Author Topic: Did Bamber call Witham police station ?  (Read 22011 times)

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Offline Anna

Re: Did Bamber call Witham police station ?
« Reply #30 on: August 06, 2015, 04:55:54 PM »
On the new ebook " Jeremy Bamber Campaign" it shows logs that supposedly proves that Neville did phone the police before Jeremy, did.


« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 05:03:38 PM by John »
“You should not honour men more than truth.”
― Plato

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Did Bamber call Witham police station ?
« Reply #31 on: August 06, 2015, 05:11:54 PM »
When people lie they tend to get their story mixed up after a while.  He did the same thing with the phone call to Julie story in that he said one thing to police initially and then tripped himself up when it came to the interrogation.

IF JB is innocent it would not be unusual to get mixed up when taking a call at circa 3am in the morning, having just woken up after a long day working on the farm, which turned into a living nightmare.  Many, many people involved in this case have changed their stories over the years.  Are they all lying?  No people misunderstand, mishear, misinterpret and of course lie too  8(0(*

AE compiled a 3 page WS containing nothing other than misunderstandings etc.  Why is it if a prosecution witness changes his/her position that's acceptable but if JB changes his position its seen as evidence of guilt?   &%+((£

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3169.msg118117#msg118117
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Passer-by

Re: Did Bamber call Witham police station ?
« Reply #32 on: August 06, 2015, 05:28:36 PM »
When people lie they tend to get their story mixed up after a while.  He did the same thing with the phone call to Julie story in that he said one thing to police initially and then tripped himself up when it came to the interrogation.

In that case Bew is lying?

Offline Myster

Re: Did Bamber call Witham police station ?
« Reply #33 on: August 06, 2015, 06:15:20 PM »
Chris Bews said he arrived 20 mins before Bamber in an article in the East Anglia Daily News, as in my link higher up - herewith again.
https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/uk.legal/HeHfdy_asxI

In that case Bew is lying?

No... just a poor memory after 20-30 years. Bamber pulled up behind Bews And Myall two minutes after they overtook him according to Wilkes (1995). In recent documentaries Bews said it was about 5 minutes, but then he was mistaken about the type of car too - a Vauxhall Astra became a Nova.
It's one of them cases, in'it... one of them f*ckin' cases.

Offline Passer-by

Re: Did Bamber call Witham police station ?
« Reply #34 on: August 06, 2015, 06:42:37 PM »
Well then if we allow one person a dodgy memory we should allow that to others.  You'd think he would have recounted it so many times the neural pathway would be developed and he'd picture it in his brain.  He's implying JB took about 40mins to do a 6min journey, which is quite a blot against JB, after all.

Offline John

Re: Did Bamber call Witham police station ?
« Reply #35 on: August 06, 2015, 06:42:59 PM »
IF JB is innocent it would not be unusual to get mixed up when taking a call at circa 3am in the morning, having just woken up after a long day working on the farm, which turned into a living nightmare.  Many, many people involved in this case have changed their stories over the years.  Are they all lying?  No people misunderstand, mishear, misinterpret and of course lie too  8(0(*

AE compiled a 3 page WS containing nothing other than misunderstandings etc.  Why is it if a prosecution witness changes his/her position that's acceptable but if JB changes his position its seen as evidence of guilt?   &%+((£

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=3169.msg118117#msg118117

Mistakes will always be made by onlookers and the innocent but it is more likely that inconsistencies will arise with the guilty.   Always remembering and I accept this, not everyone who alters their recollection of events is lying.

It has to be remembered that Jeremy of all people should know every detail of what happened that night and all things being equal, he was best placed to recall memorable events.  Getting basic facts wrong so soon after the event is an indicator of guilt imo.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2015, 06:55:23 PM by John »
A malicious prosecution for a crime which never existed. An exposé of egregious malfeasance by public officials.
Indeed, the truth never changes with the passage of time.

Offline Passer-by

Re: Did Bamber call Witham police station ?
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2015, 07:15:00 PM »
Mistakes will always be made by onlookers and the innocent but it is more likely that inconsistencies will arise with the guilty.   Always remembering and I accept this, not everyone who alters their recollection of events is lying.

It has to be remembered that Jeremy of all people should know every detail of what happened that night and all things being equal, he was best placed to recall memorable events.  Getting basic facts wrong so soon after the event is an indicator of guilt imo.

On the contrary, when I did jury service I thought it quite amazing how completely differently all the witnesses remembered the same event, even if they were just passers-by with no agenda.

I think getting it perfect every time is more likely to show it was rehearsed.  Haven't you ever re countered an annecdote and immediately have someone else who was there correct you on a detail?

