Author Topic: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.  (Read 227822 times)

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Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #135 on: January 15, 2019, 03:15:43 PM »
Here is an extract from a police statement made by Darren Nicholls.

I went through Rettendon the latter part of 1995. I remember an occasion when I was there with other people, they were Jack Whomes and Michael Steele, I remember that day. I was at work that day, I was working at Sunbury on Thames, my mobile was with me. Michael Steele rang me that day, he wondered where I was and would like to meet me, we did not discuss where we would meet because I was at work, I agreed to meet him later on that day, at Ron Parkinson’s motorcycles, Marks Tey at 5 o’clock, I drove to Marks Tey, in I think my Golf Convertible, I have been to Ron Parkinsons before, it sells motorcycles. When I arrived I parked in the flats opposite, Mr Steele wasn’t there when I arrived. When I arrived I went into the motorbike shop, I bought something for my old motorbike it was either a battery or a light bulb, I then put it in my car.

Whilst I was walking back to my car I saw Mick, I waved to him I said I was just putting something in my car, and then I got in his pick up truck. The pick up truck was a red Toyota it was an M registration I think. When I got in I sat in the passenger seat, he said they were going down to do a deal with Pat him and Jack I said “where is Jack”, he said “he’ll be here in a minute,” I don’t recall anything else he said, then I noticed Jack had pulled up behind us. Jack was in a beige Volkswagen, it was a B registration, I had sold the car to Michael Steele. When he pulled up he got out and spoke to Mick I don’t recall what was said, then he got back in his car, then we pulled off onto the A12 heading towards London. I was with Mick in his Toyota and Jack behind us in his Volkswagen. I can’t recall exactly what was said, but he said we would meet Pat and there was going to be a drug deal or we were having a drug deal I can't remember.

At that time I didn't know where we was going. Mick said Jack would show me where the deal was going to be he said did I know this place but I'm not sure, he said don't worry Jack would show you where to go. Nothing happened on the journey just normal chat, he told me I was going to swap cars and I was to get in the car with Jack and he was going to meet Pat on his own. We stopped in a lay-by near the Halfway House, which is a pub restaurant on the A127. When we stopped in the lay-by I got in the car with Jack, Mick was going to the Halfway House with Jack. We got to the far end of the lay-by gates, we swapped drivers.

Jack was to swap the number plates. I got my feet wet, Jack was wearing overalls and wellies, I remember the wellies more than the overalls because they were new. When we stopped Jack got out to stick the new number plates over the existing plates but they wouldn't stick as it was too wet. I saw the number plates he was trying to stick, they were B registration as well and they were brand new. When the plates couldn't be stuck they were put in the back of the car, and he said drive down to the Halfway House pub. I had been to the pub only as a child or driving past on the way to Southend.

When we got to the pub jack told me to park at the back as far away from the A127 as possible which I did. I could see Mick's Toyota parked in front of us to the left, after we parked Jack changed his mind and said no dont park here park as close to the A127 so I moved the car. I could still see the hi-lux which was in front again but to my right. Then we had to leave the car running because the windows were misting up because of the weather, I said shall we have a drink and Sack said no. Then he said we were waiting for Pat to arrive and go to a meeting point, shortly after that he said right go.

I saw a dark coloured Range Rover when he said that, the Range Rover drove and parked next to Micky's hi-lux, I couldn't see who was in the Range Rover. Jack then told me to drive off and up the slip road by the pub and back down the A127 to Southend, that is what I did. then he gave me directions down the A127 and on to the A130 to Chelmsford I think, which I am familiar with. A130 goes from the A127 all the way to Chelmsford, but we went to the Rettendon Turnpike, which is a roundabout with traffic lights on it. I went straight over to carry on towards Chelmsford, on the other side of Rettendon turnpike and up the hill and back down hill and out the other side.

Jack then said slow down and take the next right, which I did, it was a lane not a road, then I turned left into a gap to turn the car round, the head lamps were facing the road back towards the A130. Jack told me he would ring me when he wanted picking up, I had my mobile with me, he got out had a bag and a coat from the back, the bag I think was a canvass sausage shape bag, I didn't notice it in the car before, I might have done but it didn’t register. He told me he would ring me when he wanted me to pick him up, so I pulled off and went right towards Chelmsford, I drove down the road to the first point I could turn round to a petrol station, then I drove back up the road and parked in a pub on the left hand side of the road. I left the engine running and checked my phone to see I had a lousy signal so I moved to get a better signal up the road.

