Author Topic: Sheila re loading. Twice.  (Read 56699 times)

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Offline puglove

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #135 on: February 03, 2015, 10:38:51 PM »
So this lightly-built 5'7" young woman hammered the rifle butt several times into the face of her strapping 6'4" father, who she apparently loved dearly, gifting him with two black eyes, heavy bruising, lacerations and broken facial bones, before finishing him off with four accurately placed bullets.  All without getting sprayed with blood!  Yep... sure makes sense to me!

If Sheila attacked an already severely injured Ralph with a lump of wood and metal, she must have been standing about 2/3 feet away from him. As you say, without receiving a single speck of blood on her. And if she showered afterwards, when and how did she dry her hair? And put her watch back on? And where are the heavily blood-stained clothes that she must have worn? And, as scipio has pointed out, where are her fingerprints in the blood on the gun? And where are her bloodied footprints, back upstairs (on the carpet) to the main bedroom? And where are the soaking towels she used to dry herself? Her bag is tipped out on the spare bed when she needed a tampon, so why aren't the drawers open and tipped out if she needed a clean nightie and pants? And....if she had the time to do all this, why didn't she leave a note? Anything to explain why she felt so tortured and desperate that she had to kill her children?
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline puglove

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #136 on: February 03, 2015, 10:42:25 PM »
I think gender and size are unimportant if the perp was able to inflict life threatening wounds before NB was able to defend himself.  The injuries NB sustained in the bedroom, according to the pathology report, would have resulted in death had the gunshot wounds he sustained in the kitchen not supervened.  The injuries NB sustained in the bedroom caused "substantial" loss of blood internally and externally, "extreme" pain and total impairment of his left arm.  It is not clear to me from the pathology report whether the black eyes and bruising (and possibly other injuries) were caused  from bullets ricocheting internally or blows from the rifle.  The accurately placed bullets you refer to were fired from a distance of a few inches.  We have no idea whether SC showered and changed her clothes as AE threw out the contents of the buckets before they could be forensically examined.  In AE's WS's she make ref to SC's underwear and tracksuit bottoms and no reference to children's clothing.  In her court testimony she makes ref to children's clothes  &%+((£

AE's WS's re contents of buckets

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3905.msg146309#msg146309

AE's trial testimony re contents of buckets

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5913.msg214299#msg214299

If SC was responsible she obviously carried out the murders in some sort of altered state of mind so the fact she was said to have had a positive relationship with NB I think is irrelevant.

We cross-posted, Holl. What do you think happened to Sheila's prints?
Jeremy Bamber kicked Mike Tesko in the fanny.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #137 on: February 03, 2015, 10:52:22 PM »
We cross-posted, Holl. What do you think happened to Sheila's prints?

Hi puglove

Only one print from each of SC and JB.  I'm not convinced that the police didn't, in their haste to make the gun safe, pick it up without gloves and then backtracked by wiping it. 

I've also taken this from CoA re the bible:

"52. The Bible found by Sheila Caffell's body, belonged to her mother and was normally kept in a cupboard to the right of her bed. It was examined for fingerprints. Many belonged to June Bamber and there were a small number of insufficient detail for comparison, save for one which appeared to have been made by a small child".

 &%+((£
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #138 on: February 04, 2015, 07:57:15 PM »
If Sheila attacked an already severely injured Ralph with a lump of wood and metal, she must have been standing about 2/3 feet away from him. As you say, without receiving a single speck of blood on her. And if she showered afterwards, when and how did she dry her hair? And put her watch back on? And where are the heavily blood-stained clothes that she must have worn? And, as scipio has pointed out, where are her fingerprints in the blood on the gun? And where are her bloodied footprints, back upstairs (on the carpet) to the main bedroom? And where are the soaking towels she used to dry herself? Her bag is tipped out on the spare bed when she needed a tampon, so why aren't the drawers open and tipped out if she needed a clean nightie and pants? And....if she had the time to do all this, why didn't she leave a note? Anything to explain why she felt so tortured and desperate that she had to kill her children?

Lump of wood/metal

I think the lump of wood/metal Scipio was referring to related to the broken stock:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5913.msg215889#msg215889

In the above post we have Scipio's take but as far as I'm aware the stock was not forensically analysed. 

