Holiday firm leaves resort where Madeleine McCann disappeared.

[Anna]

"Every hour now, I still ask myself, 'Why did I think that was safe?' But it did feel safe and so right. I do feel regret. I've gone through all my life and said I never want to have any regrets, but you can't not regret something like that."
http://www.mccannfiles.com/id16.html

[Alfred R Jones]

In an interview with a Swedish magazine, Kate said: “At times we have felt so desperately guilty. As Madeleine’s parents we had failed to keep her safe and will always struggle to bear that guilt.

“If the same thing had happened to another family we would have been amazed they had left their children alone. And we’re guilty! There are so many times we chide ourselves for doing that.”

[Bert Singe]

All I can say is you're very good at seeing what you want to see and not what is actually written.  Should've gone to Specsavers, mate.

"  It wasn't (IMO) about selfishly disregarding the kids wants and needs, though of course you will choose to see it otherwise. "

Sorry, perhaps I misunderstood what IMO meant but I doubt it. It was you who gave 2 scenarios (unsupervised in an unlocked apartment or present and supervised by the poolside).

The most selfish option they chose was to leave them unsupervised. A less selfish option may have been the scenario you introduced which is taking them with them. The unselfish option was obviously dining early and staying in to supervise them.

[Benice]

In an interview with a Swedish magazine, Kate said: “At times we have felt so desperately guilty. As Madeleine’s parents we had failed to keep her safe and will always struggle to bear that guilt.

“If the same thing had happened to another family we would have been amazed they had left their children alone. And we’re guilty! There are so many times we chide ourselves for doing that.”

Quote from Kate's book

.......however unwittingly we'd given this predator an opportunity.  We had not been there for Madeleine. And, as I've said before and will say again, our guilt over that is a heavv cross we will bear for the rest of our lives.
Page 202
Unquote

[Alfred R Jones]

"  It wasn't (IMO) about selfishly disregarding the kids wants and needs, though of course you will choose to see it otherwise. "

Sorry, perhaps I misunderstood what IMO meant but I doubt it. It was you who gave 2 scenarios (unsupervised in an unlocked apartment or present and supervised by the poolside).

The most selfish option they chose was to leave them unsupervised. A less selfish option may have been the scenario you introduced which is taking them with them. The unselfish option was obviously dining early and staying in to supervise them.

You missed out this bit from my post:  "I think the McCanns and their friends chose an option that they thought would suit everyone best" - I don't think they were being selfish, foolish maybe, but not selfish.  You think they were selfish and foolish, that's perhaps the difference between us (although I'm not sure where you stand on parental involvement in the disappearance, in which case we're poles apart).

[Alfred R Jones]

Quote from Kate's book

.......however unwittingly we'd given this predator an opportunity.  We had not been there for Madeleine. And, as I've said before and will say again, our guilt over that is a heavv cross we will bear for the rest of our lives.
Page 202
Unquote

Yes Benice, but if only the McCanns would say they did something wrong and show a modicum of guilt then we might not hate them so much. 

Oh.

[Alice Purjorick]

Sigh ... if you are answering the post you will possibly have noticed that it was in response to another post and posts. 

It is called taking part in a discussion, which is probably quite appropriate for a "discussion forum".

Let me give you some assistance here ... perhaps you could have joined the discussion by phrasing your query in a less antagonistic fashion.

Then maybe you are feeling a bit bruised at having OT posts removed and consider this to be one; have no fear on that score, my wings get clipped too when threads are tidied up ... so the one which is causing you concern may stand or it may whoosh depending on the level of its irrelevance.

Let's try to address your concern about being OT now. 

Perhaps MW did give some thought to the management of the complex ... and although we are aware of the vulnerability of apartment 5a ... there may have been others which are equally as vulnerable and difficult to police. 

Maybe holiday accommodation spread out over a large area which consisted of properties in the midst of many in owner occupation was considered impractical or just too expensive to secure and manage.

I'm not really privy to the commercial reasons behind MW decision to quit ... maybe you can come up with something?

