Sheila re loading. Twice.

[david1819]

I'm on a warning, apparently, so I can't be too contentious, but....please explain to me how the gun was free of Sheila's prints. She shot her family, she used the gun as a club when she battered Ralph, then she shot herself. Twice. So....why isn't the gun covered in her prints? How did she wipe them off?

From what I understand. They found both Shelia and Jeremy's print on the gun. from the CCRC report

72. The weapon was also examined for fingerprints. A print from the
    appellant's right forefinger was found on the breech end of the barrel, above the stock
    and pointing across the gun and Sheila Caffell's right ring fingerprint was found on the
    right side of the butt, pointing downwards. There were three further finger marks on the
    rifle, each of insufficient detail for identification purposes.

Remember the police hade moved the gun at the scene. Then would have been handled inappropriately thereafter until it became a murder investigation. making it rather inconsistent in terms of fingerprint evidence

[puglove]

From what I understand. They found both Shelia and Jeremy's print on the gun. from the CCRC report

Remember the police hade moved the gun at the scene. Then would have been handled inappropriately thereafter until it became a murder investigation. making it rather inconsistent in terms of fingerprint evidence

Sorry, david, but you're a bit wrong there. The gun was lifted from Sheila's body by the trigger surround. With, according to Mike, a pencil.

But....it still doesn't explain why Sheila's prints were'nt all over the gun.

[puglove]

Sorry, david, but you're a bit wrong there. The gun was lifted from Sheila's body by the trigger surround. With, according to Mike, a pencil.

But....it still doesn't explain why Sheila's prints were'nt all over the gun.

Good luck with explaining how Sheila wiped out her entire family with not a scrap of evidence.

And....boo hoo, Jeremy Bamber.

You're going nowhere, Sonny Jim. 

Ho Ho!!!!

[scipio_usmc]

Shelia didn't like guns therefore could not use one is a poor argument.

I don't like cars but I have a full license. My Grandfather does not like computers but still manages to e-mail me. So are you saying that it was not me that passed my driving test, That someone else such as a cloned imposter took my driving test because I don't like cars? That someone else must be behind all my Grandfathers online correspondence because he does not like computers?

Oh as I goes and my Dad can testify I have watched a few episodes of Laurel and Hardy with him!
But I have no interest in Laurel and Hardy! Cant have happened then! a Myth! Never watched it, It was a clone of me that was present with my father!

You didn;'t hate driving enough to not bother learning how to drive and not obtianing a license.  Your grandfather doesn't hate computers enough not to use them.  In contrast she didn't have enough interest in guns to allow anyone to teach her.  Anyone can see how different the circumstances are.

[david1819]

Good luck with explaining how Sheila wiped out her entire family with not a scrap of evidence.

And....boo hoo, Jeremy Bamber.

You're going nowhere, Sonny Jim. 

Ho Ho!!!!

Well Shelia and Jeremy both lived for considerable time at the crime scene and visited often. Finding prints and DNA round the house wont mean anything. compounded with the botched crime scene.

[John]

You have to take scipio as you find him. I think he's brilliant.

Anyhoo. The general consensus seems to be that, because Sheila grew up on a farm, she could automatically.....

drive a tractor

hitch up a trailer

shoot game and vermin

cook scones for the W.I.

stack bales

keep chickens

make a stirrup cup

arrange flowers for the local church



But she couldn't even drive a car. She had no interest in farming or farming life.

I totally agree, I grew up on a farm where shotguns were used regularly but I was never interested in them.  If I recall I fired a shotgun only once under supervision and I must admit I wasn't impressed. 

Sheila would have been completely out of her depth using a rifle to do what was done at White House Farm.  Had she got her hands on the rifle and managed to fire it she would have still been overpowered immediately.  A rampage through the house for Sheila has always been a non starter.

[scipio_usmc]

From what I understand. They found both Shelia and Jeremy's print on the gun. from the CCRC report

Remember the police hade moved the gun at the scene. Then would have been handled inappropriately thereafter until it became a murder investigation. making it rather inconsistent in terms of fingerprint evidence

There was only a single print from each and neither was in the blood.  That is one of the mistakes he made, the killer's prints woudl have been int he blood that was on the gun.  Jeremy to Julie he had Sheila touch the gun before the murders to get her prints on it.  The blood covered up all but one of her prints that he managed to get on the gun though so they could not be lifted.  While using the gun with gloves he also coudl have ende dup wiping away some of the prints he managed to stage.  What he should have done was after the murders to stick her hands on the gun in the wet blood to get her prints in the blood.  He wore gloves hence why he didn't get his prints in the blood. By the time he was done removing the moderator, putting the moderator away, moving her body flat and  and sticking the gun on her body the blood on the rifle was dry hence why it didn't stransfer from the rifle to her gown. Fingerprints don't mean much because they can be deposited anytime.  Prints in blood can't be delosited anytime they had to be deposited during the murders so are key.  He missed a golden opportunity becaus ehe lacked forensic knowledge. 
 