The pub I was in had a bright pink Morris Minor, the next pub I parked in past the lane and up the hill and took the first left turn, went up that road turned around and first left up there, then came up and parked outside the first house on my left and waited for him to ring. I didn’t wait there very long, my phone rang, Jack said come and pick us up and hung up I think I might have said ok. I turned right went back down the road, and had to wait for a few cars to go past so I could turn right into the lane, then turned the car round to face the road again. I didn’t see anyone and after a short period of time the back opened and Jack got in. I didn’t notice the interior light come on.

I said “where’s Mick” he said he won’t be a minute he’s dropped something. Jack was sitting between the back seats talking to me then Mick opened the passenger door of the car and the interior light came on. When the light came on I was looking at Jack, I notice he had surgical gloves and I saw something on them like blood, Mick said turn the interior light off, Mick had shut the door about the same time, then he said “lets get going,” he said go left towards Rettendon turnpike, so I pulled out, something clicked in my mind something had happened.

I pulled out in front on a car, Mick asked if I was ok, I said yes I was and as we drove up the road towards turnpike, Mick said they wont f..k us about no more, and Jack said yeah it was quite funny cause when Mick had shot one of them the gun fell apart, he kept asking me if I was ok several times. I realised what happened but not to who, so I said I hope I don’t fall out with you two, Mick said no you wont fall out with us. Micks started to hand over to Jack parts of the gun, I saw the barrels. I dont know the names of the other parts, I definitely saw the barrels. I was driving I was a bit confused at the time.

From the Rettendon turnpike we went back down the A130 to Southend, then at Rawreth traffic lights I turned left, straight to the bottom of that road, we turned right and then took another right turn on or two roads later. As we went up the road there was a pub on the right, the Hungry Horse or Hungry Hippo something like that. I drove into the car park of the pub and parked next to Mick’s Toyota which was on the left and stopped the car. They got out and I was still sitting there.

Mick had opened up his Toyota he told me to go and get in the Toyota which I did, then they were getting changed sort of thing, Mick was taking off his wellies and overalls off over his wellies, then slipping his shoes on, boiler suit and wellies were put in the pick up truck and Jack did the same I think, and then we drove off Mick drove the hi-lux with me in passenger seat and Jack was behind us in the Passat. We drove past the Rettendon lane, then Jack overtook us on the dual carriageway as we were driving slower.

There was some conversation in the car with Mr Steele, he said Jack was very cold hearted I said why, he first of all said when they stopped down the lane a gate had been shut so I got out the range rover I didn’t know where Jack was, then Jack leant into the range rover and shot all three of them, Jack handed Mick a gun and Mick shot them, then he said once that had happened Jack reloaded his gun and shot them all in the back of the head. I cant recall anything else that was said, I did say can we stop and have a drink Mick originally said yes good idea as Mick looked shaken up but when we got to Marks Tey he said best get home straight away. Then I got in my car and headed back to Braintree.

Afterwards I was working at Mick’s new house, like a cottage and there was things spoken there with Jack and Mick. In conversations Mick told me that when he was driving to the lane with them in the Range Rover that Pat’s girlfriend Sarah had rung Pat on the telephone all lovey dovey which he hated, not like when Sarah talked to Mick and Jackie. He was concerned Pat might have said he was with Mick now but he didn’t. Then he hung up the phone just as they were at the lane. I don’t know if it was Mick or Jack said when Pat was shot in the back he started to squeal like a baby and his hand had come up and put his hand through the window.

Also Jack had said to me at some point Mick was really excited when he shot them and saying “give me some more cartridge, give me some more cartridges.” Afterwards Mick said that he hadn’t felt bad about it as Pat deserved it he was such a b........, who would give a f..k that pat was dead as nobody liked him which was quite true probably. There was conversation as why it happened with Mick. Roughly it was that when the money had been returned from the bad drug deal a lot of the money Pat had put into it wasn’t his he had borrowed it and that what Pat decided to do was not pay the people back and blame Mick to say he hadn’t paid them back. Mick knew this because Sarah had told him Pat’s ex girlfriend.

