Author Topic: Has Jeremy ever been assessed for psychopathy?  (Read 19915 times)

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Offline John

Re: Has Jeremy ever been assessed for psychopathy?
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2014, 07:58:20 PM »
His lawyers are on record stating that he displayed the classic indicators of a psychopath.  Scott Lomax wrote in his book that Bamber underwent several psychological assessments in prison but that no evidence of psychopathy was found.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2014, 03:35:51 AM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Has Jeremy ever been assessed for psychopathy?
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2014, 05:06:44 PM »
His lawyers are on record stating that he displayed the classic indicators of a psychopath.  Scott Lomax wrote in his book that Bamber underwent several psychological assessments in prison but that no evidence of psychopathy was found.

Andrea has recently posted about this.  As far as I am aware the only reference for this comes from Roger Wilke's book?  Apparently an "eminent" psychologist or psychiatrist (?) was invited into chambers by Geoffrey Rivlin QC shortly before trial.  An opinion was sought and it was said that JB showed all the classic signs of psychopathy in that he was able to push things to the back of his mind.

Does anyone have any info on this other than RW's book?  As it stands I think it lacks credibility?  Who was the "eminent" psychologist/psychiatrist?  If it is true why didn't GR arrange for JB to be properly assessed? 

It seems clear to me that JB is not a psychopath and never has been.  However I don't think this really proves much in terms of his ability or lack of to murder his family:

http://jeremybamber.org/psychological-reports/
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline guinness

Re: Has Jeremy ever been assessed for psychopathy?
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2014, 08:50:26 PM »
Andrea has recently posted about this.  As far as I am aware the only reference for this comes from Roger Wilke's book?  Apparently an "eminent" psychologist or psychiatrist (?) was invited into chambers by Geoffrey Rivlin QC shortly before trial.  An opinion was sought and it was said that JB showed all the classic signs of psychopathy in that he was able to push things to the back of his mind.

Does anyone have any info on this other than RW's book?  As it stands I think it lacks credibility?  Who was the "eminent" psychologist/psychiatrist?  If it is true why didn't GR arrange for JB to be properly assessed? 

It seems clear to me that JB is not a psychopath and never has been.  However I don't think this really proves much in terms of his ability or lack of to murder his family:

http://jeremybamber.org/psychological-reports/


what exactly was he supposed to be pushing to the back of his mind? If saw nothing or committed no murders what are his reactions supposed to be ? remorse ? what for if he was not guilty.?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Has Jeremy ever been assessed for psychopathy?
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2014, 01:55:41 PM »

what exactly was he supposed to be pushing to the back of his mind? If saw nothing or committed no murders what are his reactions supposed to be ? remorse ? what for if he was not guilty.?

When I said in my post above "if it's true" I meant if it's true that GR invited a psychologist/psychiatrist into chambers for an opinion on JB then why did he not arrange to have JB formerly assessed if it was to aid the defences case?  If was not to aid the defences case then what was the purpose? 

Guinness in answer to your post, those around JB accused him of not showing enough emotion, behaving inappropriately and apparently questioning his ability to carry on with the day to day practicalities of life in the aftermath of the tragedy at WHF.  When he did show emotion eg at his parents' funeral he was accused of feigning it.

For example Barbara Wilson, farm secretary, stated in a recent tv docu that JB wasn't sad.  Why would Jeremy Bamber share his sadness/feelings with the farm secretary?  Just because someone doesn't walk around blubbing doesn't mean they don't feel sad. In any event he couldn't win had he have kept blubbing it would have been 'put on'. 

@ 6.50 in

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 03:20:37 PM by John »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

david1819

  • Guest
Re: Has Jeremy ever been assessed for psychopathy?
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2015, 08:44:34 PM »
There's absolutely no evidence JB has ever suffered from any psychopathy/personality disorder:

http://jeremybamber.org/psychological-reports/

Jeremybamber.org is not a reliable and balanced/fair source. However I have had conflicting opinions about the guy.

Former inmates and visitors have said he is perfectly alright/normal and good to be around on the other hand I found these comment from people I quote

"No reflection of guilt or innocence...I just personally found him to be a creepy bloke and was very glad of the armed guard with him. He made my hair stand on end."