I asked two perfectly reasonable questions neither of which was couched in antagonistic terms.
You have failed to address either adequately.
Nuff said

[Alfred R Jones]

I asked two perfectly reasonable questions neither of which was couched in antagonistic terms.
You have failed to address either adequately.
Nuff said

Hi Alice, with respect to the title of this thread, what's your view on the relevance of the parents McCann's alleged selfishness (or otherwise) on Mark Warners decision to pull out of PdL? 

[Alfred R Jones]

Interesting comment here from a Mumsnetter - not specifically about the OC but with some relevant bits about ground floor apartments and break ins:

Pattypooped  Sun 19-Aug-12 01:18:52



We came back from the ALgarve today. We stayed at Lagos but visited Praia da Luz twice.

I was reluctant to go to Luz, not because I was worried but because I have two daughters and was very upset about what happened to Madeleine Mccann at the time. I was persuaded to go for the afternoon and once I'd got over it being 'that' resort, I found it a very likeable and child friendly place, such that we returned a few days later for drinks on the beach.

I probably couldn't cope with staying at the MW resort, I'd find it too sad TBH but the luz area itself is really nice.

The sea was indeed freezing at Luz, however much warmer in other places such as Lagos, which is just up the road (I cannot account for why this would be). The food in Portugal was generally OK but the children's food was awful (I know, I know, they should eat what we eat - but my kids don't go a bundle on the whole octopus thing that's so prevalent in the Algarve!).

We stayed in a ground floor apartment we found through 'Owners Abroad.' I was wary of staying on the ground floor but felt the first floor more risky with a curious 3 year old that cannot be trusted not to climb. The owners assured me it was very safe (it had fences around it and a locked gate), however two men were witnessed trying to break into our apartment at 4am during the first week by pulling up the shutters. They were disturbed by a neighbour. I was completely freaked out and hardly slept any night after that. We ended up wedging everything with broom handles to prevent a break-in.

For the money you spend, I'd rather go independently. We paid £3,200 for four of us - this included flights with Monarch, 14 days car hire from the airport and a lovely two bedroomed apartment with shared pools (lovely apart from the security issue, obviously!). I would go back, and we toyed with Praia da Luz as somewhere to stay next year but we think there's more going on in Lagos.

I'd never stay in a ground floor (or otherwise accessible) apartment again though. We ALWAYS fully locked all windows and doors and had all the shutters fully closed but according to the neighbours this would not deter intruders as they can force the shutters up against the motor and lift the non-moving patio door up to remove it from the frame. The way to prevent this is to place batteries along the top of the frame to narrow the gap in which it can be lifted.

[Alice Purjorick]

Hi Alice, with respect to the title of this thread, what's your view on the relevance of the parents McCann's alleged selfishness (or otherwise) on Mark Warners decision to pull out of PdL?

In my opinion the decision will have been taken solely on financial grounds.I can think of plenty of possibilities none of which will involve mentioning the name McCann. So selfishness of McCann's or any other clients and how exposed a few apartments may or may not be will hardly have figured in the decision. According to companies house it is a private company; nonetheless someone somewhere will be expecting a reasonable return on investment for the whole range of the company's activities.  If one sector is not performing for what ever reason it may make sense to cut back on that sector to provide more investment into the areas which are providing the best returns. It is hardly complicated. One would hope that posters on here operate in a similar manner with their own investments.

[Bert Singe]

You missed out this bit from my post:  "I think the McCanns and their friends chose an option that they thought would suit everyone best" - I don't think they were being selfish, foolish maybe, but not selfish.  You think they were selfish and foolish, that's perhaps the difference between us (although I'm not sure where you stand on parental involvement in the disappearance, in which case we're poles apart).

Does "everyone" translate as " the adults" social plans? Which ever way you spin it the children should have been supervised be it inside or outside but with an adults presence.
 
Staying in (unselfish). Taking them with them (selfish to a degree) because it would have affected their sleep - BECAUSE THEY FOOLISHLY HAD NO BUGGY. Leaving them unattended in an unlocked apartment (clearly the most selfish of all).

[Brietta]

Does "everyone" translate as " the adults" social plans? Which ever way you spin it the children should have been supervised be it inside or outside but with an adults presence.
 
Staying in (unselfish). Taking them with them (selfish to a degree) because it would have affected their sleep - BECAUSE THEY FOOLISHLY HAD NO BUGGY. Leaving them unattended in an unlocked apartment (clearly the most selfish of all).