Pat was telling them he hadn’t been paid back and if he wasn’t paid back he would kill Mick.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #136 on: January 15, 2019, 03:53:41 PM »
So they must have been expert at circus tricks too!   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YICwx_r4gVU

Those guys look agile, fit with good hand/eye coordination.  By comparison Steele/Whomes look like a pair of old cart horses.

Besides all the shotgun cartridges were fired from the offside of the vehicle, weren't they?  The rear nearside window was shattered by a shell fired from the offside, or caused by Tate's head banging against the glass maybe?

From the expert:

JUDGE HIDDEN: We come to the forensic scientist John Burns. He has been a forensic scientist since 1966 and has worked exclusively in that time in examination of firearms since 1977. He works at the laboratory at Huntingdon and is an (inaudible) chemist. He did a threefold examination: the scene first, then the garage at South Woodham Ferrers police station and then the post-mortem.

He concluded that 8 shots from a 12-bore shotgun appeared to have been fired at the scene: 2 into the right hand side of Tucker, the front passenger, 1 into the back of his head; 2 into the right side of the head and face of Rolfe, the driver; and 3 at the rear passenger Tate - 1 into the right torso, 1 across back of the head and 1 into the left side of the head. He thought that most of the shots appeared to have been fired from close range through the open rear off-side door of the vehicle. One of the shots to the head and face of Rolfe having first passed through the right hand corner of the driver's head rest as you see in the photograph. The shot fired across the head of Tate appeared to have passed through the glass on the rear nearside door. The shot into his head appeared to be fired from the nearside of the vehicle through the same glass. The angle of the shot into his right torso suggested that he was in a position similar to where he was found when the shot was fired.

I'm not finding the above clear.  8 shots: 3 to each of Tate and Tucker and 2 to Rolfe with all fired through the rear off-side door of the vehicle except 1 or 2 to Tate?  Is the expert saying the gsw that went across the back of Tate's head passed through the glass window of the rear nearside and a further gsw was then inflicted through this broken window?  Or is he saying both of these gsw's were inflicted through the rear nearside window?  I need to find out where the cartridge cases were found.

I was thinking the assassin was on the rear nearside of the vehicle smashed the window manually or with the initial gunshot and disabled the trio with a single gsw before inflicting more to ensure they did not survive.  It seems I was wrong.

In any event the experts scenario poses a number of questions:

- Assuming the assassin was lying in wait how could he/she know the central locking wouldn't be on?   They couldn't take the risk brandishing a full length shotgun by wasting vital seconds trying the door only to find it locked with Rolfe then putting the Range Rover into reverse and accelerating away and/or any of the trio pulling their own firearms.

- If the assassin was travelling in the Range Rover when, where and how did he/she collect the full length shotgun from?  Even if he/she carried with them on the basis it was needed for anyone they were supposedly meeting at what stage did he/she access it to murder the trio? 

- I thought it might have been possible for one or more people to in effect take them hostage elsewhere and then force them to drive to Rettendon at gunpoint but would the assassin(s) take the risk of allowing them to retain their mobile phones which were found in Tate/Tucker's hands?  Staging them in their hands after the event seems a bit far fetched and would they want to take unnecessary risks handling items, victims, leaning into the car and wasting time when they could be quickly moving away from soc?  Also Rolfe was clutching the steering wheel with his foot on the brake and I can't see the assasin(s) staging all of this?  Or maybe they did in an attempt to lead the police to believe those responsible were known to the victims?

I can see the prosecution case against Steele/Whomes ie Steele travelling in the Range Rover then getting out the rear passenger door to supposedly open the gate with Whomes lying in wait with the shotgun at the ready but still think it was someone highly trained.  Is such a weapon easy to come by for criminals?  Afaik Steele/Whomes had little or no experience/knowledge of firearms although I believe Steele had a firearm at his home.  To carry out such an attack would surely require multiple test fires to ensure the weapon was functioning properly. It's hardly the sort of thing criminals could acquire legitimately through a registered gun dealer where the firearm is all checked etc.  Where would they carry out such tests given the thing can be heard for over a mile?  I guess Steele could have taken it out to sea in his boat to test fire. 

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #137 on: January 15, 2019, 04:28:54 PM »
Here is an extract from a police statement made by Darren Nicholls.

