Has Jeremy ever been assessed for psychopathy?

[Passer-by]

I haven't read any "Mike Tesko crap":  the only context I've ever come arose him is in unfavourable comments about him on here.  Could you expand?

[Angelo222]

I haven't read any "Mike Tesko crap":  the only context I've ever come arose him is in unfavourable comments about him on here.  Could you expand?

Your reference to secret evidence is typically the sort of stuff we constantly hear from his minuscule band of internet warriors.  No offence meant.

[Passer-by]

Unequivocally more information has been released, and was therefore held in secret.  Your post is pretty offensive actually:  I've never discussed the topic with anyone else before.  Your previous link to umpteen reasons why it could not be Sheila:  they were pretty subjective.

I had thought this was a forum where things were discussed, but you seem keen to shut down debate.

[Holly Goodhead]

Thank you for your reply Daisy:  I didn't know he had dyslexia but that gives credence to what I'm saying, I suspect he may have learning disabilities which have caused him not to present himself as well as he might (especially in this modern age of 'spin', selfies and social media, which he has missed).  I think he has definitely suffered from people judging a book by its cover and is lucky to have people like you who are protective of him. 

But I think also your perceptions of Aspergers are a bit too stereotypical too:  none of the characteristics you describe preclude him from being on the high functioning end of the autism spectrum - thousands of people don't realise they have it (it was a hell of a shock when it landed in our family - we thought we were all perfectly normal - that's why we hadn't spotted it  )

To me, the answers he gives in the police interviews which other people have said were arrogant, just seem like he's trying to answer factually but can't quite understand what they are trying to get out of him - the person doing the questions doesn't exactly phrase them very well either.  They sound like a classic pre-ding dong chat round my dining table ;-)

There is a body of work out there investigating the differences and similarities between autistes, sociopaths and psychopaths, which have their own little spectrum as well:  people were much more judgemental and ignorant in the 80s about other people's slight differences.  Inoticed elsewhere that Ann Eaton used his thank you card from the flowers as evidence - possibly trying to link it to the capital lettered graffiti in the cupboard:  from what you have said it shows how little she must have known the family if she didn't know it was his usual writing?

No matter how nice you are about him, there is no getting away from the fact he was a complete Klutz the way he handled some things, which as he seems to be an intelligent man he must surely now recognise and regret.  So are you certain he has been tested for Aspergers?  It wouldn't be the same as tests for psychopathy I don't think.

Perhaps immaturity and naivety.

I think if JB had suffered any mental illness, personality disorder or cognitive problems it would have been identified when psychiatric reports were compiled post trial or during ongoing assessments.  If he had learning difficulties then it would have been picked up at Greshams.  I don't see any evidence of dyslexia in his letters.  I've worked alongside Oxbridge graduates with first class honours degrees and some have been poor spellers with equally poor handwriting but not dyslexic.  (I was their tea lady).

If you are interested in autistic spectrum disorders you might be interested in books etc by Prof Simon Baron-Cohen.  In the following vid he explains the differences between those with zero empathy which include psychopaths and those on the autistic spectrum.  Psychopaths are often cruel and those with ASD are not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq_nCTGSfWE

[Holly Goodhead]

Unequivocally more information has been released, and was therefore held in secret.  Your post is pretty offensive actually:  I've never discussed the topic with anyone else before.  Your previous link to umpteen reasons why it could not be Sheila:  they were pretty subjective.

I had thought this was a forum where things were discussed, but you seem keen to shut down debate.

According to CAL's book P399 all documents previously held under PII have now been released to JB.  Personally I think JB is p*****g in the wind if he thinks he's going to strike gold rummaging through documents.  The only way his case can move in a different direction will be as a result of new forensic evidence capable of challenging the prosecutions case.

[Angelo222]

Unequivocally more information has been released, and was therefore held in secret.  Your post is pretty offensive actually:  I've never discussed the topic with anyone else before.  Your previous link to umpteen reasons why it could not be Sheila:  they were pretty subjective.

I had thought this was a forum where things were discussed, but you seem keen to shut down debate.

As I stated in my post, no offence meant.  This constant regurgitation of a claim of hidden evidence is very tiresome.  Everything is known about the White House Farm murders sufficient to say categorically that Jeremy Bamber did it.

[Angelo222]

According to CAL's book P399 all documents previously held under PII have now been released to JB.  Personally I think JB is p*****g in the wind if he thinks he's going to strike gold rummaging through documents.  The only way his case can move in a different direction will be as a result of new forensic evidence capable of challenging the prosecutions case.

I agree about the 'pissing in the wind' but you cannot blame a chap for trying.  After all what has he got to lose?

[Passer-by]

Perhaps immaturity and naivety.