"A friend of mine is an officer at his prison and has know Bamber for a fair while. His verdict is that he is an evil scheming b........ who is in exactly the right place"

However you need to consider that first impressions are a big factor on peoples judgments. And knowing what he is convicted of prior to meeting him will make a fair judgment impossible.
 

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Has Jeremy ever been assessed for psychopathy?
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2015, 09:54:46 PM »
Jeremybamber.org is not a reliable and balanced/fair source. However I have had conflicting opinions about the guy.

Former inmates and visitors have said he is perfectly alright/normal and good to be around on the other hand I found these comment from people I quote

"No reflection of guilt or innocence...I just personally found him to be a creepy bloke and was very glad of the armed guard with him. He made my hair stand on end."

"A friend of mine is an officer at his prison and has know Bamber for a fair while. His verdict is that he is an evil scheming b........ who is in exactly the right place"

However you need to consider that first impressions are a big factor on peoples judgments. And knowing what he is convicted of prior to meeting him will make a fair judgment impossible.

The info was obtained from JB.org but supplied by Prof Egan:

http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/medicine/people/vincent.egan

I rather think Prof Egan would have something to say if he was being misquoted.

Andrew Hunter, former MP, Michael Turner QC, and David James Smith, journalist, all appear to have found JB 'normal'.  This is what David James Smith said:

"I had said on the way in that I feared I would find him repulsive, but in the event, I found him all too human and understandable. Except for the part of him that I felt was hidden. The corner of his soul that carried the knowledge of what had really happened that night 25 years ago,
and who really had killed his family.
He knows the truth. And he is the only person in the world who does.
Was it Sheila? Was it Jeremy?
Reader, I have no idea."

http://davidjamessmith.net/pdf_articles/DJS_bamber.pdf

The following testimonials from various individuals seem to find him 'normal' too:

http://www.jeremybambertestimony.co.uk/

Yes first impressions count and most will find it difficult to see him anything but guilty given he has been behind bars for so long albeit protesting his innocence.

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline John

Re: Has Jeremy ever been assessed for psychopathy?
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2015, 01:14:45 PM »
There's absolutely no evidence JB has ever suffered from any psychopathy/personality disorder:

http://jeremybamber.org/psychological-reports/

You forget the comments by his own legal team.  How else would you explain the lack of empathy on finding out that five members of your family had just been murdered?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 02:39:23 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Has Jeremy ever been assessed for psychopathy?
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2015, 01:51:10 PM »
You forget the comments by his own legal team.  How else would you explain the lack of empathy on finding out that five members of your family had just been murdered?

Dr Craig from CoA:

39. Dr Craig also saw the appellant outside the farmhouse. He said he appeared to be in a state of shock. At one stage he broke down and cried and he also appeared to vomit. The appellant told the doctor there had been "some considerable discussion" amongst the family about the future of Sheila Caffell's children the previous evening, during which the question of their being fostered had been raised. He said that the family was concerned that his sister had been abusing the children.

Please explain re your post above?


Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: Has Jeremy ever been assessed for psychopathy?
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2015, 02:11:29 PM »
Confuse-us he say - "Take everything Jeremy Bamber utters with a huge bucketful of salt"
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline John

Re: Has Jeremy ever been assessed for psychopathy?
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2015, 02:44:02 PM »
Rivlin and his defence team came to the conclusion he was after talking to an eminent London psychologist.

Bamber showed all the classic symptoms of the psychopath who had put the murders completely out of his mind.

Let's not forget that psychopathy is not for life as has been shown in several case studies.  With young men diagnosed with psychopathic tendencies,  the trait can disappear altogether with subjects by the time they're in their forties.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 03:22:17 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Has Jeremy ever been assessed for psychopathy?
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2015, 04:30:42 PM »
Rivlin and his defence team came to the conclusion he was after talking to an eminent London psychologist.

Bamber showed all the classic symptoms of the psychopath who had put the murders completely out of his mind.

Let's not forget that psychopathy is not for life as has been shown in several case studies.  With young men diagnosed with psychopathic tendencies,  the trait can disappear altogether with subjects by the time they're in their forties.

This "eminent London psychologist" is often referred to and I believe first surfaced in Wilkes book.  Without a name, credentials and testimony it lacks credibility.