I went through Rettendon the latter part of 1995. I remember an occasion when I was there with other people, they were Jack Whomes and Michael Steele, I remember that day. I was at work that day, I was working at Sunbury on Thames, my mobile was with me. Michael Steele rang me that day, he wondered where I was and would like to meet me, we did not discuss where we would meet because I was at work, I agreed to meet him later on that day, at Ron Parkinson’s motorcycles, Marks Tey at 5 o’clock, I drove to Marks Tey, in I think my Golf Convertible, I have been to Ron Parkinsons before, it sells motorcycles. When I arrived I parked in the flats opposite, Mr Steele wasn’t there when I arrived. When I arrived I went into the motorbike shop, I bought something for my old motorbike it was either a battery or a light bulb, I then put it in my car.

Whilst I was walking back to my car I saw Mick, I waved to him I said I was just putting something in my car, and then I got in his pick up truck. The pick up truck was a red Toyota it was an M registration I think. When I got in I sat in the passenger seat, he said they were going down to do a deal with Pat him and Jack I said “where is Jack”, he said “he’ll be here in a minute,” I don’t recall anything else he said, then I noticed Jack had pulled up behind us. Jack was in a beige Volkswagen, it was a B registration, I had sold the car to Michael Steele. When he pulled up he got out and spoke to Mick I don’t recall what was said, then he got back in his car, then we pulled off onto the A12 heading towards London. I was with Mick in his Toyota and Jack behind us in his Volkswagen. I can’t recall exactly what was said, but he said we would meet Pat and there was going to be a drug deal or we were having a drug deal I can't remember.

At that time I didn't know where we was going. Mick said Jack would show me where the deal was going to be he said did I know this place but I'm not sure, he said don't worry Jack would show you where to go. Nothing happened on the journey just normal chat, he told me I was going to swap cars and I was to get in the car with Jack and he was going to meet Pat on his own. We stopped in a lay-by near the Halfway House, which is a pub restaurant on the A127. When we stopped in the lay-by I got in the car with Jack, Mick was going to the Halfway House with Jack. We got to the far end of the lay-by gates, we swapped drivers.

Jack was to swap the number plates. I got my feet wet, Jack was wearing overalls and wellies, I remember the wellies more than the overalls because they were new. When we stopped Jack got out to stick the new number plates over the existing plates but they wouldn't stick as it was too wet. I saw the number plates he was trying to stick, they were B registration as well and they were brand new. When the plates couldn't be stuck they were put in the back of the car, and he said drive down to the Halfway House pub. I had been to the pub only as a child or driving past on the way to Southend.

When we got to the pub jack told me to park at the back as far away from the A127 as possible which I did. I could see Mick's Toyota parked in front of us to the left, after we parked Jack changed his mind and said no dont park here park as close to the A127 so I moved the car. I could still see the hi-lux which was in front again but to my right. Then we had to leave the car running because the windows were misting up because of the weather, I said shall we have a drink and Sack said no. Then he said we were waiting for Pat to arrive and go to a meeting point, shortly after that he said right go.

I saw a dark coloured Range Rover when he said that, the Range Rover drove and parked next to Micky's hi-lux, I couldn't see who was in the Range Rover. Jack then told me to drive off and up the slip road by the pub and back down the A127 to Southend, that is what I did. then he gave me directions down the A127 and on to the A130 to Chelmsford I think, which I am familiar with. A130 goes from the A127 all the way to Chelmsford, but we went to the Rettendon Turnpike, which is a roundabout with traffic lights on it. I went straight over to carry on towards Chelmsford, on the other side of Rettendon turnpike and up the hill and back down hill and out the other side.

Jack then said slow down and take the next right, which I did, it was a lane not a road, then I turned left into a gap to turn the car round, the head lamps were facing the road back towards the A130. Jack told me he would ring me when he wanted picking up, I had my mobile with me, he got out had a bag and a coat from the back, the bag I think was a canvass sausage shape bag, I didn't notice it in the car before, I might have done but it didn’t register. He told me he would ring me when he wanted me to pick him up, so I pulled off and went right towards Chelmsford, I drove down the road to the first point I could turn round to a petrol station, then I drove back up the road and parked in a pub on the left hand side of the road. I left the engine running and checked my phone to see I had a lousy signal so I moved to get a better signal up the road.