As a matter of interest ...
(a)   how easy is it to transport a double buggy by air? 
(b)   did the holiday company supply buggies for hire?

The McCann twins were toddlers who apparently had no difficulty walking ... so why was it foolish that they had not brought a buggy with them for what was in essence a very short break?

[Miss Taken Identity]

Happy new years to one and all... Yes even you!

Surprised to find out about the closure of the holiday Resort, I do believe the McCann affair did lead to bad publicity- hence would have affected profits. If profits were receding before then this mess would not have helped any I am sure.

It could have helped if every mention of the 'abduction' covered by the MSM included that it may NEVER have happened IF the parents had not left the children alone..but well... never mind.

[Anna]

Not bad news after all
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Posted by portugalpress on January 08, 2015 - See more at: http://portugalresident.com/exclusive-%E2%80%9Cmark-warner-pulls-out-of-praia-da-luz%E2%80%9D-the-real-story#sthash.hwpfpD6v.dpuf
Portugal Resident


Exclusive: “Mark Warner pulls out of Praia da Luz” - the real story



News that holiday company Mark Warner has pulled out of Praia da Luz’s Ocean Club resort has been doing the rounds of mainstream media - particularly in UK - and been angled to suggest that the holiday resort has somehow been further stigmatised by the legacy of the disappearance of Madeleine McCann. This couldn’t be further from the truth.

In fact, we are told, what has happened promises to bring a whole new wave of business both to the Ocean Club and the village of Luz.

Portugal Resident got wind of the story before Christmas when internet forums began speculating that “the curse of the McCanns has finally done it to Praia da Luz”.

They were reacting to the announcement online by The Vacation Company website which said: “We regret to inform you that Mark Warner no longer have a contract with the Ocean Club and therefore this property has been removed from their Summer 2015 programme with immediate effect.”

But as Ocean Club manager Donna Hill told us, they were reacting without knowing the facts.

Mark Warner’s owners, Mark Chitty and Andrew Searle, had simply decided to offer the Ocean Club exclusively to travel company Thomas Cook.

Chitty and Searle’s holiday company has pulled out of Portugal - not because of any fall-off in business over the disappearance of Madeleine McCann but because Thomas Cook has offered them “a very good deal”, said Ms Hill.

“We’re all excited about it,” she added. “This is actually a golden opportunity for the Ocean Club as now everyone staying here will come from the same operator and we will be able to offer the same services for all our guests.

“This didn’t happen before as we had some people staying on the resort that came through Mark Warner and others that didn’t.

“It made organising activities extremely difficult, whereas now we’ll be able to put things on for everyone equally.

“We are all looking forward to it - and we’re hoping for an excellent 2015 season!”

In fact, despite the Madeleine “legacy” which still sees periodic moments of media chaos as police return to the Algarve to initiate new inquiries, business in Luz has been steadily growing with locals last year reporting a very good summer all round.

“It’s what everyone wants,” explained one shopkeeper. “We all just want to get on with our lives and our businesses and forget the bad press attached to the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.”

http://portugalresident.com/exclusive-%E2%80%9Cmark-warner-pulls-out-of-praia-da-luz%E2%80%9D-the-real-story

[Brietta]

Not such bad news for the OC after all 

http://portugalresident.com/exclusive-%E2%80%9Cmark-warner-pulls-out-of-praia-da-luz%E2%80%9D-the-real-story

Puts an entirely more positive angle, Anna, thank you for bringing it to our attention.

I can only echo the hope for the future of the resort.

**Snip

“We’re all excited about it,” she added. “This is actually a golden opportunity for the Ocean Club as now everyone staying here will come from the same operator and we will be able to offer the same services for all our guests.

“This didn’t happen before as we had some people staying on the resort that came through Mark Warner and others that didn’t.

“It made organising activities extremely difficult, whereas now we’ll be able to put things on for everyone equally.

“We are all looking forward to it - and we’re hoping for an excellent 2015 season!”

- See more at: http://portugalresident.com/exclusive-%E2%80%9Cmark-warner-pulls-out-of-praia-da-luz%E2%80%9D-the-real-story#sthash.cfrxTugR.dpuf