Offline anglolawyer

Re: Did Bamber call Witham police station ?
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2015, 10:14:53 PM »
No one seems to have noticed that Ann Eaton said Bamber told the police on the morning of the 7th that he had called Witham.   It's on about p.26 of her 08 Sep 85 statement I think.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Did Bamber call Witham police station ?
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2015, 07:31:39 AM »
No one seems to have noticed that Ann Eaton said Bamber told the police on the morning of the 7th that he had called Witham.   It's on about p.26 of her 08 Sep 85 statement I think.

I did!  It's here with her WS.  Also PC West makes the same claim.  I find AE's a bit ambiguous, is she saying he called Witham or he said he didn't call Witham as he knew it was unmanned?  Whether he called Witham or not I don't see what it proves or disproves?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5559.msg275200#msg275200

And I don't understand the argument he was playing for time.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline anglolawyer

Re: Did Bamber call Witham police station ?
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2015, 10:08:19 AM »
I did!  It's here with her WS.  Also PC West makes the same claim.  I find AE's a bit ambiguous, is she saying he called Witham or he said he didn't call Witham as he knew it was unmanned?  Whether he called Witham or not I don't see what it proves or disproves?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=5559.msg275200#msg275200

And I don't understand the argument he was playing for time.
The argument, or problem, is this:  if Nevill called at 3.00 a.m. (Bamber's time) how come it took him 26 minutes to call PC West at Chelmsford?   By wasting time calling unmanned Witham and then more time looking up the number and calling Chelmsford, he could account for some of it.   Calling Julie accounted for more (did he call her before or after he called the police? - he couldn't make his mind up which)as did returning Nevill's call.

But, there is a problem with the problem, which only just came to my notice.   A guilty Bamber would know that when calling from WHF there would be no one to pick up at Bourtree Cottage.   So he wouldn't actually call, just take the receiver off the hook.   That means he was not tied to any particular time for Nevill's call and could just as easily have said he called at 3.20 or something.   I haven't solved this problem yet but one idea is that he wanted the sound of the phone ringing to be heard in the other semi adjoining his.   He could swing that by getting Julie to call him, letting the phone ring for a few minutes and then hanging up.   He could then call her right back.   That ties up well with the evidence of at least three people about the time of the fake call from Nevill to Bamber - 3.00 a.m. Bamber 3.02 a.m. batters by and perhaps 2.59 with of Julie's roommates.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Did Bamber call Witham police station ?
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2015, 12:05:35 PM »
The argument, or problem, is this:  if Nevill called at 3.00 a.m. (Bamber's time) how come it took him 26 minutes to call PC West at Chelmsford?   By wasting time calling unmanned Witham and then more time looking up the number and calling Chelmsford, he could account for some of it.   Calling Julie accounted for more (did he call her before or after he called the police? - he couldn't make his mind up which)as did returning Nevill's call.

But, there is a problem with the problem, which only just came to my notice.   A guilty Bamber would know that when calling from WHF there would be no one to pick up at Bourtree Cottage.   So he wouldn't actually call, just take the receiver off the hook.   That means he was not tied to any particular time for Nevill's call and could just as easily have said he called at 3.20 or something.   I haven't solved this problem yet but one idea is that he wanted the sound of the phone ringing to be heard in the other semi adjoining his.   He could swing that by getting Julie to call him, letting the phone ring for a few minutes and then hanging up.   He could then call her right back.   That ties up well with the evidence of at least three people about the time of the fake call from Nevill to Bamber - 3.00 a.m. Bamber 3.02 a.m. batters by and perhaps 2.59 with of Julie's roommates.

It's all too subjective.  Was the neighbouring property even occupied?  Perhaps they were on hol or working a night shift.  Maybe deep sleepers and/or wore ear plugs.  Perhaps the party wall was thick. 

The times are hopelessly unreliable with most of the witnesses changing their times.  When I have time I will go through the WS's and plot the witnesses with their times on a timeline coz I'm sad like that  8)><(
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline anglolawyer

Re: Did Bamber call Witham police station ?
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2015, 12:21:00 PM »
It's all too subjective.  Was the neighbouring property even occupied?  Perhaps they were on hol or working a night shift.  Maybe deep sleepers and/or wore ear plugs.  Perhaps the party wall was thick.
We use the word 'subjective' differently methinks.