The pub I was in had a bright pink Morris Minor, the next pub I parked in past the lane and up the hill and took the first left turn, went up that road turned around and first left up there, then came up and parked outside the first house on my left and waited for him to ring. I didn’t wait there very long, my phone rang, Jack said come and pick us up and hung up I think I might have said ok. I turned right went back down the road, and had to wait for a few cars to go past so I could turn right into the lane, then turned the car round to face the road again. I didn’t see anyone and after a short period of time the back opened and Jack got in. I didn’t notice the interior light come on.

I said “where’s Mick” he said he won’t be a minute he’s dropped something. Jack was sitting between the back seats talking to me then Mick opened the passenger door of the car and the interior light came on. When the light came on I was looking at Jack, I notice he had surgical gloves and I saw something on them like blood, Mick said turn the interior light off, Mick had shut the door about the same time, then he said “lets get going,” he said go left towards Rettendon turnpike, so I pulled out, something clicked in my mind something had happened.

I pulled out in front on a car, Mick asked if I was ok, I said yes I was and as we drove up the road towards turnpike, Mick said they wont f..k us about no more, and Jack said yeah it was quite funny cause when Mick had shot one of them the gun fell apart, he kept asking me if I was ok several times. I realised what happened but not to who, so I said I hope I don’t fall out with you two, Mick said no you wont fall out with us. Micks started to hand over to Jack parts of the gun, I saw the barrels. I dont know the names of the other parts, I definitely saw the barrels. I was driving I was a bit confused at the time.

From the Rettendon turnpike we went back down the A130 to Southend, then at Rawreth traffic lights I turned left, straight to the bottom of that road, we turned right and then took another right turn on or two roads later. As we went up the road there was a pub on the right, the Hungry Horse or Hungry Hippo something like that. I drove into the car park of the pub and parked next to Mick’s Toyota which was on the left and stopped the car. They got out and I was still sitting there.

Mick had opened up his Toyota he told me to go and get in the Toyota which I did, then they were getting changed sort of thing, Mick was taking off his wellies and overalls off over his wellies, then slipping his shoes on, boiler suit and wellies were put in the pick up truck and Jack did the same I think, and then we drove off Mick drove the hi-lux with me in passenger seat and Jack was behind us in the Passat. We drove past the Rettendon lane, then Jack overtook us on the dual carriageway as we were driving slower.

There was some conversation in the car with Mr Steele, he said Jack was very cold hearted I said why, he first of all said when they stopped down the lane a gate had been shut so I got out the range rover I didn’t know where Jack was, then Jack leant into the range rover and shot all three of them, Jack handed Mick a gun and Mick shot them, then he said once that had happened Jack reloaded his gun and shot them all in the back of the head. I cant recall anything else that was said, I did say can we stop and have a drink Mick originally said yes good idea as Mick looked shaken up but when we got to Marks Tey he said best get home straight away. Then I got in my car and headed back to Braintree.

Afterwards I was working at Mick’s new house, like a cottage and there was things spoken there with Jack and Mick. In conversations Mick told me that when he was driving to the lane with them in the Range Rover that Pat’s girlfriend Sarah had rung Pat on the telephone all lovey dovey which he hated, not like when Sarah talked to Mick and Jackie. He was concerned Pat might have said he was with Mick now but he didn’t. Then he hung up the phone just as they were at the lane. I don’t know if it was Mick or Jack said when Pat was shot in the back he started to squeal like a baby and his hand had come up and put his hand through the window.

Also Jack had said to me at some point Mick was really excited when he shot them and saying “give me some more cartridge, give me some more cartridges.” Afterwards Mick said that he hadn’t felt bad about it as Pat deserved it he was such a b........, who would give a f..k that pat was dead as nobody liked him which was quite true probably. There was conversation as why it happened with Mick. Roughly it was that when the money had been returned from the bad drug deal a lot of the money Pat had put into it wasn’t his he had borrowed it and that what Pat decided to do was not pay the people back and blame Mick to say he hadn’t paid them back. Mick knew this because Sarah had told him Pat’s ex girlfriend.

Pat was telling them he hadn’t been paid back and if he wasn’t paid back he would kill Mick.