I think if JB had suffered any mental illness, personality disorder or cognitive problems it would have been identified when psychiatric reports were compiled post trial or during ongoing assessments.  If he had learning difficulties then it would have been picked up at Greshams.  I don't see any evidence of dyslexia in his letters.  I've worked alongside Oxbridge graduates with first class honours degrees and some have been poor spellers with equally poor handwriting but not dyslexic.  (I was their tea lady).

If you are interested in autistic spectrum disorders you might be interested in books etc by Prof Simon Baron-Cohen.  In the following vid he explains the differences between those with zero empathy which include psychopaths and those on the autistic spectrum.  Psychopaths are often cruel and those with ASD are not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq_nCTGSfWE

Thank you Holly:  I have a child with severe autism and one with aspergers, I've read pretty much every book and every article on the net ;-)

It was Simon Baron-Cohen's work on the difference between people with autism and psychopaths which I thought might be relevant:  I wonder if JB might dare be examined by him?!  Most research and understanding of ASD has only occurred in the last 15 years: it would not have been picked up at Greshams.  Einstein had it don't forget:  it's not a measure of intelligence, nor is it an illness - more a 'differently wired brain'.  In fact I'd say the understanding of autism has accelerated just in the 5 years I've known about. It's usually diagnosed by an educational psychologist which means it might be a different speciality/set of tick boxes. 

[Angelo222]

I would say that Jeremy was more predisposed to sociopathy than he was to psychopathy.

[Anna]

I would say that Jeremy was more predisposed to sociopathy than he was to psychopathy.

I agree, Angelo.
In my opinion, his Adoptive mother also possessed all the traits of a Sociopath.

[Anna]

Perhaps immaturity and naivety.

I think if JB had suffered any mental illness, personality disorder or cognitive problems it would have been identified when psychiatric reports were compiled post trial or during ongoing assessments.  If he had learning difficulties then it would have been picked up at Greshams.  I don't see any evidence of dyslexia in his letters.  I've worked alongside Oxbridge graduates with first class honours degrees and some have been poor spellers with equally poor handwriting but not dyslexic.  (I was their tea lady).

If you are interested in autistic spectrum disorders you might be interested in books etc by Prof Simon Baron-Cohen.  In the following vid he explains the differences between those with zero empathy which include psychopaths and those on the autistic spectrum.  Psychopaths are often cruel and those with ASD are not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq_nCTGSfWE

From:- White house farm murders….

Professor Egan found that Jeremy was not suffering from “clinical psychopathy or even mild psychopathy” Nor did he have any personality disorders. His risk assessment results placed him “in the “low” band for a final risk of violence judgment”

[Passer-by]

Sociopathy/lack of empathy is the main hindrance in life for people with ASD:  not picking up the right signals, the nuances, having to learn the correct response/behaviour instead of it coming intuitively.  People at the high functioning end blend in because they learn the most 'etiquette' but in unusual circumstances, where they have no prior pattern to follow, they tend to do things that seem slightly 'off' or completely unfathomable to neurotypical people.  When they're aware they can't cope and don't know what to do, they adopt a familiar routine or do something that they think acts as a cover but doesn't.  If my husband isn't coping socially he might suddenly decide to do the ironing, for example, or washing the kitchen windows - stuff he wouldn't normally do but it gives him an excuse not to talk to visitors who bore him (and so just looks rude  )

JB's genetic father is an Army Officer, which statistically is another major red flag. (My husband was too ;-) )

His response to the deaths was to take on the admin of the farm - mid-harvest and people on weekly wages that was critical - ask the secretary to tidy the office paperwork, ask his cousin to be Farm Manager, organise money and legal documents - and abdicate responsibility for everything unusual/personal to his female relatives and friends (AE seemed more than happy to barge in and take over!).  When someone dies there is a huge amount of admin:  when my mother died my father, who has been the executor of umpteen other people's wills and organised lots of funerals, went completely to pieces - he left pretty much everything to me.  We also ate out a lot because all the talking and decisions meant we weren't so good at doing the grocery shopping and it was just quicker,messier and frankly a relief to go to the village pub:  I has never occurred to me other people would find that odd/lacking in empathy/disrespectful?

The fact JB has never be shown to have any mental health issues (which are different to ASD) makes him different, yet again, to most of the other prisoners on a whole-life tariff.  A large component of the belief he committed the murders seems to rely on 'give a dog a bad name and hang him'.  I really don't find his behaviour too odd, in this day and age when we are more accepting of differences. 

I think one of his biggest mistakes was being influenced by Brett Collins, who sounds like a conman who took for a ride:  I wonder how much that Meissen clock REALLY fetched . . . ?  Was it him, staying in SC's flat, who found the topless modelling photos and took them to Fleet Street I wonder.  JB doesn't seem to be a very good judge of character (other flag for ASD).

[Holly Goodhead]

From:- White house farm murders….

