of the Tapas children checkers what vehicles they saw in the front car-park that night. Maria da Silva allegedly saw the grey car parked near Madeleine's window minutes before Madeleine was discovered missing.
Jane walked through that car-park - twice. The second time was within minutes of the discovery. She subsequently recalled seeing "Tannerman", but made no mention of any car parked near 5a. Was it even there at around 9.45pm? Was it there when Kate looked out the bedroom window at just after 10pm?
We have no reason to disbelieve Maria at this stage - so why wasn't this crucial point pursued?

[John]

My original question was regarding the PJ's apparent failure to ask any of the Tapas children checkers what vehicles they saw in the front car-park that night. Maria da Silva allegedly saw the grey car parked near Madeleine's window minutes before Madeleine was discovered missing.
Jane walked through that car-park - twice. The second time was within minutes of the discovery. She subsequently recalled seeing "Tannerman", but made no mention of any car parked near 5a. Was it even there at around 9.45pm? Was it there when Kate looked out the bedroom window at just after 10pm?
We have no reason to disbelieve Maria at this stage - so why wasn't this crucial point pursued?

Good point misty.  I had always assumed no mention of a car meant there wasn't any. 

[Carana]

Misty,

By the time she got there she was well past the window. She would have to have been looking backwards, not even sideways, but backwards.

People dont do that unless there is some special reason.

At that stage she had no known reason for looking backwards.

And I repeat,
People generally look forwards, the way they are moving  especially in the dark ... unless there is something happening or there is unusual light.


She possibly would have been able to see 4A well in her periferel vision.



I think she got 5A and 4A mixed up.

(Snip)

I remember a few years ago, someone made exactly the same remark, Sadie, and even used Google Earth to show why that was odd.

You're good at Google Earth - do you think you could use it to illustrate your point?

[sadie]

I remember a few years ago, someone made exactly the same remark, Sadie, and even used Google Earth to show why that was odd.

You're good at Google Earth - do you think you could use it to illustrate your point?

Yep, I am quite good on Google Earth, but I dont know how to post images without nasty people being able to go back into my computer .... and I aint risking that !

I have spent hours, with good advice from several people including John,  trying to crack it, bit cant for some reason.



I have so much to show that it could turn your hair curly if I managed it.  Some peoples hair from the other side might drop out altogether if I succeeded ..... it is so pertinent.

mind you, some of it is ex-judicy possibly.  I mean pre sub Judice ... [Slarti corrected me.  Thank you Slarti ]

Pathetic, but there you go !

[pathfinder73]

2 grey cars - photoman



For this purpose, the witness and her boyfriend travelled in her car, a Peugeot model 106, metallic grey in colour, (HMC)

[sadie]

What's that all about pFinder? 


It aint in front of Madeleines window, on the car park there, so why have you posted it? 


Have I missed something?


And,
Where and what is the first building?  It aint anywhere near 5A, I can tell you that.

[Anna]

Maybe the car belonged to a resident after all. See the grey car parked next to Mrs Fenn at 0.30

[pathfinder73]

What's that all about pFinder? 


It aint in front of Madeleines window, on the car park there, so why have you posted it? 


Have I missed something?


And,
Where and what is the first building?  It aint anywhere near 5A, I can tell you that.

When did she say Madeleine's window? There is a window (living room) next to the car on the road which they could easily see when leaving block 6 car park. They could also see the lights above on in Fenn's apartment.

"Next to the tree, she did not detect any movement of people or vehicles."

Madeleine's window is next to the tree in the car park.

[misty]

Maybe the car belonged to a resident after all. See the grey car parked next to Mrs Fenn at 0.30

Thank you, Anna. That certainly looks like a small grey car, rather than the family-sized photoman vehicle.
Presumably its owner has been identified & ruled out.

[sadie]

When did she say Madeleine's window? There is a window (living room) next to the car on the road which they could easily see when leaving block 6 car park. They could also see the lights above on in Fenn's apartment.

"Next to the tree, she did not detect any movement of people or vehicles."

Madeleine's window is next to the tree in the car park.

No, you have got it wrong pFinder.  No tree BY Madeleines window at all.  Lots of trees around the car park, but none BY Madeleines room.

[sadie]

Btw, the photo you originally showed Misty. 

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5581.0;attach=4518;image



www.i.imgur.com/MG2ekTc.jpg?1


Thank you John for the image

The one which has mysteriously vanished, now back mega sized thanks to John, when viewed from the angle you show, the front Exit (door?) cannot even be seen.  It is tucked away in the recess to the left, totally out of sight.


How did she see that, if she was referring to the front door?