Imo the above is weak to say the least. 

In Donna Jagger's WS she states Steele's Toyota was blue.  Nicholls above states it was red.  Maybe he had two  8)-)))  This is just one of many inconsistencies I have found without even a close examination.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg508993#msg508993

Nicholls WS offers nothing of evidential value just a lot of waffle and stories eg the attempt to change number plates which can then cover a lack of corroborating evidence eg none of these vehicles tracked on cctv.  There's nothing in Nicholls WS's that he couldn't learn from either the press or police. 

By all accounts Steele was a perfectionist and an accomplished engineer.  The idea he would be in possession of a shotgun which fell apart during a high risk assassin is nonsense imo. 

The WS also refers to a Mr Steele and Mick Steele.  Why?  If they were Nicholls own words he would refer to Steele consistently as Mr Steele, Mick or whatever.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 04:32:07 PM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #138 on: January 15, 2019, 04:45:21 PM »
If Nicholls is lying, then his relationship with the investigating officers must have been a corrupt one. 

If you believe this to be the case, then you also have to believe that Nicholls would be capable of keeping his story together, throughout multiple days of cross questioning. 

I personally find his overall story, very convincing.  However, I don't believe that he told the whole truth.  I think he tried to minimise the involvement of some of his close friends. 

Holly, how did I know that you would pick up on the Mickey Steele/Mr Steele bit? 

Steele and Whomes alibis on the day of the murders are worth a good examination.  They are far fetched, to say the least.  In the case of Steele, part of it was proved to be false.  I'll try and upload some details. 

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #139 on: January 15, 2019, 04:59:27 PM »
If Nicholls is lying, then his relationship with the investigating officers must have been a corrupt one. 

If you believe this to be the case, then you also have to believe that Nicholls would be capable of keeping his story together, throughout multiple days of cross questioning. 

I personally find his overall story, very convincing.  However, I don't believe that he told the whole truth.  I think he tried to minimise the involvement of some of his close friends. 

Holly, how did I know that you would pick up on the Mickey Steele/Mr Steele bit? 

Steele and Whomes alibis on the day of the murders are worth a good examination.  They are far fetched, to say the least.  In the case of Steele, part of it was proved to be false.  I'll try and upload some details.

Yes I do believe it was a corrupt one as per CoA doc.  Nicholls sold his pals down the river to save his own skin imo.

But his story doesn't contain any corroborating facts that he couldn't learn from others eg police, press.  It's all waffly eg went into the motorcycle shop and saw a pink Morris Minor in the pub car park.  So what?  Unless we have independent verification to prove one way or the other what does it all mean?  It's just unnecessary detail and waffle that will make some think it sounds credible.

According to the CoA doc he swapped cars in a country park.  In his WS he refers to swapping cars in a lay-by.  Can't be both.  I know the area well both the country park and the lay-by.  They are a distant apart and not the sort of thing you would mix up. 
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #140 on: January 15, 2019, 05:14:22 PM »
Yes I do believe it was a corrupt one as per CoA doc.  Nicholls sold his pals down the river to save his own skin imo.

But his story doesn't contain any corroborating facts that he couldn't learn from others eg police, press.  It's all waffly eg went into the motorcycle shop and saw a pink Morris Minor in the pub car park.  So what?  Unless we have independent verification to prove one way or the other what does it all mean?  It's just unnecessary detail and waffle that will make some think it sounds credible.

According to the CoA doc he swapped cars in a country park.  In his WS he refers to swapping cars in a lay-by.  Can't be both.  I know the area well both the country park and the lay-by.  They are a distant apart and not the sort of thing you would mix up.
They did of course swop cars on a couple of occasions that night.

The corrupt policemen were not the investigating officers in this case.

Wolfgang Bird and Phi Stimpson were arrested as part of this investigation.  Bird was arrested on the same day as all the others (Steele, Whomes, Nicholls, Tate etc).  Nicholls was his informant for some months up to the arrests. 

Bridge and Reed, Nicholls close friends, were spared any charges even though they had both been present when drugs were being imported/transported.  It was widely suspected that Nicholls had downplayed their part in the conspiracy. 

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #141 on: January 15, 2019, 05:18:55 PM »
They did of course swop cars on a couple of occasions that night.