Distance of perp from victims when inflicting wounds

We have Malcolm Fletchers distance of shots as follows:

June: 5 shots - at least one foot away
         1 shot - less than one foot
         1 shot - unable to estimate

NB :   6 shots - a few inches
         2 shots - at least two feet away

Daniel : 4 shots - within one foot
            1 shot - over two feet away

Nicholas : 3 shots - close proximity

It seems very likely the perp used the rifle to rain down blows on NB so this would mean contact within two feet? 

SC free of blood save her own wounds

I would like to see something from a pathologist/ballistics giving their views on the likely quantity and distribution of blood on the perp.

AE disposed of contents of buckets before they could be forensically examined.  Her contradictory WS and trial testimony leaves more questions than answers:

AE's WS's re contents of buckets

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3905.msg146309#msg146309

AE's trial testimony re contents of buckets

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5913.msg214299#msg214299

SC showering and drying her hair

If SC was the perp did she:

- need to wash
- wash
- bath
- shower

If bath/shower did she wear a shower cap or wash her hair?  If she washed/bathed/showered when did she do this?  JB claims he received the call from NB at circa 3.15am so if she washed, bathed showered say before 4.30am then any towels used would still be damp when EP broke in at circa 7.30am. 

SC's watch

If she went to bed and was woken by JB then would she sleep in her watch?  Soc photo show her wearing a chunky ring too.  If she was perp and washed, showered, bathed did she take watch and ring off or keep them on?  I personally hate anything on in bed but I  guess its personal preference.  Was the watch ever forensically analysed?  Does it still exist?  It has a leather strap so potentially could soak in blood. 

Fingerprints on rifle in blood stained areas and non blood stained areas

JB claims he used the rifle earlier in the eve.  AP claims he saw JB use the rifle the w.e before.  If JB he must have wiped his prints from earlier use?  Only one belonging to JB and one from SC.  Cannot be sure EP followed procedures in handling the rifle and preserving prints.  If they made an error did they wipe to remove their prints and cover their backs?

Footprints

AE's WS (I think) states spots (or similar words) to describe blood on the stairs.  The raid team also note blood spots on the kitchen floor which I think were confined to one area of the kitchen (not near NB).  The main quantity of blood was confined to the area NB was found.  It doesn't seem to have produced footprints from SC or JB?  If JB I think he must have returned upstairs after shooting NB in the kitchen.

Clean nightie and underwear

The bed shows toiletries and wash bag but I cant see an overnight bag or suitcase?  Where did the change of clothes etc go?  Stay in holdall or placed in drawers/wardrobe?  I've always thought that nightie looks frumpy?  Was it SC's or did it belong to June? 

Sucide note

I've just Googled 'suicide notes' and it appears some 25% - 30% leave a note:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_note

If SC was the perp and took her own life I don't think it was something she planned/intended.  FE said SC asked him to keep an eye on her flat as apparently there had been a number of break-ins in the area so it seems she planned returning.  Also I think she would have disposed of those photos.





Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline scipio_usmc

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #139 on: February 11, 2015, 07:04:37 PM »
Lump of wood/metal

I think the lump of wood/metal Scipio was referring to related to the broken stock:

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5913.msg215889#msg215889

In the above post we have Scipio's take but as far as I'm aware the stock was not forensically analysed. 

Distance of perp from victims when inflicting wounds

We have Malcolm Fletchers distance of shots as follows:

June: 5 shots - at least one foot away
         1 shot - less than one foot
         1 shot - unable to estimate

NB :   6 shots - a few inches
         2 shots - at least two feet away

Daniel : 4 shots - within one foot
            1 shot - over two feet away

Nicholas : 3 shots - close proximity

It seems very likely the perp used the rifle to rain down blows on NB so this would mean contact within two feet? 

SC free of blood save her own wounds

I would like to see something from a pathologist/ballistics giving their views on the likely quantity and distribution of blood on the perp.

AE disposed of contents of buckets before they could be forensically examined.  Her contradictory WS and trial testimony leaves more questions than answers:

AE's WS's re contents of buckets

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3905.msg146309#msg146309

AE's trial testimony re contents of buckets

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5913.msg214299#msg214299

SC showering and drying her hair

If SC was the perp did she:

- need to wash
- wash
- bath
- shower

If bath/shower did she wear a shower cap or wash her hair?  If she washed/bathed/showered when did she do this?  JB claims he received the call from NB at circa 3.15am so if she washed, bathed showered say before 4.30am then any towels used would still be damp when EP broke in at circa 7.30am. 