I would imagine JB was formally assessed when he started his sentence to ensure he was not a risk to himself and others and was in the right type of prison?  I believe he has been assessed annually during his incarceration and nothing untoward has been identified?
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

david1819

  • Guest
Re: Has Jeremy ever been assessed for psychopathy?
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2015, 12:18:55 AM »
This "eminent London psychologist" is often referred to and I believe first surfaced in Wilkes book.  Without a name, credentials and testimony it lacks credibility.

I would imagine JB was formally assessed when he started his sentence to ensure he was not a risk to himself and others and was in the right type of prison?  I believe he has been assessed annually during his incarceration and nothing untoward has been identified?

Well assuming is not really reliable. Even if he does have psychopathy it doesn't prove him guilty. Some people have said he is rather strange/scary and other have not

Offline Passer-by

Re: Has Jeremy ever been assessed for psychopathy?
« Reply #27 on: July 31, 2015, 12:18:58 AM »
Apparently people who commit Familicide usually do so after a massive down-turn in their fortunes, so that they can no longer cope with the shame, guilt, humiliation of the outcome.  I can't see that JB had suffered such misfortunes nearly so much as the girl whose modelling career was over, whose marriage was over, whose genetic mother rejected her after meeting her and who was struggling to look after her children.

If it was JB it was surely for money - or to be rid of an annoying bunch of people.

The unfortunate fact is, it could have been either of them.  It is also worth bearing in mind that plenty of people - particularly at that immature age - say they hate their parents (some every day when they are teenagers!).  Quite possibly JB did hate his parents - but that doesn't mean he killed them.

You are surrounded by psychopaths:  they are everywhere!  Most of them don't murder their families however :-)

I heartily recommend this little book for some further insight - into yourselves as well!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/In-Sheeps-Clothing-Understanding-Manipulative/dp/1935166301/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

Also, if you've ever had Valium you'll know how serene it can make you feel.  The photo of him looking directly at the camera was taken, I believe, whilst he was being taken out after questioning - after a long day of that, probably without Valium, I'd say he looks a lot more concerned.  I think if you watch clips on YouTube of him being yanked around in handcuffs you can wonder if these still of the same events are truly representative of what he looked like.

I have a little theory about Aspergers Syndrome:  I know some people think this is trotted out as a tired excuse all the time, but I have autism in my own family and have done A LOT of research on the subject in the last 5 years as it greatly affected my life.  Reading the snippets of police interviews someone has posted elsewhere on here, JB's answers were exactly the kind of answers my 12 year old with Aspergers would give:  they are literal answers, because people with autism take what is said literally (this leads to many huge rows and a lot of silly conversations in my house!).  Where he says 'no comment' is wherever he has tried to fathom the ineptly-posed question but given up.  This accounts for the answers seeming so Smart-Alec.  And the dumb-ass remark in court saying "that's what you have to establish" (a turn of phrase I believe his lawyer also used?) - that response is the sort of thing my husband would say (he would also be dumb enough to enter the house via a window rather than delay his objective by getting the keys, and he would also be idiot enough to TELL the police all this under caution in an interview if he had done nothing wrong so would see nothing wrong with it - lack of theory of mind means they don't realise other people don't know what they know, and they know what they did was harmless).  This could also account for many people finding the way he was behaving as 'odd':  he wouldn't know how he was expected behave, and would behave how he feels.

So I wonder if JB has ever been seen by an educational psychologist?  It might also explain his poor performance at school and his extremely unfortunate handwriting.  Extremely unfortunate:  identical, in fact, to several serial killers?!)

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Has Jeremy ever been assessed for psychopathy?
« Reply #28 on: July 31, 2015, 08:01:02 AM »
Apparently people who commit Familicide usually do so after a massive down-turn in their fortunes, so that they can no longer cope with the shame, guilt, humiliation of the outcome.  I can't see that JB had suffered such misfortunes nearly so much as the girl whose modelling career was over, whose marriage was over, whose genetic mother rejected her after meeting her and who was struggling to look after her children.

If it was JB it was surely for money - or to be rid of an annoying bunch of people.

The unfortunate fact is, it could have been either of them.  It is also worth bearing in mind that plenty of people - particularly at that immature age - say they hate their parents (some every day when they are teenagers!).  Quite possibly JB did hate his parents - but that doesn't mean he killed them.