The corrupt policemen were not the investigating officers in this case.

Wolfgang Bird and Phi Stimpson were arrested as part of this investigation.  Bird was arrested on the same day as all the others (Steele, Whomes, Nicholls, Tate etc).  Nicholls was his informant for some months up to the arrests. 

Bridge and Reed, Nicholls close friends, were spared any charges even though they had both been present when drugs were being imported/transported.  It was widely suspected that Nicholls had downplayed their part in the conspiracy.
He mentioned the pink Morris minor as a means of confirming which pub it was.  I don't know if you're aware/remember that that pub featured the pink car, parked prominently on the front.

Nicholls mentioned the motorcycle shop and was able to produce a receipt for an item he purchased there, that afternoon, whilst waiting for Steele to arrive. 

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #142 on: January 15, 2019, 05:28:26 PM »
Imo the above is weak to say the least. 

In Donna Jagger's WS she states Steele's Toyota was blue.  Nicholls above states it was red.  Maybe he had two  8)-)))  This is just one of many inconsistencies I have found without even a close examination.

http://miscarriageofjustice.co/index.php?topic=6020.msg508993#msg508993

Nicholls WS offers nothing of evidential value just a lot of waffle and stories eg the attempt to change number plates which can then cover a lack of corroborating evidence eg none of these vehicles tracked on cctv.  There's nothing in Nicholls WS's that he couldn't learn from either the press or police. 

By all accounts Steele was a perfectionist and an accomplished engineer.  The idea he would be in possession of a shotgun which fell apart during a high risk assassin is nonsense imo. 

The WS also refers to a Mr Steele and Mick Steele.  Why?  If they were Nicholls own words he would refer to Steele consistently as Mr Steele, Mick or whatever.
Jaggers is referring to a Rav 4.  Nicholls is talking about a Hi-lux.

Steele was often buying/selling/changing vehicles.

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #143 on: January 15, 2019, 06:07:40 PM »
Holly, do you think that Donna Jaggers is lying in her statement, when she states that Craig told her that he and the others were off to meet Mickey the pilot?  If so, why do you think she would ?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #144 on: January 16, 2019, 09:06:58 AM »
Jaggers is referring to a Rav 4.  Nicholls is talking about a Hi-lux.

Steele was often buying/selling/changing vehicles.

But why not make it clear?  I can see Donna Jagger refers to a Blue Rav4 but Nicholls just refers to a red Toyota.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #145 on: January 16, 2019, 09:35:50 AM »
Holly, do you think that Donna Jaggers is lying in her statement, when she states that Craig told her that he and the others were off to meet Mickey the pilot?  If so, why do you think she would ?

Maybe Rolfe was lying? 

Lets assume the murdered trio were due to meet 1 or more of Nicholls, Steele, Whomes it doesn't necessarily follow that any of them had a hand in the murders?  They were partners in crime and socialised together.

The bodies were found on 6th Dec.  Donna Jaggers may well have been one of the last surviving people to speak with Rolfe therefore I'm sure the police would want a detailed WS from her on day 1.  If not, why not?  On 8th Dec she attended a press conference to appeal for info:

https://www.theguardian.com/fromthearchive/story/0,,1715361,00.html

Assuming she told police on day 1 Rolfe was off to meet 'Mickey the pilot' why did it take the police so long to investigate and bring a case against Steele (and Whomes)?  Again another WS where the same person is referred to using a number of different names which is suspicious eg Steele, Michael Steele, Mick, Micky etc

The WS of Donna Jaggers referring to 'Mickey the pilot' is dated 14th March 1996 some 3 months after the event!?

As I explained up thread the timings are way out with Nicholls account.  Based on the accounts of Donna Jaggers and Nicholls the murdered trio would arrive at Rettendon about 7pm and Nicholls, Steele and Whomes about 6pm.  Nicholls did not say anything about having to hang around for an hour.

Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #146 on: January 16, 2019, 10:03:05 AM »
Maybe Rolfe was lying? 

Lets assume the murdered trio were due to meet 1 or more of Nicholls, Steele, Whomes it doesn't necessarily follow that any of them had a hand in the murders?  They were partners in crime and socialised together.