SC's watch

If she went to bed and was woken by JB then would she sleep in her watch?  Soc photo show her wearing a chunky ring too.  If she was perp and washed, showered, bathed did she take watch and ring off or keep them on?  I personally hate anything on in bed but I  guess its personal preference.  Was the watch ever forensically analysed?  Does it still exist?  It has a leather strap so potentially could soak in blood. 

Fingerprints on rifle in blood stained areas and non blood stained areas

JB claims he used the rifle earlier in the eve.  AP claims he saw JB use the rifle the w.e before.  If JB he must have wiped his prints from earlier use?  Only one belonging to JB and one from SC.  Cannot be sure EP followed procedures in handling the rifle and preserving prints.  If they made an error did they wipe to remove their prints and cover their backs?

Footprints

AE's WS (I think) states spots (or similar words) to describe blood on the stairs.  The raid team also note blood spots on the kitchen floor which I think were confined to one area of the kitchen (not near NB).  The main quantity of blood was confined to the area NB was found.  It doesn't seem to have produced footprints from SC or JB?  If JB I think he must have returned upstairs after shooting NB in the kitchen.

Clean nightie and underwear

The bed shows toiletries and wash bag but I cant see an overnight bag or suitcase?  Where did the change of clothes etc go?  Stay in holdall or placed in drawers/wardrobe?  I've always thought that nightie looks frumpy?  Was it SC's or did it belong to June? 

Sucide note

I've just Googled 'suicide notes' and it appears some 25% - 30% leave a note:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_note

If SC was the perp and took her own life I don't think it was something she planned/intended.  FE said SC asked him to keep an eye on her flat as apparently there had been a number of break-ins in the area so it seems she planned returning.  Also I think she would have disposed of those photos.

The simple truths are)

1) The killer she had to be wearing shoes or would have cut his/her feet.

2) The killer had to be wearing gloves or would have gotten his her prints in the blood on the rifle.  You constantly ignore that whatever prints were planted before the murders on areas that were coated by blood had those prints covered up.  The gun was coated in blood. Whenyou touch a gun coate din blood you leave your prints in such blood PLUS because the blood gets on your fingers you get bloody prints on other objects.  Teh onyl way such doesn't happen is when you wear gloves.  Moreover the stock broke in the narrow portion where the killer had to be holding it.  When you bash someone with a rifle you hold the stock around the narrow part because that is where your hand fits.  The stock would have cut or at minimum scratched the hand.  Gloves of course would prevent such.

3) The killer's clothing definitely would have had high velocity spatter from shooting June and Nevill. There is not enough room for the killer have been far enough to avoid it especially the shot between June's eyes.   There is no way the blood would have otten on the gun as the killer was beating Nevill and yet not on the killer.

You have to demonstrate WHY SHeila would take a bath and change her clothes and what she did with them including the gloves.

Talking about a bucket containing panties stained in the crotch doesn't speak to any of the above issues.  It doesn't explain why she woudl change what she wore when she killed others, why she would wash up or what she coudl have done with gloves and other clothign she wore when she killed everyone.  The only reaosn to wash and change her clothes would be to conceal her actions and try to avoid liability.  You were challenged time and again to identify a case where someone decided to commit murder suicide and after killing eveyrone else against their will decided to change and wash before killing themselves.  You coudl not identify any examples because there are none.  The only people who washed up after murder sucide was in ritualistic religious killings where they washed up the victims and themselve before finishing themselves off.  Such happened in a religious cult setting. The birden is on you to establish why she changed and more importantly prove she did so.  Saying police left a bucket containing panties with blood stains int he crotch doesn't establish they would or did leave behind gloves and other clothing.

In the meantime she can't have changed her clothing or washed after she was shot.  Her gown and hands woudl have had GSR from the shots to herself had she been the killer.

Moreover, this doesn't even deal with other evidence about the moderator which while you chose to dismiss it you can't refute it.  All dismissing does is mean you close your eyes to it you have to refute it to get that evidence to go away.





She had to have been wearing gloves
« Last Edit: February 13, 2015, 01:18:13 PM by John »
“...there are three classes of intellects: one which comprehends by itself; another which appreciates what others comprehend; and a third which neither comprehends by itself nor by the showing of others; the first is the most excellent, the second is good, the third is useless.”  Niccolò Machiavelli

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #140 on: February 22, 2015, 04:34:06 PM »
The simple truths are)

1) The killer she had to be wearing shoes or would have cut his/her feet.

What about NB's feet during the 'violent struggle'?  No cuts or any other marks noted to his feet?