Professor Egan found that Jeremy was not suffering from “clinical psychopathy or even mild psychopathy” Nor did he have any personality disorders. His risk assessment results placed him “in the “low” band for a final risk of violence judgment”

As far as I am aware the jury were unaware of June's complete mental health history.  They were told about her breakdown in 1982 which seems to have been attributed to religious mania.   They were told nothing about 1955 and 1958/9 and the root causes ie her inability to bear her own biological children and adopting her first child.

Dr Ferguson states in his interview with CAL that he was glad after all it wasn't SC.  Well of course he would be because if the jury had swung the other way his professional judgement would have been put under the spotlight.  Never mind being glad surely anyone in his position, ie consultant psychiatrist, would think we have adoptive parents, adopted siblings from different birth families and yet we end up with:

- adoptive mother breakdown: 1955, 1958, 1982
- adopted daughter breakdown: 1983 and 1985
- adopted son found guilty of murdering the above, his adoptive father and his adopted sister's twin sons: 1986

If that isn't a red flag to say there was something darker and deeper at work than plain old greed and hatred I don't what is  &%+((£

Adoptions during the so-called baby scoop era were based on societal stigma to illegitimacy.  Unlike nowadays where the very few babies put up for adoption are usually as a result of social services removing them due to the risk of abuse and neglect.  These babies are more likely to develop problems later on in life due to for example pregnant mothers being addicted to drink and drugs and harming the foetus.  Both SC and JB come from good genetic stock.  There doesn't seem to be any history of mental illness in June's side of the family?  &%+((£ 

[Holly Goodhead]

Sociopathy/lack of empathy is the main hindrance in life for people with ASD:  not picking up the right signals, the nuances, having to learn the correct response/behaviour instead of it coming intuitively.  People at the high functioning end blend in because they learn the most 'etiquette' but in unusual circumstances, where they have no prior pattern to follow, they tend to do things that seem slightly 'off' or completely unfathomable to neurotypical people.  When they're aware they can't cope and don't know what to do, they adopt a familiar routine or do something that they think acts as a cover but doesn't.  If my husband isn't coping socially he might suddenly decide to do the ironing, for example, or washing the kitchen windows - stuff he wouldn't normally do but it gives him an excuse not to talk to visitors who bore him (and so just looks rude  )

JB's genetic father is an Army Officer, which statistically is another major red flag. (My husband was too ;-) )

His response to the deaths was to take on the admin of the farm - mid-harvest and people on weekly wages that was critical - ask the secretary to tidy the office paperwork, ask his cousin to be Farm Manager, organise money and legal documents - and abdicate responsibility for everything unusual/personal to his female relatives and friends (AE seemed more than happy to barge in and take over!).  When someone dies there is a huge amount of admin:  when my mother died my father, who has been the executor of umpteen other people's wills and organised lots of funerals, went completely to pieces - he left pretty much everything to me.  We also ate out a lot because all the talking and decisions meant we weren't so good at doing the grocery shopping and it was just quicker,messier and frankly a relief to go to the village pub:  I has never occurred to me other people would find that odd/lacking in empathy/disrespectful?

The fact JB has never be shown to have any mental health issues (which are different to ASD) makes him different, yet again, to most of the other prisoners on a whole-life tariff.  A large component of the belief he committed the murders seems to rely on 'give a dog a bad name and hang him'.  I really don't find his behaviour too odd, in this day and age when we are more accepting of differences. 

I think one of his biggest mistakes was being influenced by Brett Collins, who sounds like a conman who took for a ride:  I wonder how much that Meissen clock REALLY fetched . . . ?  Was it him, staying in SC's flat, who found the topless modelling photos and took them to Fleet Street I wonder.  JB doesn't seem to be a very good judge of character (other flag for ASD).

JB's birth father was in positions of leadership within the army.  This normally requires a high degree of emotional intelligence something that those on the ASD struggle with?

Sociopathy and lack of empathy are care completely different in terms of ASD. 

Those with ASD struggle with empathy as they are unable to put themselves in the shoes of others but generally they are the one group lacking in empathy where it does not lead to acts of cruelty or anti-social behaviour.  Interestingly the banker who was convicted yesterday for rigging the Libor rate was said to suffer from mild Aspergers Syndrome. 

Sociopathy is acting in an anti-social way.

Personally I don't see JB as anything other than main stream.  Most of us have foibles, quirks and idiosyncrasies    It's what makes us all different and unique?   

[John]

A large component of the belief he committed the murders seems to rely on 'give a dog a bad name and hang him'.  I really don't find his behaviour too odd, in this day and age when we are more accepting of differences. 

No, I don't accept that unless you mean people who base their opinion on newspaper reports.

For anyone who has studied the evidence Jeremy Bamber has to be guilty.