The bodies were found on 6th Dec.  Donna Jaggers may well have been one of the last surviving people to speak with Rolfe therefore I'm sure the police would want a detailed WS from her on day 1.  If not, why not?  On 8th Dec she attended a press conference to appeal for info:

https://www.theguardian.com/fromthearchive/story/0,,1715361,00.html

Assuming she told police on day 1 Rolfe was off to meet 'Mickey the pilot' why did it take the police so long to investigate and bring a case against Steele (and Whomes)?  Again another WS where the same person is referred to using a number of different names which is suspicious eg Steele, Michael Steele, Mick, Micky etc

The WS of Donna Jaggers referring to 'Mickey the pilot' is dated 14th March 1996 some 3 months after the event!?

As I explained up thread the timings are way out with Nicholls account.  Based on the accounts of Donna Jaggers and Nicholls the murdered trio would arrive at Rettendon about 7pm and Nicholls, Steele and Whomes about 6pm.  Nicholls did not say anything about having to hang around for an hour.
I would imagine that Essex Police did speak to Jagger very soon after the murders.  Rather than steam in and make arrests, they targeted Mick in the hope that he would incriminate himself.  In the period between the murders and arrest, Mickey Steele and Whomes were put under surveillance.   Without any forensic evidence, there was nothing to be gained by making premature arrests.  To quote Michael Steele, "they were trying to flush me out". 

The plan worked perfectly.  They were able to catch Nicholls whilst in an extremely vulnerable position.  He was facing years in jail having been caught in possession of the drugs.  There was now a strong incentive for him to turn supergrass.

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #147 on: January 16, 2019, 10:20:18 AM »
What evidence supports Nicholls testimony?

He claims he was working in Sunbury, W. London on 6th Dec and left early afternoon to drive to Essex via the M25 and M11? 

CCTV footage?

He claims there was tel contact in the middle of the day whilst still in Sunbury between himself and Steele who was at or near Colchester.

Tel Records?  How come the prosecution can offer up detailed info about Sarah Saunders call and calls between Whomes and Nicholls but the above is vague?

He claims he arranged to meet with Steele at Marks Tey at 5pm (which included Whomes too).  The onward journey was to the Halfway House, Brentwood.

Where's the evidence for this?  CCTV footage, receipts for fuel?

Bearing in mind the weather produced severe problems by way of traffic and road conditions on that particular day:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AOb7ksC-NJ8

And yet nothing in Nicholls testimony about the weather, traffic and road conditions. 

I'll add to the above when I have time but imo it's a crock of shite.
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline Holly Goodhead

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #148 on: January 16, 2019, 10:23:05 AM »
I would imagine that Essex Police did speak to Jagger very soon after the murders.  Rather than steam in and make arrests, they targeted Mick in the hope that he would incriminate himself.  In the period between the murders and arrest, Mickey Steele and Whomes were put under surveillance.   Without any forensic evidence, there was nothing to be gained by making premature arrests.  To quote Michael Steele, "they were trying to flush me out". 

The plan worked perfectly.  They were able to catch Nicholls whilst in an extremely vulnerable position.  He was facing years in jail having been caught in possession of the drugs.  There was now a strong incentive for him to turn supergrass.

Trying to flush him out for what?  Drug dealing, murders, both?

I don't think EP needed to steam in and make arrests.  They could have tried appealing to Steele's better side by asking him to assist with their enquiries on the basis he had tel contact with Tate eg 'We're talking to everyone who has had recent tel contact with any of the murdered trio and/or known to them, can you help us? 
« Last Edit: January 16, 2019, 10:42:12 AM by Holly Goodhead »
Just my opinion of course but Jeremy Bamber is innocent and a couple from UK, unknown to T9, abducted Madeleine McCann - motive unknown.  Was J J murdered as a result of identifying as a goth?

Offline sika

Re: Could the Rettendon Two be a potential MoJ.
« Reply #149 on: January 16, 2019, 10:49:11 AM »
Trying to flush him out for what?  Drug dealing, murders, both?

I don't think EP needed to steam in and make arrests.  They could have tried appealing to Steele's better side by asking him to assist with their enquiries on the basis he had tel contact with Tate eg 'We're talking to everyone who has had recent tel contact with any of the murdered trio and/or known to them, can you help us?
For both.

I can't be certain that Steele wasn't spoken to by the police in the immediate aftermath of the murders.