A broken glass lampshade and piece of crockery does not necessarily equate to chards scattered far and wide.  How many broken pieces in total and what was their approximate size and location?


2) The killer had to be wearing gloves or would have gotten his her prints in the blood on the rifle.  You constantly ignore that whatever prints were planted before the murders on areas that were coated by blood had those prints covered up.  The gun was coated in blood. Whenyou touch a gun coate din blood you leave your prints in such blood PLUS because the blood gets on your fingers you get bloody prints on other objects.  Teh onyl way such doesn't happen is when you wear gloves.  Moreover the stock broke in the narrow portion where the killer had to be holding it.  When you bash someone with a rifle you hold the stock around the narrow part because that is where your hand fits.  The stock would have cut or at minimum scratched the hand.  Gloves of course would prevent such.

The rifle wasn't coated in blood as you claim.  It was contained to certain areas as per the diagram below so where were JB's prints on the areas not coated in blood, from his earlier use either the eve before or the last w.e of July when AP claims he saw JB use the gun? No blood or prints on the magazine?

You have no idea how the stock broke.  None of us do.  Therefore your argument that the perp had to be wearing gloves otherwise would of cut his/her hand falls.  Was the rifle stock and broken piece analysed?   

 
3) The killer's clothing definitely would have had high velocity spatter from shooting June and Nevill. There is not enough room for the killer have been far enough to avoid it especially the shot between June's eyes.   There is no way the blood would have otten on the gun as the killer was beating Nevill and yet not on the killer.

You have to demonstrate WHY SHeila would take a bath and change her clothes and what she did with them including the gloves.

Talking about a bucket containing panties stained in the crotch doesn't speak to any of the above issues.  It doesn't explain why she woudl change what she wore when she killed others, why she would wash up or what she coudl have done with gloves and other clothign she wore when she killed everyone.  The only reaosn to wash and change her clothes would be to conceal her actions and try to avoid liability.  You were challenged time and again to identify a case where someone decided to commit murder suicide and after killing eveyrone else against their will decided to change and wash before killing themselves.  You coudl not identify any examples because there are none.  The only people who washed up after murder sucide was in ritualistic religious killings where they washed up the victims and themselve before finishing themselves off.  Such happened in a religious cult setting. The birden is on you to establish why she changed and more importantly prove she did so.  Saying police left a bucket containing panties with blood stains int he crotch doesn't establish they would or did leave behind gloves and other clothing.

In the meantime she can't have changed her clothing or washed after she was shot.  Her gown and hands woudl have had GSR from the shots to herself had she been the killer.

I would like to see something from ballistics and the pathologist stating the likely quantity and distribution of blood on the perp.  Why didn't the raid team and soc officers seize on this immediately if it was so obvious?  The pathologist too?  Essex isn't Heartbeat country; in modern times it has always had its fair share of violent crime with links to East/South London heavies so EP would have some training and experience of spatter. 

Why would June /SC allow menstrual soiled underwear and dirty clothes soaking in buckets to be left in the kitchen where food was prepared and eaten?  And where others would see them eg the twins, NB and JB.  What women wants her menstrual soiled underwear on show for male relatives to see?  How would you feel about having your soiled underwear (semen and skid) on show for female relatives to see in the kitchen?  WHF had a designated room for laundry.  I think it was referred to as the scullery.   Even you said why would they leave the buckets in the kitchen where food was eaten when they had another more appropriate room; that was of course before I pointed out that the buckets were in fact left and found in the kitchen!  (See photos in links below).  AE's WS's and trial testimony are very ambiguous about the number of buckets and the contents.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=77.msg214332#msg214332

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=77.msg214336#msg214336

Most suicides don't involve murder.  And most people in the UK don't have access to firearms so in cases of murder/suicide it would be highly unusual to involve firearms.  Therefore the combination of murder/firearms/spatter/suicide is so rare that there aren't going to be a significant number of cases to draw on to know whether it would be the norm to involve washing and changing before suicide.  Your argument that there's no precedent, or none that you're aware of, and therefore it didn't happen is nonsense.  The fact is it was possible; no precedent is required. 

Moreover, this doesn't even deal with other evidence about the moderator which while you chose to dismiss it you can't refute it.  All dismissing does is mean you close your eyes to it you have to refute it to get that evidence to go away.

Refute what?

I'm on a roll with the quote splitting   *&*%£
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Myster

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #141 on: February 22, 2015, 05:33:19 PM »
Skid!!?... that's a new one on me, but then I have led a very sheltered life.