You are surrounded by psychopaths:  they are everywhere!  Most of them don't murder their families however :-)

I heartily recommend this little book for some further insight - into yourselves as well!
http://www.amazon.co.uk/In-Sheeps-Clothing-Understanding-Manipulative/dp/1935166301/ref=dp_ob_title_bk

Also, if you've ever had Valium you'll know how serene it can make you feel.  The photo of him looking directly at the camera was taken, I believe, whilst he was being taken out after questioning - after a long day of that, probably without Valium, I'd say he looks a lot more concerned.  I think if you watch clips on YouTube of him being yanked around in handcuffs you can wonder if these still of the same events are truly representative of what he looked like.

I have a little theory about Aspergers Syndrome:  I know some people think this is trotted out as a tired excuse all the time, but I have autism in my own family and have done A LOT of research on the subject in the last 5 years as it greatly affected my life.  Reading the snippets of police interviews someone has posted elsewhere on here, JB's answers were exactly the kind of answers my 12 year old with Aspergers would give:  they are literal answers, because people with autism take what is said literally (this leads to many huge rows and a lot of silly conversations in my house!).  Where he says 'no comment' is wherever he has tried to fathom the ineptly-posed question but given up.  This accounts for the answers seeming so Smart-Alec.  And the dumb-ass remark in court saying "that's what you have to establish" (a turn of phrase I believe his lawyer also used?) - that response is the sort of thing my husband would say (he would also be dumb enough to enter the house via a window rather than delay his objective by getting the keys, and he would also be idiot enough to TELL the police all this under caution in an interview if he had done nothing wrong so would see nothing wrong with it - lack of theory of mind means they don't realise other people don't know what they know, and they know what they did was harmless).  This could also account for many people finding the way he was behaving as 'odd':  he wouldn't know how he was expected behave, and would behave how he feels.

So I wonder if JB has ever been seen by an educational psychologist?  It might also explain his poor performance at school and his extremely unfortunate handwriting.  Extremely unfortunate:  identical, in fact, to several serial killers?!)

I'm not sure SC's birth mother, Christine, rejected her?  She may not have been in a position to offer the sort of relationship SC was looking for as she lived in Canada and her life with her family was there.  I guess someone in SC's vulnerable state could perceive this as a rejection of sorts.

JB obtained 7 O levels at Greshams.  No indication of the grades to determine whether his educational achievements were above or below the average countrywide.  He flunked two A levels.  Having corresponded a little with JB  I would describe his writing skills on par with my own.  I haven't noticed any problems with spelling or handwriting.  Yes he writes in capitals but he wrote like that pre-prison and I think its just a style. 

Are you maybe getting muddled with dyslexia and Aspergers Syndrome?  They are  quite different.  Dyslexia is problems with reading and writing although these people normally score high on IQ tests.  Aspergers is difficulty with social skills.  I don't see JB having AS.  By all accounts he was somewhat of a babe magnet and quite successful chatting up women which is the sort of thing someone with AS would struggle with.

It seems to me JB had a very good relationship with NB.  Had been close to SC but found her mental illness difficult to understand.  Was very fond of the twins as most adults would be.  But like SC he had a difficult relationship with June who imo should never had been approved to adopt based on her long history of psychiatric problems before SC or JB were even conceived.  There can be little doubt June was a very decent person on all fronts and I am sure well intentioned when she adopted SC and JB but the fact remains she should not have been approved to adopt based on her history. 

I don't think there's anything particularly strange about JB's behaviour during his police interviews or at trial.  How do any of us know how we would react if we lost our entire immediate family and were then accused of murdering them.  We also have to look at JB's background ie being adopted and going to boarding school.  I'm not saying there's anything sinister there but these things shape a person and if he's a little different, or perceived to be different, then this might account for that.  Most people aren't adopted and don't attend boarding school.  An analogy might be Prince William who is unique because he was born to be a king and no other male in this country apart from Charles was born to be king! 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: Has Jeremy ever been assessed for psychopathy?
« Reply #29 on: July 31, 2015, 08:22:11 AM »

Having corresponded a little with JB  I would describe his writing skills on par with my own.
  I haven't noticed any problems with spelling or handwriting.  Yes he writes in capitals but he wrote like that pre-prison and I think its just a style.

YOU MUST BE PSYCHOPATHIC!

Definitely something creepy, as most children in the 1960's were taught to write in longhand, and did so throughout their teenage years and beyond.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.