The police moved the gun by holding the swivels the shoulder strap attaches to. They didn't touch the gun itself.

[Holly Goodhead]

Part of the prosecution's case was as follows (taken from the CoA) doc:

f) Her long fingernails were still intact and undamaged.

DB also states at 6.30 in "Her nails were still perfect"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo

The following vid featuring Beautiful Ash with long fingernails shooting a AKS-74 Clone - Arsenal SLR-105r shows that it is possible to load and fire a firearm with long nails without causing any damage.  Her long nails are particularly noticeable during the first 20 secs as she points to various points on the gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc9K9GYdtUc

Well done Beautiful Ash    Thanks on behalf of the UK Justice Forum 

[Myster]

Pffft!... the first shot missed the target, and by the time she fired off the second even a 7 stone weakling could have knocked it out of her hand!

I'm sure "Beautiful Ash" will be reading UK Justice Forum and appreciate your good wishes.

[Holly Goodhead]

FAO SCIPIO

Skipio I have emailed Bunny Hunter and sent her a synopsis of the WHF case.  I have asked if she is prepared to join us on the forum to discuss firearms with our resident 'expert' ie your good self; particularly whether or not loading the mag, chambering a round and  firing the semi-auto would present any particular difficulty to someone with little experience.  If Bunny agrees to join us are you prepared to join in too and if so what dates and times are best for you?  Thanks Scipio.  Holly.

Bunny Hunter's bio:

http://bunnyhunterusa.com/bunny-hunter-bio/

Bunny in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IKX4XxvT0VA

Bunny Hunter in the Daily Mail and Telegraph:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2718008/Is-Floridas-answer-Duck-Dynasty-Barbie-look-alike-Bunny-Hunter-God-fearing-gun-wielding-survivalist-wants-inspire-women.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/howaboutthat/11013879/Barbie-look-a-like-Bunny-Hunter-is-a-gun-enthusiast.html

[puglove]

Part of the prosecution's case was as follows (taken from the CoA) doc:

f) Her long fingernails were still intact and undamaged.

DB also states at 6.30 in "Her nails were still perfect"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_i2CjYDJGTo

The following vid featuring Beautiful Ash with long fingernails shooting a AKS-74 Clone - Arsenal SLR-105r shows that it is possible to load and fire a firearm with long nails without causing any damage.  Her long nails are particularly noticeable during the first 20 secs as she points to various points on the gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yc9K9GYdtUc

Well done Beautiful Ash    Thanks on behalf of the UK Justice Forum 

Ho ho!! Bamber -The New Evidence.....or.....Mark Williams-Thomas does "Look Around You."

I'd forgotten just how lame that was - what on earth was MWT thinking?

[Myster]

Backed a winner there Holls... how completely different can you get from Sheila Caffell!!! 

Somehow I don't think Bunny Hunter will have monthly Haldol injections, or won't drive a car (automobile in American lingo).

[Holly Goodhead]

Backed a winner there Holls... how completely different can you get from Sheila Caffell!!! 

Somehow I don't think Bunny Hunter will have monthly Haldol injections, or won't drive a car (automobile in American lingo).

But we know SC's fine motor skills were ok as she was able to:

- Shape her eyebrows
- Manicure and polish her nails
- Apply full face make-up
- Style her hair

All evidenced in soc photo and other recent photos.

How to shape your eyebrows - see following vid.  About 7 min in she starts plucking.  Impossible to do without fine motor skills:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGjR2aqkbVQ

How to give yourself a manicure.  Again impossible to do without fine motor skills

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4bqpihDPnA

SC left WHF at 17 yoa to live in London.  It appears SC had a lack of funds to learn to drive and to run a car.  In any event there's no evidence she went out of London other than to visit WHF so why would she want to be bothered with a car given the traffic and parking problems?

http://www.greenlandkid.com/5-reasons-to-not-drive-in-london/

AE's case is that SC had poor hand/eye co-ordination, was unable to bang beans on toast or pour a cup of tea and learn to drive?

[Holly Goodhead]

Ho ho!! Bamber -The New Evidence.....or.....Mark Williams-Thomas does "Look Around You."

I'd forgotten just how lame that was - what on earth was MWT thinking?

Yes I agree it was truly awful.  My bugbear with it is that it is dominated by males.  That makes me so mad 

[Holly Goodhead]

Fine motor skills:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fine_motor_skill