See... I was right about the expected long-winded post!  8((()*/

If you look at the kitchen photos most of the glass shards are towards the Welsh-Dresser/main hall side, probably caused by a backswing of the rifle hitting the lampshade and sending nearly all the broken pieces that way... not in the region around the sink where NB was trying to defend himself before collapsing on the chair back... hence no marks/cuts/debris on his feet.

As to the soiled underwear, maybe it was late and they couldn't be bothered using the scullery sink, or perhaps it was full of something already, so buckets had to be filled from the kitchen taps. The scullery/rear hall was stone-flagged so could be they didn't feel like walking bare-footed on a cold, dirty floor late on. There are many possible reasons why the buckets might have been in the kitchen. The twins were probably in bed by that time anyway, JB was hurtling and skidding? back to Goldhanger, and NB had seen it all before with two women in the household.

Some folks are not as fastidious or obsessed with cleanliness as you, Holly.

Ann Eaton refers to a bowl with items in the kitchen sink, so maybe she mistook this for the third bucket.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Passer-by

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #142 on: July 31, 2015, 12:36:27 AM »
This is a perfect example of how people read nonsense from he Bamber page and then adopt it.

1) Prior to these photos being taken a doctor examined Sheila and stated in his report that the blood on her body was dry.

2) The blood appears dry on the undoctored photos when the color filters are changed is when the blood looks very red red.

3) There is no way to tell from a photo whether blood is wet or dry it is a function that has to be done in person.  In person all the witnesses say it was dry including the doctor who declared her dead at 8:45AM.

There is no scientific basis to say a photo shows wet blood and the photo thus can't be used to contradict the testimony of the doctor and police.  The court was quite right to reject such nonsense.

Here is the photo in question that the defense claims proves the blood was wet:



That photo doesn't demonstrate the blood is wet the claim it does is just an allegation that has no scientific basis.

Here is what was published in the news after the photo was enhanced using filters:




But if you look at the photo of the autopsy which has been posted on here (by 'John'? Sorry, I'm assuming you are all super-sleuths on your own forum info!) her face is slathered in blood:  clearly in a body bag in the back of a police van she still had a lot of blood that was able to swill around, so it had not congealed.

Offline Passer-by

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #143 on: July 31, 2015, 01:10:51 AM »
I have a dark secret to share.  When my youngest was diagnosed severely disabled (and the idiot doctor's best advice was to go and live in a remote part of the countryside and just live out my days!) I went through a hellish time:  I had no support, I was housebound, I had moved so I had no friends nearby, my husband worked long contracts abroad leaving me to cope on my own for 3-4 months at a time - and I was also ill. 

I had dark thoughts.  If you'd endured it, you would have too:  you see, no one gave me any hope anything would ever get better - all I could see was that it would get worse, especially when the other parents at the preschool tried to get my kid kicked out because of his disability.  I thought there was a friendless life time of misery ahead for me and him. 

This is awful to say, but I picked a bridge.  I knew the area and I knew there was a bypass bridge over reservoir:  I'd once seen a car many years earlier nearly crash over the wall when it's brakes failed.  Late at night, after researching all I could about the disability, tired, exhausted, forgotten to eat - I would think about that bridge.  I would imagine myself pulling over:  I could visualise it, in the dark, hardly any traffic at 3am.  I could visualise myself, and could visualise my youngest - and it was fine, I could do it.  But I couldn't visualise my eldest.  He is very bright, full of life, a fantastic future ahead of him - and there it would stop.  And it would get me through the night.

But I wasn't on any kind of drugs, medicinal or otherwise and I'm not schizophrenic:  I can well imagine those might blur the lines even more.  Nonetheless, in the daytime if I ever drove over that bridge I would look - just think to myself where I'd stop the car, that kind of thing.  Kid myself hitting water wasn't so bad, and less stressful for the people finding it, etc. Apparently it is quite common for women who have had a baby to think of harming their children also - studies have shown that visualising it is the pressure valve which stops them actually doing it.

So in my opinion, if it was SC and she went off the deep end, it may well have been a sudden rage something triggered but whatever it was - and whoever did it - planned it first.  I don't think SC would just suddenly go off on a spontaneous rampage:  she would most probably have fantasised about this for months (even years?).  If that idea had taken root in her brain, she might well have covertly observed other people handling the guns (in addition to the fact girls on farms usually accompany the blokes when they go out on shoots:  who else would bring the sandwiches and how else do farmers' sons get married?!).  She may even have secretly practiced handling it out of curiosity - "could I if I wanted to?" on previous visits.