Anyway, I have since solved the problem, replacing it with a lesser problem.   The time Bamber gave for Nevill's call had to be earlier than the time at which he called Julie and he could not be sure no one at Julie's place would note the time precisely.   Now, the problem is: why did he call Julie shortly after 3.00 a.m? (see below)

The times are hopelessly unreliable with most of the witnesses changing their times.  When I have time I will go through the WS's and plot the witnesses with their times on a timeline coz I'm sad like that  8)><(
It's a good thing to be sad about.   Let me help.   Bamber said Nevill called at three.   He was wearing his watch (Ann Eaton).   He has since moved that to '3.15 or 3.30' per his recorded interview from prison which Myster, I think, posted recently.

In the 2002 appeal, the judge summarised the evidence of Julie's roommates on the time of the call to her as follows:

Helen Eaton 3.00 (but at trial she agreed in cross it might have been 3.30)
Sue Battersby 3.02 (after adjustment as she kept her clock 10 minutes fast)
Joanna Wood 2.00 - 2.59 (she only remembered it was a number beginning with 2)
Julie Mugford 3.30, corrected to 3.15 after calling someone at her place (source, Ann Eaton)

Julie's timing should be discarded as she was (IMO) complicit in the crime.   The others tend towards 3.00 a.m. which is also the time Bamber assigns to Nevill's call.   It rather looks as though he was obliged to say Nevill called at 3.00 because he placed a call through to Julie right after.   
 

Offline anglolawyer

Re: Did Bamber call Witham police station ?
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2015, 12:47:40 PM »
p.14 of Ann Eaton's 1991 statement to the Stokenchurch enquiry - she says Bamber claimed he called or he knew they were on duty (meaning what?) 'Witham or Wickham Bishops' and that he then looked up the Chelmsford number.

When she asked him why he didn't call 999 he said he didn't think it was that important.   Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Did Bamber call Witham police station ?
« Reply #43 on: September 25, 2015, 02:09:41 PM »
We use the word 'subjective' differently methinks.

Anyway, I have since solved the problem, replacing it with a lesser problem.   The time Bamber gave for Nevill's call had to be earlier than the time at which he called Julie and he could not be sure no one at Julie's place would note the time precisely.   Now, the problem is: why did he call Julie shortly after 3.00 a.m? (see below)
It's a good thing to be sad about.   Let me help.   Bamber said Nevill called at three.   He was wearing his watch (Ann Eaton).   He has since moved that to '3.15 or 3.30' per his recorded interview from prison which Myster, I think, posted recently.

In the 2002 appeal, the judge summarised the evidence of Julie's roommates on the time of the call to her as follows:

Helen Eaton 3.00 (but at trial she agreed in cross it might have been 3.30)
Sue Battersby 3.02 (after adjustment as she kept her clock 10 minutes fast)
Joanna Wood 2.00 - 2.59 (she only remembered it was a number beginning with 2)
Julie Mugford 3.30, corrected to 3.15 after calling someone at her place (source, Ann Eaton)

Julie's timing should be discarded as she was (IMO) complicit in the crime.   The others tend towards 3.00 a.m. which is also the time Bamber assigns to Nevill's call.   It rather looks as though he was obliged to say Nevill called at 3.00 because he placed a call through to Julie right after.

There's no way to objectively analyse the time of the calls.  As I said I will go through all the docs and put together a timeline when I have time but its not top of my priority list as nothing can ever be advanced here.  The whole thing is a nonsense imo.  Allow me to give you an example to illustrate the point: when JB and JM took SC home from CC's party on the 3rd Aug JB's WS gives the time as midnight.  JM gives the time as 11.45pm.  Nothing whatsoever sinister here just a typical recollection of time when asked retrospectively and not realising at the time it would have any significance.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5631.0;attach=4562

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=282.0;attach=1010

JB's WS of 7th Aug states NB called at 3.10am.  SB WS of 10th Sep states JB called at 3.15am.  Sometimes  she kept her clock 10 mins fast but there's no clarification whether or not it was 10 mins fast that day.  This sort of rubbish would never see the inside of a court today.  Surely you can see how hopelessly unreliable it is?

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5631.0;attach=4566

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=529.0;attach=1659
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Did Bamber call Witham police station ?
« Reply #44 on: September 25, 2015, 02:20:01 PM »
p.14 of Ann Eaton's 1991 statement to the Stokenchurch enquiry - she says Bamber claimed he called or he knew they were on duty (meaning what?) 'Witham or Wickham Bishops' and that he then looked up the Chelmsford number.

When she asked him why he didn't call 999 he said he didn't think it was that important.   Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

As you said here hindsight is a wonderful thing  8((()*/

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6629.msg273216#msg273216

If JB is innocent no one at the time had any idea SC had the the potential to become violent.  It makes perfect sense to me why JB would not have dialled 999 but as I said its subjective.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?