I certainly think it's immensely sexist and ridiculous in a modern context to think a tall girl couldn't fire one of the lightest guns and shoot people at point blank range:  nowadays we have women on the front line in the Armed Forces and the idea the little girl is too weak seems pretty weak itself.  But what is more, reports of the many more mass murders that we have read about since, suggests mass murderers aren't rampaging about very angry and mad as a dog - they tend to be completely cool, calm and trance-like, as though they are automatons.

And that is another ambiguity of the case:  whichever it was - Sheila, Jeremy, a third party - all them would have planned it.

It would be interesting to know if the items of bloody clothing in the buckets had any pockets in them:  perhaps whilst she was preparing for her own death, she noticed she had stained her clothes with menstrel blood and on autopilot put them in the bucket before slipping on her clean nightie:  this could explain the cleanliness of the nightie and the lack of residue on her hands.  Perhaps when she died, she wanted it to be in a clean nightie:  I believe her own bed wasn't slept in?

Offline Admin

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #144 on: July 31, 2015, 01:15:09 AM »

But if you look at the photo of the autopsy which has been posted on here (by 'John'? Sorry, I'm assuming you are all super-sleuths on your own forum info!) her face is slathered in blood:  clearly in a body bag in the back of a police van she still had a lot of blood that was able to swill around, so it had not congealed.

I am not too well versed on this case but I can answer your question about the blood.

When Sheila was shot in the neck and throat a lot of blood made its way into her mouth and throat effectively creating a blood reservoir, some of it flowed out as can been seen in the original photographs.  After death this blood would begin to congeal as you correctly pointed out and would do so at different rates depending on temperature and volume.  Pooled blood within the body would be the last to congeal, much of it would have still been in a semi liquid form as Sheila was removed to the morgue.  The moving and transportation of the body caused this as yet wholly uncongealed blood to escape from the body leaving the smears which can be seen in the morgue photo.

« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 01:20:11 AM by Admin »

Offline Passer-by

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #145 on: July 31, 2015, 01:34:07 AM »
Thank you, that's what I thought.  It would be interesting to know when the bodies were moved:  if the police thought JB did it before about 3.15am and some photos weren't taken until about 10am, shouldnt all the blood have congealed by about midday when she is the earliest she's likely to have been transported?

Offline Passer-by

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #146 on: July 31, 2015, 01:41:36 AM »
Ah:  I suppose I should end on a happy note in case you are worried  and tell you that I later got fantastic support, as did my child, and with the might of Late Night Internet Research to power me I made sure he got all the  right interventions etc and he is now Happy As Larry and fully integrated into mainstream education.

Moral of the Story:  don't pay too much attention to the advice of doctors! ;-)

Offline John

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #147 on: July 31, 2015, 04:14:02 PM »
Thank you for sharing those experiences with us Passer-by.  Those of us who have children know only too well the lengths we will go to for them.

Back to topic, I have always found it very convenient that there were no unused rounds found in the rifle, the chances of this occurring in a suicide are small.   In my view it is more likely Jeremy emptied the rifle into his victims but had to reload single bullets in order to shoot Sheila.   I have a feeling we are still missing clues relating to these shell casings.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2015, 04:20:37 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Passer-by

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #148 on: July 31, 2015, 04:33:52 PM »
That's a good point John:  one of the things I find hard to get my head around is the shell casings.  They seem awfully small not to get stepped on, kicked about and wedged in the tread of lots of Size 9s plodding around the house trying to find a killer.  I can't help wondering if the ones in the kitchen and the main bedroom might have been disturbed? 

How do you know that was all that was in the gun, given a firearms officer had to 'make the gun safe'?

I still think a depressed Sheila could well have done more prep for a suicide than is credited.

Offline John

Re: Sheila re loading. Twice.
« Reply #149 on: July 31, 2015, 05:55:03 PM »
That's a good point John:  one of the things I find hard to get my head around is the shell casings.  They seem awfully small not to get stepped on, kicked about and wedged in the tread of lots of Size 9s plodding around the house trying to find a killer.  I can't help wondering if the ones in the kitchen and the main bedroom might have been disturbed? 

How do you know that was all that was in the gun, given a firearms officer had to 'make the gun safe'?

I still think a depressed Sheila could well have done more prep for a suicide than is credited.

The rifle and magazine were empty when examined/made safe by first police responders.
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.